Overstayer Busted at Airport

[Lemsta69]

3 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Simple answer is don’t overstay 

 

But he already did so your "advice" is pointless. What is it that the Poms say, as useful as a chocolate fire-guard?

[VBF]

11 hours ago, ezzra said:

Many of the over stayers must think that Thailand is a backward, third world country that no one will notice their overstaying, oh, how surly wrong they are....

Indeed - 20-25 years ago, they would have been correct in that assumption.

Many people I knew lived in Thailand on 30 day border hops or constant TVs.

Even if you wanted a visa for a long "holiday", several UK consulates were handing out Non-IMM "O" with very few questions for extended tourism - I had several myself over the years!

 

But the rules have changed and the technology "improved" - such is life.

[PJ71]

1 hour ago, Lemsta69 said:

 

But he already did so your "advice" is pointless. What is it that the Poms say, as useful as a chocolate fire-guard?

Or Tea Pot.

[scorecard]

23 hours ago, swerve said:

I don't know how Thai Immigration catches deportees when they pull a fast one, and try to return early.  Like with a name change passport.  But, they do catch many of them and it doesn't go well.  Maybe your friend doesn't need to be in Thailand.  There are other warm countries he can go to and wait out his 5 year ban should he wish to return.

 

Seems to me that there is a system which identifies arrials who are on a new passport and automatically links them to the previous in / out history.

 

And there would be asystem which auto matically identiies people who have entered / depated previously using a different name.

 

Surely every country has systems to prevent criminals / folks who have changed their name and received a new passport from easily entering any country.

 

Surely a basic serious responsibility of all gov't's to protect the safety of it's citizens.

 

 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, VBF said:

Indeed - 20-25 years ago, they would have been correct in that assumption.

Many people I knew lived in Thailand on 30 day border hops or constant TVs.

 

When I first arrived in 2011, there were some guys who simply paid the 20,000 baht maximum overstay fine every Christmas to visit the family back home and flew right back to Thailand after the first of the year.  $600 once a year was cheaper and more convenient than 12 land border jumps (which was also legal back then, unlike the 2 a year limit today).  Seems like it was right after the coup that all ended.  I ended up buying a couple of bicycles, 2 scooters, a pickup truck and a kayak, all on Bahtsold from expats who had to leave when their particular loophole slammed shut.

Edited November 11, 2023 by impulse

[darrendsd]

On 11/10/2023 at 6:14 PM, Deserted said:

I've told him already he may be able to sneak out with fake stamps and whatnot but won't be able to sneak back in. I thought that was the case all along but never really said anything until he started telling me all he has to do is pay a 20k fine and that's it

 

 

How would he be able to sneak out with fake stamps? You don't get a exit stamp until you leave the country

 

Immigration will soon see his entry stamp from 3 years ago and see he is on overstay 

[Deserted]

3 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

How would he be able to sneak out with fake stamps? You don't get a exit stamp until you leave the country

 

Immigration will soon see his entry stamp from 3 years ago and see he is on overstay 

15-20 years ago there were even makeshift offices in Aranyaprathet that offered such services. Many did it back then, I am not so sure now though. It used to be on the Khmer side they would just check for exit stamp before stamping you in, it was a lot more open than it is now. 

[oxo1947]

I have not done a border crossing for some years---do they do the Bio / finger print etc when you do that. Is it the same as at Airports.

[Deserted]

20 hours ago, vangrop said:

why do you care, is  that your problem? Better for health to not put your nose in others...

We've known each other for almost 20 years and worked together a few times. It's the first time I've seen him lose control of his own situation before and he seems to think it's no big issue. It helps if I know how things stand myself in case this comes up in conversation again.  

[Caldera]

33 minutes ago, oxo1947 said:

I have not done a border crossing for some years---do they do the Bio / finger print etc when you do that. Is it the same as at Airports.

 

Yes, nowadays they use exactly the same system including the biometrics. 

[PJ71]

1 minute ago, Caldera said:

 

Yes, nowadays they use exactly the same system including the biometrics. 

at land borders?

[Caldera]

Just now, PJ71 said:

at land borders?

 

Yes, they take your picture and fingerprints at land borders, too.

[PJ71]

19 minutes ago, Caldera said:

 

Yes, they take your picture and fingerprints at land borders, too.

since when?

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

since when?

