ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[TroubleandGrumpy]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I'm not missing the point at all. Hamas cannot destroy Israel, regardless of how much they'd like to, and how much they talk about it. The blunders and failures related to the attack will be addressed - and even so, it came nowhere near to 'destroying' Israel.

Hamas is a threat for Israel, but not an existential one. And it will hopefully be a much lesser threat when the fighting is done.

There was nothing said about putting down weapons in my posts.

Yes you are - completely.

Israel wants peace - Hamas wants death - big difference.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

2 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

Earlier in the Thread Trouble I posted Hamas is like Cancer. the only way to cure a Cancer is to totaly remove it or it will retun again and in the end it will kill you,

Agree 100% - it amazes me that some people will argue anything else. There is opinions and there there is facts.  Israel is no bastion of angels, and in fact no counry or people are, but Hamas is a murdering terrorist organisation who currently controls Gaza (ever since Arafat died).

 

[Celsius]

7 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Israel wants peace - Hamas wants death - big difference.

 

 

They also want KFC

 

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Yes you are - completely.

Israel wants peace - Hamas wants death - big difference.

 

There's this gap between what Hamas might want, and what it can actually do.

I'm saying that when all is said and done, it does not have the capability to destroy Israel.

It is not a threat to Israel's existence.

It's a threat.

 

As for 'wants peace' - everyone defines peace differently. That's one of the problems when talking about this conflict. When Palestinians and Israelis talk about 'peace' they aren't necessarily on the same page. Take it a step further - there are different points of view within each side, different political parties and so on. Each one got it's own version of 'peace'. So saying 'Israel wants peace' isn't clear enough, nor necessarily correct.

 

 

 

 

[freeworld]

21 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Yes you are - completely.

Israel wants peace - Hamas wants death - big difference.

Israel want peace?...LOL

 

How does one manage the peaceful settlers in the occupied west bank?

 

''of international law, established numerous Jewish settlements throughout the West Bank.^[11] The United Nations Security Council has consistently reaffirmed that settlements in that territory are a "flagrant violation of international law", most recently in 2016 with United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334.^[12] The creation and ongoing expansion of the settlements have led to Israel's policies being criticized as an example of settler colonialsm''

Edited November 2, 2023 by freeworld

[BarraMarra]

26 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Actually it was not me who started discussing putin and Russia and recognised that the topic was going off track.

 

I'm well aware it is the thread about Israel is at war topic, it has been stated by me a few times previously.

So don't mention it in this thread then.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

There's this gap between what Hamas might want, and what it can actually do.

I'm saying that when all is said and done, it does not have the capability to destroy Israel.

It is not a threat to Israel's existence.

It's a threat.

 

As for 'wants peace' - everyone defines peace differently. That's one of the problems when talking about this conflict. When Palestinians and Israelis talk about 'peace' they aren't necessarily on the same page. Take it a step further - there are different points of view within each side, different political parties and so on. Each one got it's own version of 'peace'. So saying 'Israel wants peace' isn't clear enough, nor necessarily correct.

I hear what you are saying.  Yes neither 'side' is innocent, but one side wants peace, and the other does not.

How many rockets has Hamas indiscriminantly fired into Israel in the last 20 years? Over 50,000 - with 5,000 as part of this current act of terror. They are aiming at anyone and anything in Israel (Jew or not) - they are not targetting military targets. Iron Dome (Israel anti-rocket defence system, stops about 90% of them). 

How many rockets has Israel indiscriminantly fired into Gaza in the last 10 years?   None.  Yes some during a military strike have 'missed', but they were all aimed at a military and/or terrorist targets.

Israel used to 'occupy' Gaza until as part of a negotiated peace deal they left and handed power to the PLO.  Things were never been 'great' between Israel and PLO - but since Hamas took out the PLO and took over, things have got very bad and after their latest atrtocity Israel has had enough. Israel is going to re-occupy Gaza - and I doubt they will withdraw anytime over the next 5-10 years (maybe longer).

 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I hear what you are saying.  Yes neither 'side' is innocent, but one side wants peace, and the other does not.

How many rockets has Hamas indiscriminantly fired into Israel in the last 20 years? Over 50,000 - with 5,000 as part of this current act of terror. They are aiming at anyone and anything in Israel (Jew or not) - they are not targetting military targets. Iron Dome (Israel anti-rocket defence system, stops about 90% of them). 

