Analysis The Gaza diplomacy of Biden, Sunak and co seems to be heading for failure

[Hanaguma]

1. Considering that Hamas over-estimated the deaths in the fake hospital bombing by a factor of at least 10, we can assume the same about any casualty figures that come out of the so-called 'Palestinian Health Authority'. So they claim 6000 civilian deaths, we can probably safely say the real answer is about 600.

 

2. IF Hamas has enough fuel to keep firing rockets at Israel, why don't they give that fuel to civilians running hospitals and water treatment facilities? 

[JBChiangRai]

19 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

Next to UN buildings, near schools and mosques, close to hospitals.

Then you cannot return fire, you must find another way.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

Then you cannot return fire, you must find another way.

You said: We don’t know where Hamas are sending rockets from, it’s all speculation.

 

I just told you

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Then you cannot return fire, you must find another way.

 

That is your opinion. Legally, it depends on circumstances.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

1. Considering that Hamas over-estimated the deaths in the fake hospital bombing by a factor of at least 10, we can assume the same about any casualty figures that come out of the so-called 'Palestinian Health Authority'. So they claim 6000 civilian deaths, we can probably safely say the real answer is about 600.

 

2. IF Hamas has enough fuel to keep firing rockets at Israel, why don't they give that fuel to civilians running hospitals and water treatment facilities? 

 

The disparity is nowhere as high as you portrayed, but it's still there nevertheless. I am sure that the death toll is in the thousands - but maybe not as high as Hamas claims, and same for divisions like children, women, adults. Note that the figures rarely include a reference as to how many Hamas personnel were killed.

 

The fuel, water and food issues are the same thing. Hamas hunkers down in underground facilities - this would require light, ventilation and so on. Obviously, need to feed its people, take care of wounded etc. So they are bound to have stocks (in part, no doubt stolen from civilian organizations) of the necessary supplies, denied to the populace. Exactly the same way they do not let them ordinary folk take shelter underground.

 

The other thing about the diminishing supplies meme is that if one checks the timeline, warnings that these would run out in a few days were on since the war erupted. The war has been going on for over two weeks now. If the reports were correct, the whole population will be dead of starvation and thirst by now.

[Morch]

37 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

We don’t know where Hamas are sending rockets from, it’s all speculation.

 

I don’t trust “any” news outlet, as I said, I like to read them all and form my own opinion.

 

Generally, I like Al Jazeera, but as you said, you have to look behind the obvious bias, and the same can be said of some of the posters here.

 

 

You keep pushing this 'we don't know' misleading nonsense bit.

There are plenty of clips, plenty of pics, plenty of evidence - and it's not like this is the first time this happened.

You want to disbelieve anything that doesn't fit with your set ideas - that's up to you. But it's not like 'we' don't know.

That's a false narrative.

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Certainly no terrorists among the over 1,500 children killed by israeli bombs on residential areas, some of whom were babies.

 

Don't recall you having that many issues with Israeli children killed or taken hostage by Hamas.

Don't recall you every having a bad word about Hamas leadership instigating this knowing the consequences.

 

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You keep pushing this 'we don't know' misleading nonsense bit.

There are plenty of clips, plenty of pics, plenty of evidence - and it's not like this is the first time this happened.

You want to disbelieve anything that doesn't fit with your set ideas - that's up to you. But it's not like 'we' don't know.

That's a false narrative.

 

 

Yeah, total BS. Even though Gaza is crowded, there are plenty of empty spaces where brave brave Hamas could fire their rockets from, IF they wanted to. Yet they only use crowded areas surrounded by civilians for some reason. 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

All the Hamas could hand themselves over and the israelis would claim that not all had done so and carry on regardless, IMO.

They told those in the north to evacuate to the south and then killed some trying to go south, and started bombing in the south.

The israelis IMO are not to be trusted, and some in the leadership have reportedly said they want a "permanent solution", which IMO means complete destruction of Gaza.

 

IMO it's the israelis that care not an iota for any Palestinian life, having oppressed them for over 30 years.

 

You are lying, again. There was no deceleration of all southern Gaza being a safe zone. There were specific designated areas at the south declared as such. Ample time was given to evacuate. Hamas leadership urged the population to stay put and tried to hinder people from evacuating.

 

Sure, all the Israelis don't care. Guess you missed out all them pro-peace folk that were murdered on the Hamas attack.

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I don't make such allegationss often, only when the shoe fits.

Indeed. The antisemite is used much too often, but it was certainly warranted in his case. 