The Automated Biometric Identification System (ABIS), provided by DERMALOG, has been in operation since May 2019.

https://futureiot.tech/thailand-fortifies-border-control-with-biometric-system/

[ericthai]

On 11/10/2023 at 5:53 AM, treetops said:

He could get it overseas (it's easy to get out unnoticed) so the entry stamp point is moot, but he would almost certainly not get back in, even with a new passport.

it might be easy to get out of Thailand unnoticed but then what? The country you entered into you didn't enter legally so you'll have issues there too. 

 

OP Sorry to say but your friend has no real options other than remain in Thailand until he's caught which could mean a lifetime ban or deal with things now so he can return in the future. 

 

The days that an IO would careless and joke about an overstay are long gone. 

[rattlesnake]

12 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Simple answer is don’t overstay 

 

Simple answer is don't take the p*ss, as this guy has.

[rattlesnake]

43 minutes ago, ericthai said:

it might be easy to get out of Thailand unnoticed but then what? The country you entered into you didn't enter legally so you'll have issues there too. 

 

OP Sorry to say but your friend has no real options other than remain in Thailand until he's caught which could mean a lifetime ban or deal with things now so he can return in the future. 

 

The days that an IO would careless and joke about an overstay are long gone. 

 

If it was me, I would contact multiple lawyers and agents and let them know that I am willing to pay the price for this to go away. With a bit of luck, one of them will know someone who can "sort it out". I would not expect it to be cheap though, possibly over 100k.

 

In any case, they would probably be able to organise his exit in the less painful way possible, maybe with no detention, etc.

[BritTim]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

In any case, they would probably be able to organise his exit in the less painful way possible, maybe with no detention, etc.

 

Leaving with no detention is not difficult. The hard part is being able to come back/

[rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

 

Leaving with no detention is not difficult. The hard part is being able to come back/

 

It wasn't, but seems to be now, if Phuket is doing it, one can reasonably expect other airports to follow suit.

[BritTim]

4 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

It wasn't, but seems to be now, if Phuket is doing it, one can reasonably expect other airports to follow suit.

 

The most detailed report of a detention at Phuket airport was for someone detained at the departure gate. If leaving on an international flight, that would presumably mean that he had passed through Immigration, paying the fine for the overstay, and receiving the ban from returning to Thailand. You cannot get airside in the international area without doing this. To subsequently arrest someone at the departure gate after that would seem unreasonable. In this specific case (and probably others) the actual circumstances must be different. Perhaps, they were taking a domestic flight and were caught by some kind of facial recognition system for criminal activity. Maybe, immigration officials were checking the passports of those taking domestic flights. At this stage, I am not ready to conclude that leaving on an international flight will send you to the Immigration Detention Centre.

[rattlesnake]

8 minutes ago, BritTim said:

 

The most detailed report of a detention at Phuket airport was for someone detained at the departure gate. If leaving on an international flight, that would presumably mean that he had passed through Immigration, paying the fine for the overstay, and receiving the ban from returning to Thailand. You cannot get airside in the international area without doing this. To subsequently arrest someone at the departure gate after that would seem unreasonable. In this specific case (and probably others) the actual circumstances must be different. Perhaps, they were taking a domestic flight and were caught by some kind of facial recognition system for criminal activity. Maybe, immigration officials were checking the passports of those taking domestic flights. At this stage, I am not ready to conclude that leaving on an international flight will send you to the Immigration Detention Centre.

 

In both recent cases, the individuals were arrested in the Phuket airport departure hall (for one of them, it is specified that it was the international one) by the immigration police. My first thought is that they must prefer to arrest them there than at a previous stage, possibly to avoid delays or cause a stir, or maybe to give them time to alert and deploy the appropriate team (I doubt the guy stamping passports in his booth can just step out and arrest a guy). And once you're in the departure hall, it's not like you're going anywhere so it's probably more convenient to make arrests there.

 

Hopefully there will be more details about this, but I don't see why it would just be a Phuket thing.

[FritsSikkink]

On 11/10/2023 at 5:24 PM, Deserted said:

 

That's what I thought all along. He stopped trying when Covid came and hasn't attended to it since. But how they gonna know if he reports his passport as lost and gets a new one. They won't have the new one in the system and he should be okay right?

No, you won't be ok.

[CANSIAM]

10 hours ago, Deserted said:

We've known each other for almost 20 years and worked together a few times. It's the first time I've seen him lose control of his own situation before and he seems to think it's no big issue. It helps if I know how things stand myself in case this comes up in conversation again.  