How many rockets has Israel indiscriminantly fired into Gaza in the last 10 years?   None.  Yes some during a military strike have 'missed', but they were all aimed at a military and/or terrorist targets.

Israel used to 'occupy' Gaza until as part of a negotiated peace deal they left and handed power to the PLO.  Things were never been 'great' between Israel and PLO - but since Hamas took out the PLO and took over, things have got very bad and after their latest atrtocity Israel has had enough. Israel is going to re-occupy Gaza - and I doubt they will withdraw anytime over the next 5-10 years (maybe longer).

 

 

I'm not sure how your post clarifies what 'peace' (as appeared in the previous one) implies. You are describing typical military actions by sides, how does this relate or explain what 'peace' Israel wants, in you opinon? Something like a constant ceasefire?

 

There was no agreement with the PLO regarding Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. It was a unilateral move.

 

There are not many in Israel that support or wish reoccupation of the Gaza Strip. It's not a very popular notion among the public as well. At most, people and officials recognize that there might be a lengthy period of time with Israeli presence  in the Gaza Strip - but not like the time frame suggested above.

[freeworld]

33 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

So don't mention it in this thread then.

Thats a bit draconian. Are you trying to censor the forum? Did you equally apply your message to others who do not follow your diktat?

Edited November 2, 2023 by freeworld

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, BarraMarra said:

Qatar is happy and looking after the Leader of Hamas and allowing him to issue their toxic ideology to spread around the World. What does this say about Qatar?

 

Indeed, it was ever thus. However, I think Qatar are now coming under some external pressure, from sources that they know they need to take notice of, to distance themselves from Hamas, or at least be seen to be so doing. Turkey is their other hideaway.

[proton]

1 hour ago, BarraMarra said:

Qatar is happy and looking after the Leader of Hamas and allowing him to issue their toxic ideology to spread around the World. What does this say about Qatar?

 

Indeed, we need a boycott Qatar Airways movement, their Q class is rubbish anyway.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, freeworld said:

Israel want peace?...LOL

 

How does one manage the peaceful settlers in the occupied west bank?

 

''of international law, established numerous Jewish settlements throughout the West Bank.^[11] The United Nations Security Council has consistently reaffirmed that settlements in that territory are a "flagrant violation of international law", most recently in 2016 with United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334.^[12] The creation and ongoing expansion of the settlements have led to Israel's policies being criticized as an example of settler colonialsm''

 

Where is the ICC? Over ten years of Israeli war crimes and they've done nothing. Clearly, the ICC are useless, as is the United Nations. 

 

[BarraMarra]

1 hour ago, freeworld said:

Thats a bit draconian. Are you trying to censor the forum? Did you equally apply your message to others who do not follow your diktat?

Stop attempting to disrupt the Thread.

[transam]

1 hour ago, freeworld said:

Israel want peace?...LOL

 

How does one manage the peaceful settlers in the occupied west bank?

 

''of international law, established numerous Jewish settlements throughout the West Bank.^[11] The United Nations Security Council has consistently reaffirmed that settlements in that territory are a "flagrant violation of international law", most recently in 2016 with United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334.^[12] The creation and ongoing expansion of the settlements have led to Israel's policies being criticized as an example of settler colonialsm''

"Most recently in 2016".............😂

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

"Most recently in 2016".............😂

They're working on it, these things take time....

[RanongCat]

Islamic Nations are understandably hostile to Israeli actions as a simplistic  example of religious division. Those same Nations have a weapon to wield that can hurt not only Israel but the global interest in OIL.

If there is a continuation of and escalation of civilian fatalities the threat of using that weapon becomes a reality.

Perhaps in recognition of that even Biden  has changed tune about a ceasefire.

Iran's subversive assistance to various factions is a factor that despite ethnic disparity  the theological unity of those factions represent genuinely serious disruptions.

Gaza has been and is a flash point that has  never had any genuine attempt to "fix" it.

Calls  to "eliminate" a faction such as Hamas is doomed to fail in terms of eradicating extremists or extremist ideals. In the attempt it will generate yet another faction or enhance the profile of an existing one. Within Gaza there are already several that have at times disrupted the intentions  of Hamas. Hezbollah has a more connected and sophisticated capacity that even after  announcing affinity to Hamas has offered limited militaristic response .....as of yet .

