OPINION: “I’m a pooyai!” – The dilemma of “respect” in Thai culture

[webfact]

 

Showing respect for adults and the elderly, collectively known in Thai as “pooyai” (ผู้ใหญ่), is a cultural norm in Thailand, which is widely perceived as a virtue. While abuse of power is, however, becoming increasingly common, from boasting about their seniority and abusing youngsters to expecting special privileges, Thai people have found themselves rethinking how respect should really be perceived.

 

“Pooyai” also refers to people in positions of power and “influential figures” in their communities.

 

Therefore, how has this “always-respect-the-pooyai” belief allowed certain people to mistreat whoever they want? How often are our values compromised because pooyais “are always right”?

 

Most importantly, is it wrong to have no respect for pooyais who treat us badly? Or is it because Thais have been teaching “respect” the wrong way?

 

What does “respect” mean to Thais?

 

Universally, respect is respect, regardless of who you are and where you are from, but “respect” in Thai culture is somehow different.

 

There are several words in the Thai language used to describe respect. The most common is “Kao-rob” (เคารพ) which means to respect someone, such as respecting the elderly or paying respects to the national anthem or a religion. Other words include “Nub-tue” (นับถือ) which means to have huge respect for someone, while “Nob-norm” (นอบน้อม) means to respect someone with a humble attitude, especially when you consider yourself inferior to the other person to whom you are speaking.

 

By Nad Bunnag, Thai PBS World

 

Full story: Thai PBS 2023-10-23

 

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[jippytum]

Respect should be earned by individuals in buisiness and politics  not inherited by siblings of wealthy and influential  families

[Don Chance]

This is another version of the caste system. As a farang you have no caste or a very low caste.

[HaoleBoy]

This is what led to the junta Senators telling Thai people what is right / wrong.  Just a bunch of pompous *ss pooyais.  Many royalists (far right) fall into this category too.

 

The Move Forward Party may have tried to move past this, but were chopped at the knees by the Elite and Military.

[2baht]

Face, the downfall of modern local society!

[sidneybear]

There's nothing wrong with respecting people who have more life experience. They're not always right, but they're more often right than the young folks. 

 

This article was obviously written by someone who is trying to replace charming Thai culture with the ghastly lefty western kind. Lefties hate the old, because they remember better times.

[Ben Zioner]

Thais respect establishment, status wealth and appearance. 

 

Life, love, achievement, talent, wisdom, beauty..  they don't have a clue.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Ben Zioner

[Nicholas Paul KNIGHT]

Respect has to be earned, years ago when in the military, you respected the Rank but sometimes NOT the holder. Same here in Thailand teachers, POLICE ETC DEMAND REspect, well from my point of view they do not get it, I am always polite but never submissive or fawning .

 

That may lead to a problem but remaining politely distant is a way of dealing with that. THIS CULTURE IS changing but oh so slow as those who used to get respect automatically no longer receive the sam e reverence and they do not like it . I find ignoring them ios the best way to deal with them. 

[ikke1959]

It is soo 19t century... People are being brainwashed from kids that pooyai knows everything and should be listen to. It creates problems as the pooyai's think they have power and can do whatever they want as they are protected by the idea that they are are higher than other people.. The whole system should be reviewed and be abolished.. Respect must be earned.. and people have to work for it and show that they are worthy in their behavior to be respected, not what several people are doing now because they are so called more than others. 

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

While abuse of power is, however, becoming increasingly common, from boasting about their seniority and abusing youngsters to expecting special privileges, Thai people have found themselves rethinking how respect should really be perceived.

It's first indoctrinated at school, then perpetuated throughout  adulthood.

[Walker88]

29 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

There's nothing wrong with respecting people who have more life experience. They're not always right, but they're more often right than the young folks. 

 

This article was obviously written by someone who is trying to replace charming Thai culture with the ghastly lefty western kind. Lefties hate the old, because they remember better times.

OK, Boomer trumper

[Tropicalevo]

1 hour ago, Don Chance said:

This is another version of the caste system. As a farang you have no caste or a very low caste.

As a farang, you automatically have respect until you show that you do not deserve it.

[nobodysfriend]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Universally, respect is respect, regardless of who you are and where you are from, but “respect” in Thai culture is somehow different.

Respect is something that has to be earned .

It cannot be bought or inherited .

 

Btw , ' pooyai ' does not mean big s-hit , does it ...?

[dinsdale]

Respect is one thing but absolutute subserviance is another. "I am higher than you so you cannot or will not disrespect or challenge my word." Society is not a military organisation but Thais think that 'orders' must be complied with. Saving or losing face is something I will never understand and will never like. I think it rubbish.

[bamnutsak]

15 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Respect is something that has to be earned .

It cannot be bought or inherited .

You do realize how Monarchs are chosen, right?

 

The fake nature of "Respect" here, and it's all for show, and its abuse, is part of the Thai social contract.

 

Without it, society would collapse. At least that's what the the folks near the top of the pyramid want you to beleieve.

 

 

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, Nicholas Paul KNIGHT said:

THIS CULTURE IS changing but oh so slow as those who used to get respect automatically no longer receive the sam e reverence and they do not like it .

Yes it is changing. The young have found alternative sources of information and no longer accept without question what their elders and betters tell them. They are able to discern the corruption behind much of what they are told is the "good way". They are cautiously feeling their way towards making their views felt.

 

Yes the change is slow, but such changes in attitude have a habit, when the right stimulai are applied, of increasing rapidly - look at the astonishing growth of the progressive political faction in the last few years.

 

I think it is a (relatively slow), insidious and largely peaceful revolution, social rather than overtly political, in Thai society. Because it is independent of the channels controlled by the establishment - the Poo Yais - it is beyond their control. A positive thing.