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Certainly no terrorists among the over 1,500 children killed by israeli bombs on residential areas, some of whom were babies.

And some of whom were 17-year-olds with machine guns. 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

You said: We don’t know where Hamas are sending rockets from, it’s all speculation.

 

I just told you

Because you tell me something, it doesn’t make it so.

 

I suspect you are probably right though.

 

In which case the Israeli Government cannot return fire, they must find another way.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

Because you tell me something, it doesn’t make it so.

 

I suspect you are probably right though.

 

In which case the Israeli Government cannot return fire, they must find another way.

 

 

Well there's plenty of video, image and satellite evidence of them next to the buildings I mention, links all been posted before but I can post some more. 

 

Anyway, of course they can still return fire. I said next to not in the buildings.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

You said: We don’t know where Hamas are sending rockets from, it’s all speculation.

 

I just told you

He's hilarious. 

 

He claims that "we don't know where hamas are sending the rockets from..." which is true, but goes on to claim "...it's all speculation...", which ridiculous at best, and a more likely an out and out lie. 

 

The rockets can be seen by radar, satellite imaging, and with the naked eye. 

 

Anyone claiming Israel is bombing Israel indecisively is a fool, at best. 

 

Anyone claiming Israel want to eradicate the Palestinians or is committing genocide is a fool, at best. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well there's plenty of video, image and satellite evidence of them next to the buildings I mention, links all been posted before but I can post some more. 

 

Anyway, of course they can still return fire. I said next to not in the buildings.

He does not care. If a hundred Jews have to die to save one Palestinian, he's all for it.

 

 

[billd766]

On 10/23/2023 at 7:25 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

38 trucks does not make a success. Apparently 100 trucks a DAY are needed to go in.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/22/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news

The United Nations said 14 more trucks carried aid into the enclave late Sunday as escalating clashes on Israel’s border with Lebanon and violence in the occupied West Bank raised fears the conflict could spill over.

But it is a start of relief convoys.

 

Does anybody know which country blocked the convoys?

 

Israel, Egypt or Palestinian/Gaza/Hamas?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Because you tell me something, it doesn’t make it so.

 

I suspect you are probably right though.

 

In which case the Israeli Government cannot return fire, they must find another way.

 

 

 

There's plenty of information out there. If you think it's all untrustworthy, all propaganda, than stay in the warm safety of Al Jazeera echo chamber. By all means.

 

Your second comment is incorrect. There is no such blanket restriction.

[Morch]

51 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But it is a start of relief convoys.

 

Does anybody know which country blocked the convoys?

 

Israel, Egypt or Palestinian/Gaza/Hamas?

 

Did Hamas ask for international aid? Did Hamas ask for a ceasefire?

[JBChiangRai]

28 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

There's plenty of information out there. If you think it's all untrustworthy, all propaganda, than stay in the warm safety of Al Jazeera echo chamber. By all means.

 

Your second comment is incorrect. There is no such blanket restriction.

Common sense and humanity mandates such a restriction.

 

I am detecting extreme bias on your side and very little humanity towards the Palestinians, I wonder if you are Israeli?  You are certainly a Zealot.  I am a British Atheist.

 

There is lots of misinformation on both sides.  I don’t trust anything coming out of Gaza or Israel, but I do believe innocent Palestinians are dying in the thousands and the motive for this is impure and represents collective punishment.

 

 

[Hanaguma]

14 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Common sense and humanity mandates such a restriction.

 

I am detecting extreme bias on your side and very little humanity towards the Palestinians, I wonder if you are Israeli?  You are certainly a Zealot.  I am a British Atheist.

 

There is lots of misinformation on both sides.  I don’t trust anything coming out of Gaza or Israel, but I do believe innocent Palestinians are dying in the thousands and the motive for this is impure and represents collective punishment.

 

 

How is the punishment "collective" when it is targeted exclusively at locations where terrorist and terrorist equipment is located? 

 

Bombs are expensive. No way the Israelis are going to throw them around indiscriminately.

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Common sense and humanity mandates such a restriction.

 

I am detecting extreme bias on your side and very little humanity towards the Palestinians, I wonder if you are Israeli?  You are certainly a Zealot.  I am a British Atheist.

 

There is lots of misinformation on both sides.  I don’t trust anything coming out of Gaza or Israel, but I do believe innocent Palestinians are dying in the thousands and the motive for this is impure and represents collective punishment.

 

 

 

Alas, international laws regulating such things are less straightforward than what some imagine. It's fine wishing they were different, more in lines with ideals etc. but it is what it is.