The  geo-political frenzy that is undoubtedly going down behind the faux public  screen of humanitarian exposure rather than the brutality behind that screen is a normal feature of political debauchery.

 

 

[simple1]

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The ICC has a current annual budget of about US$185,000,000 and in over twenty years has indicted about 40 individuals and convicted six. 

 

What are they going to do to help resolve the conflict? 

 

 

Content from above post deleted for brevity.

 

I'm well aware of the shortcomings with ICC, just as some should be knowledgeable some of the contributing factors e.g. US does not support the functions of ICC for political reasons. But the ICC is well known and any actions such as investigations and charges for War Crimes do have a global audience. IMO it is very vile ICC is not supported by some governments for nationalistic domestic political consumption.

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

Islamic Nations are understandably hostile to Israeli actions as a simplistic  example of religious division. Those same Nations have a weapon to wield that can hurt not only Israel but the global interest in OIL.

If there is a continuation of and escalation of civilian fatalities the threat of using that weapon becomes a reality.

Perhaps in recognition of that even Biden  has changed tune about a ceasefire.

Iran's subversive assistance to various factions is a factor that despite ethnic disparity  the theological unity of those factions represent genuinely serious disruptions.

Gaza has been and is a flash point that has  never had any genuine attempt to "fix" it.

Calls  to "eliminate" a faction such as Hamas is doomed to fail in terms of eradicating extremists or extremist ideals. In the attempt it will generate yet another faction or enhance the profile of an existing one. Within Gaza there are already several that have at times disrupted the intentions  of Hamas. Hezbollah has a more connected and sophisticated capacity that even after  announcing affinity to Hamas has offered limited militaristic response .....as of yet .

The  geo-political frenzy that is undoubtedly going down behind the faux public  screen of humanitarian exposure rather than the brutality behind that screen is a normal feature of political debauchery.

 

 

Biden said I think we need a pause. Very different from a ceasefire

 

"The White House has refused to call for a cease-fire but has signaled that the Israelis should consider humanitarian pauses to allow civilians to receive aid and for foreign nationals trapped on the strip to leave Gaza."

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-biden-ceasefire-422ed95081e5fe224dd9f0ed7920c4e8

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Content from above post deleted for brevity.

So again, the ICC has a current annual budget of about US$185,000,000 and in over twenty years has indicted about 40 individuals and convicted six. What are they going to do to help resolve the conflict? 

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

I'm well aware of the shortcomings with ICC, just as some should be knowledgeable some of the contributing factors e.g. US does not support the functions of ICC for political reasons.

What might those political reasons be? 

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

But the ICC is well known and any actions such as investigations and charges for War Crimes do have a global audience.

So again, the ICC has a current annual budget of about US$185,000,000 and in over twenty years has indicted about 40 individuals and convicted six. What are they going to do to help resolve the conflict? 

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

IMO it is very vile ICC is not supported by some governments for nationalistic domestic political consumption.

I think all nations should have the best interest of their citizens first. I do not see the ICC benefiting the US in any way, nor do I see how the ICC benefit the US were the US a member state. 

 

If you know how the ICC benefits the US in any way, or how the ICC would benefit the US were the US a member, please enlighten me. 

 

 

[RanongCat]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Biden said I think we need a pause. Very different from a ceasefire

 

"The White House has refused to call for a cease-fire but has signaled that the Israelis should consider humanitarian pauses to allow civilians to receive aid and for foreign nationals trapped on the strip to leave Gaza."

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-biden-ceasefire-422ed95081e5fe224dd9f0ed7920c4e8

His stance  has  changed. 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, RanongCat said:

His stance  has  changed. 

No its not, the quote from his latest statement is in the article I linked to

[RanongCat]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

No its not, the quote from his latest statement is in the article I linked to

You think ?  He has been made  aware his popularity is sinking  like a lead balloon.

If you  spent less time advocating and haranging people who have legit  reason  not to agree, submit, succumb  or whatever  would make you  proud  perhaps  you  would be able to  keep up with the slippery pricks who think they  run the world but  get  instructed by their handlers hour  by hour. You too but as an after thought.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, RanongCat said:

You think ?  He has been made  aware his popularity is sinking  like a lead balloon.