 

I hope "Kao-rob" remains as a defining concept in this society, "born to rule" as a defining concept can go.

Edited October 23, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[djayz]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

they're more often right than the young folks. 

If  you say so "poo" yai.

[cracker1]

1 hour ago, Nicholas Paul KNIGHT said:

Respect has to be earned, years ago when in the military, you respected the Rank but sometimes NOT the holder. Same here in Thailand teachers, POLICE ETC DEMAND REspect, well from my point of view they do not get it, I am always polite but never submissive or fawning .

 

That may lead to a problem but remaining politely distant is a way of dealing with that. THIS CULTURE IS changing but oh so slow as those who used to get respect automatically no longer receive the sam e reverence and they do not like it . I find ignoring them ios the best way to deal with them. 

I wonder if Thai people do respect POLICE and other Thai Government workers who they all know are so corrupt and often use their position to their own advantage ? 

[jacko45k]

Just now, cracker1 said:

I wonder if Thai people do respect POLICE and other Thai Government workers who they all know are so corrupt and often use their position to their own advantage ? 

Certainly not in my experience.

[sidneybear]

8 minutes ago, djayz said:

If  you say so "poo" yai.

Rudeness doesn't add anything to a sensible debate. It just shows that you have nothing to add, but want to make some pointless noise anyway. 

[gamb00ler]

Shouldn't this thread bear the title: Stereotype Cacophony?

 

Just sayin'.

[sidneybear]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

OK, Boomer trumper

OK, gerontophobic bigot. And I loathe Trump as much as you do.

[FruitPudding]

So, they are calling themselves "big sh*ts"?

 

The comedy writes itself here, haha. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by FruitPudding

[Tropposurfer]

2 hours ago, sidneybear said:

There's nothing wrong with respecting people who have more life experience. They're not always right, but they're more often right than the young folks. 

 

This article was obviously written by someone who is trying to replace charming Thai culture with the ghastly lefty western kind. Lefties hate the old, because they remember better times.

the first sentence has some merit. The second is a generalised, bigoted, ignorant crock of ....

[Tropposurfer]

In some sectors of cultures (Indian) its the essence of our humanity or as in Yoga 'Prana' (which we all carry) that is honoured by waiing or as the Indians describe the actions of the hands together, being still, a gentle bow of the head 'namaste' far above longevity.

 

Its an interesting phenomena in LOS to see the cultural notions of wai and youth and the aged, and the fusion of this with economic and caste class wealth status/power dynamics and imperatives.

 

I would suggest it's also true that wealth, and age are not harbingers of insight nor wisdom.

 

I try, but fail at it a lot, to respect the essence of others as taught in Yoga, hence my working at greeting all others with namaste, including falangs. My fundamental practice of working at respecting others has been informed by this, Buddhist, and Gestalt therapy learning.

I find namaste a wonderful spiritual, calming, centring key to support my awareness of how I am no greater than, yet a vital part of the whole, just as you are. What others think of this is inconsequential really it is my intent that is significant.

 

I actually use this towards nature as it lays before me in such beautiful a way. I do this as an action to calm and empty my mind before, and as I move around playing golf. I usually hit the ball well after doing so by the way 😊👍

 

As a zeitgeist figural note I would suggest that many 18 year olds are far more mature than Donald Trump as an example of the age and maturity wisdom hypothesis. 

[Andre0720]

Starts with how children are raised.

They MUST 'wai' at elders when they meet.

And this forced show of respect comes with a price. The kids are taught that they are less worthy than elders. And when these kids get older, they rebel, wanting to show that they have had enough of that. Wanting to show that they are already 'adults', but without having had been taught about what being an adult means. And they end up being kids in adult bodies, without control over their emotions.

The 'wai', oh, is that how parents make their children 'lose face' in front of adults? If this is so, it could explain why young adults would prefer to stab someone else, rather than having to lose face again... Could be...

 

Respect in adult life here is made for people who they fear, who have a higher rank, mainly. The deep "wai" by a sergeant towards a captain, that deep sign of respect, towards a person who uses his authority to obtain money from corruption, and who does none of the duties being paid for, how can anyone explain that? How can anyone have respect for that???

For others, all that is left are expressions of selfishness. These people do not care at all about others. They will drive the way they want, not caring at all about possible dangers created to others, they will stop anywhere on a main road, blocking traffic, just to go buy something, not caring a bit about the dangers created to others. And the list goes on....

The notion of "The liberty of one citizen ends where the liberty of another citizen begins,", well, they are clueless about that.

Anyone who finds beauty in the culture here, is still looking straight inside a travel book to obtain information..

[cowellandrew]

Our last po yai ban was unfortunately killed in a motorcycle accident with a cement truck I thought it was an accident until I was told after being knocked off his motorbike the truck then reversed over him,

[JimTripper]

4 hours ago, Don Chance said:

This is another version of the caste system. As a farang you have no caste or a very low caste.

At very superficial level.

 

Respect is much deeper, conveyed by voice tone, body language, dress, mannerisms...it's not all ethnicity.

[Chris Daley]

It works well.  In England we won't have this and the country is a <deleted>heap.

[Bangkok Barry]

3 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

It is soo 19t century... People are being brainwashed from kids that pooyai knows everything and should be listen to. It creates problems as the pooyai's think they have power and can do whatever they want as they are protected by the idea that they are are higher than other people.. The whole system should be reviewed and be abolished.. Respect must be earned.. and people have to work for it and show that they are worthy in their behavior to be respected, not what several people are doing now because they are so called more than others. 

Exactly.