 

I don't care one bit about your nationality, or your religious beliefs. I do not believe that either is central to posting on this forum. I'm reacting to words people right, ideas they bring forth, not to which passports they hold, who they pray to, or what flag they wave.

 

Zealot how? Did I call for the utter destruction of the Gaza Strip? Butchering all Palestinians? Mass expulsions to the Sinai Peninsula? No. None of that. You're welcome to look up any of the many posts recently made regarding Netanyahu - not a fan. Am I a great defender of Israel's illegal settlements effort in the West Bank? Other Israeli actions there? Quite the opposite.

 

And yeah, I don't do emo much. Not on online forums anyway. Sorry if it bothers you I'm not a drama queen, or a rager.

 

What I detect coming from you is a lot of waffle, and an extra dose of virtue signaling. Not much interest in either. 

 

It was explained, over and over again how your choice source of information is problematic with regard to current events. You have no answer to this other than repeating irrelevant deflections.

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Alas, international laws regulating such things are less straightforward than what some imagine. It's fine wishing they were different, more in lines with ideals etc. but it is what it is.

 

I don't care one bit about your nationality, or your religious beliefs. I do not believe that either is central to posting on this forum. I'm reacting to words people right, ideas they bring forth, not to which passports they hold, who they pray to, or what flag they wave.

 

Zealot how? Did I call for the utter destruction of the Gaza Strip? Butchering all Palestinians? Mass expulsions to the Sinai Peninsula? No. None of that. You're welcome to look up any of the many posts recently made regarding Netanyahu - not a fan. Am I a great defender of Israel's illegal settlements effort in the West Bank? Other Israeli actions there? Quite the opposite.

 

And yeah, I don't do emo much. Not on online forums anyway. Sorry if it bothers you I'm not a drama queen, or a rager.

 

What I detect coming from you is a lot of waffle, and an extra dose of virtue signaling. Not much interest in either. 

 

It was explained, over and over again how your choice source of information is problematic with regard to current events. You have no answer to this other than repeating irrelevant deflections.

Pretty much what I expected.

[JBChiangRai]

15 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

How is the punishment "collective" when it is targeted exclusively at locations where terrorist and terrorist equipment is located? 

 

Bombs are expensive. No way the Israelis are going to throw them around indiscriminately.

I don’t believe it is targeted as you say.

[Yellowtail]

17 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Common sense and humanity mandates such a restriction.

It is only common sense and humanity to people that run no risk of suffering the consequences of their ideology. It's easy for people like you to claim the moral high ground and state you condemn both sides and claim you want the killing on both sides to stop. You want to tell the same lies over and over about indiscriminate bombing and collective punishment and war crimes, but for the family and loved ones of the people that will/would/are killed having to go door to door looking for terrorists it's a little more complicated. 

 

 

17 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I am detecting extreme bias on your side and very little humanity towards the Palestinians, I wonder if you are Israeli?  You are certainly a Zealot.  I am a British Atheist.

That explains a lot, including your inability to see your own extreme bias, lack of humanity towards the Israelis and your fanaticism, 

17 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

There is lots of misinformation on both sides.  I don’t trust anything coming out of Gaza or Israel, but I do believe innocent Palestinians are dying in the thousands and the motive for this is impure and represents collective punishment.

If you don't trust anything coming out of Gaza or Israel, how is it you believe what you do? 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I don’t believe it is targeted as you say.

Why do you not believe that? 

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Pretty much what I expected.

Wow, that was weak. 

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why do you not believe that? 

I can handle this one... because it doesn't fit their pre-conceived narrative of Israel being the bad guy. 

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Pretty much what I expected.

 

Happy to oblige. Now run along and see what's new on Al Jazeera.

[JBChiangRai]

I am sorry some of you see my humanity in asking for the massacre of innocent Palestinians to stop as being wrong.

 

I am disgusted you think it is ok for the Israeli Gov’t to target schools and homes because they believe Hamas launched rockets from them.

 

There has to be a better way.

 

The Israel & Palestine director of Human Rights Watch told President Biden the death toll is probably accurate.

 

 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I am sorry some of you see my humanity in asking for the massacre of innocent Palestinians to stop as being wrong.

 

I am disgusted you think it is ok for the Israeli Gov’t to target schools and homes because they believe Hamas launched rockets from them.

 

There has to be a better way.

 

The Israel & Palestine director of Human Rights Watch told President Biden the death toll is probably accurate.

 

 

Think you are twisting the facts to suit you, you do the same with EV rides.........🤗