If you  spent less time advocating and haranging people who have legit  reason  not to agree, submit, succumb  or whatever  would make you  proud  perhaps  you  would be able to  keep up with the slippery pricks who think they  run the world but  get  instructed by their handlers hour  by hour. You too but as an after thought.

Know I don't think I know, its in the linked article. Read it

[Yellowtail]

23 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

Islamic Nations are understandably hostile to Israeli actions as a simplistic  example of religious division. Those same Nations have a weapon to wield that can hurt not only Israel but the global interest in OIL.

If there is a continuation of and escalation of civilian fatalities the threat of using that weapon becomes a reality.

Perhaps in recognition of that even Biden  has changed tune about a ceasefire.

I do not disagree Biden is weak, and he's worried about gas prices for the next election, and he has already drained our strategic reserves for the last election, and he has not refilled them, but What Islamic nations? Them cutting off oil is cutting off their revenue. 

23 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

Iran's subversive assistance to various factions is a factor that despite ethnic disparity  the theological unity of those factions represent genuinely serious disruptions.

WTF does this mean? 

23 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

Gaza has been and is a flash point that has  never had any genuine attempt to "fix" it.

I think a lot of people would disagree, 

23 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

Calls  to "eliminate" a faction such as Hamas is doomed to fail in terms of eradicating extremists or extremist ideals. In the attempt it will generate yet another faction or enhance the profile of an existing one. Within Gaza there are already several that have at times disrupted the intentions  of Hamas. Hezbollah has a more connected and sophisticated capacity that even after  announcing affinity to Hamas has offered limited militaristic response .....as of yet .

The  geo-political frenzy that is undoubtedly going down behind the faux public  screen of humanitarian exposure rather than the brutality behind that screen is a normal feature of political debauchery.

Ever thought of proof-reading what you write? 

 

Eradicating extremists will be like eradicating polio. There are still cases of polo every year, but no one is worried about polio. 

 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

You think ?  He has been made  aware his popularity is sinking  like a lead balloon.

If you  spent less time advocating and haranging people who have legit  reason  not to agree, submit, succumb  or whatever  would make you  proud  perhaps  you  would be able to  keep up with the slippery pricks who think they  run the world but  get  instructed by their handlers hour  by hour. You too but as an after thought.

Do you have anything that supports this? I think you are making it up. 

[RanongCat]

32 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I do not disagree Biden is weak, and he's worried about gas prices for the next election, and he has already drained our strategic reserves for the last election, and he has not refilled them, but What Islamic nations? Them cutting off oil is cutting off their revenue. 

WTF does this mean? 

I think a lot of people would disagree, 

Ever thought of proof-reading what you write? 

 

Eradicating extremists will be like eradicating polio. There are still cases of polo every year, but no one is worried about polio. 

 

You  can  disagree  all you  wish. It  does not  make you  correct.

Proof read?  I am not a journalist . Are you an AN  Editor in Chief? <deleted> !

Edited November 2, 2023 by metisdead
Profane acronym removed.

[RanongCat]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you have anything that supports this? I think you are making it up. 

You think?  If you need  question then you have  doubt in support. SMW.

[Bkk Brian]

29 minutes ago, RanongCat said:

You  can  disagree  all you  wish. It  does not  make you  correct.

Proof read?  I am not a journalist . Are you an AN  Editor in Chief? <deleted> !

Yes proof read, its always a good idea, something I should also do more often before I press submit:

 

4. Proofread your post first as poor grammar and spelling can make a post difficult to understand. Posts regarding spelling and grammar can derail a topic and can also appear intolerant and unhelpful.

[RanongCat]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Yes proof read, its always a good idea, something I should also do more often before I press submit:

 

4. Proofread your post first as poor grammar and spelling can make a post difficult to understand. Posts regarding spelling and grammar can derail a topic and can also appear intolerant and unhelpful.

Well done  you !

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, RanongCat said:

You think?  If you need  question then you have  doubt in support. SMW.

I think you're making it up, yes. Do you have anything that supports your claim or not?

 

What the heck does: "If you need  question then you have  doubt in support." mean?