Put this possible 'fix' fake exit stamps to rest, he's in enough trouble already, when he leaves ASAP he can return in 2028 sometime.... 

[The Fugitive]

8 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

If it was me, I would contact multiple lawyers and agents and let them know that I am willing to pay the price for this to go away. With a bit of luck, one of them will know someone who can "sort it out". I would not expect it to be cheap though, possibly over 100k.

 

In any case, they would probably be able to organise his exit in the less painful way possible, maybe with no detention, etc.

Top suggestion! Need to contact someone on the 'inside'. Visa agents, fixers and lawyers will know who to contact.

[Freddy42OZ]

On 11/10/2023 at 5:28 PM, Deserted said:

Oh yes, fingerprints, forgot that. Oh dear, he is in trouble then.

 

In the movies you can get fake fingerprints that you stick on 

[bbi1]

On 11/10/2023 at 5:35 PM, Deserted said:

I told him that but because he has a wife here he kinda sees Bangkok as home. There must be ways to get out of the country, fake stamps at the border and so on. I think he could get out if he put his mind to it but I am not sure he could get back in though.

Your friend is an idiot. Full stop. Time to get a new friend who has a few more brain cells than him.

[Neeranam]

On 11/10/2023 at 3:46 PM, youreavinalaff said:

Don't overstay. 

 

Simple.

It's not rocket science. 

[007 RED]

Looking back at this thread, I see that a couple of members have suggested that the airline check-in staff may well have ‘tipped off’ immigration.

 

Personally, I very much doubt it as the check-in staff neither have the time to sift through the passport looking at each visa stamp, or the training to be able to identify if the passenger is on overstay.

 

That said, when checking in an international passenger the airline’s computer system will advise the check-in staff if a visa is required by the passenger for their destination country and the check-in staff must check that the passenger has the necessary visa.  Failure to ensure that the passenger has the necessary visa will result in the passenger being refused entry by the destination country and the airline being fined and having to bear the cost of returning the passenger to their original point of departure.

 

So how did immigration know that the individual was on overstay?

 

When the international passenger checked-in, his/her biographical details (Name; DoB; Passport No; etc) will have been entered into the airlines computer system.  The airlines computer system automatically feeds the passenger’s biographical data into the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS). 

 

The APIS sends the international passenger’s biographical data to the destination country where various agencies such as police and immigration will determine if the passenger should be allowed to travel to their country.  The APIS will subsequently send the airline a code indicating that the passenger can board the flight or a code which tells the airline not to board the passenger.  The system does not give the airline a reason for a do not board instruction.

 

As well as sending the international passenger’s biographical data to the destination country, the APIS also send the passengers biographical data to the departing country’s police/immigration etc so that they can check if the person is wanted for any reason.

 

I suspect that some bright ‘student’ has recently written a simple query programme that allows immigration to check the visa type and issue date and determine if that the passenger is on overstay.  It is possible that some form of alert is sent to the airport immigration office.

 

A quick look at the CCTV of the airline's check-in counters and route to the departure entrance will easily identify the individual who will be stopped prior to getting to immigration departure desk.

 

At present the reports indicate that this has only happened at Phuket, I suspect, however, that if this is successful as it has been in a couple of reported instances immigration may well introduce this facility at other international departure airports.  Watch this space.   So overstayers may well face being picked up at the airport prior to getting anywhere near to immigration and paying their fine in the future.

[geisha]

20 hours ago, Deserted said:

We've known each other for almost 20 years and worked together a few times. It's the first time I've seen him lose control of his own situation before and he seems to think it's no big issue. It helps if I know how things stand myself in case this comes up in conversation again.  

The longer he leaves this the more he is in danger of getting caught out and jailed. Then the big misery begins in detention, which apparently is not a bundle of fun according to quite a few stories on here ! He could be kept for god knows how long, and the cost of getting out , the stress  , the flight etc would be huge. I seriously doubt going the illegal way as some have reported is a good idea. Probably costs a lot, and if he got caught out then what ?
i suppose only serious criminals go down that road . 

[Deserted]

3 hours ago, geisha said:

The longer he leaves this the more he is in danger of getting caught out and jailed. Then the big misery begins in detention, which apparently is not a bundle of fun according to quite a few stories on here ! He could be kept for god knows how long, and the cost of getting out , the stress  , the flight etc would be huge. I seriously doubt going the illegal way as some have reported is a good idea. Probably costs a lot, and if he got caught out then what ?
i suppose only serious criminals go down that road . 

Yes I think you are right.