Thailand ranks bottom of the pile with ASEAN English score

[Balance]

19 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

3rd world education systems do not produce many successful people or a bright future for its people.  

 

The educational system will not be improved until the country returns to a democratic path. Educated people have more sources of information. They can google, USING ENGLISH, what is happening in other countries, and they quickly learn that knowledge is power.  

 

I have spoken to several students in private schools who are headed for a university.  When I ask them what they want to do after finishing, they often tell me they will move to another country to work.  When I ask why, they respond that there are no opportunities in Thailand, adding that it depends on what family you come from. 

[metisdead]

Some posts contravening our Community Standards have been removed.

[Sig]

4 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

Because native English teachers in Thailand are mostly sex tourists.

 

That's one hell of a load of male cattle dung.

[Walker88]

The same issue comes up here as it did, sort of, in the YouTube post about how to avoid bad relationships in Thailand.

 

There is an elite in Thailand for whom things work quite well. The 1% who control 75% of the wealth in Thailand have precious little incentive to change things. They teach myths that keep the vast majority of Thai people in line and useful to the elite. Better educated Thais might actually vote out the entrenched elite and push the elite away from the public trough that has served the elite so well. The hand-picked Senate did its job as intended when Move Forward won a plurality, guaranteeing no change for the foreseeable future.

 

Better education---including English language skill---could be achieved in a generation if anyone in a position of authority actually had that as a goal. It's even likely the pie would get bigger, and although the elite would get a smaller percent of that pie, it might be more than they currently get. Since that isn't certain, no need to take chances. Keep the populace immersed in the myths, and keep them as uneducated as need be for the elite to maintain that 75% control.

[goldenbrwn1]

6 hours ago, 2baht said:

At least they don't butcher it like the Poms " I was sat 'ere, E was stood vere  and I said nope, prolly innit"! 

Says an Aussie hahahahahaha you couldn’t  make that one up mate 👍

Edited November 28, 2023 by goldenbrwn1

[newbee2022]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

As an American native, I realize that most native born Americans are not bi-lingual nor  do they want to spend the time learning a foreign language.  US govt agencies cannot even fill their

vacant billets for foreign language speaking Americans

That's true and a shame. In EU it's a must in highschool to chose at least 2 foreign languages. I got 9 years Latin plus English (living in Ireland half of my life), but later was able to learn Italian and Spanish language easily.

[Presnock]

Based on other problems that they have faced over the years and what they did, they invited "expert" from the developed countries - Japan, US, EU or Singapore even to see if there was a fix that could be done locally.  Seems that they couldn't agree with the experts as it might cost too much or too advanced for the locals to accept such a drastic change.  I would imagine now though that the elite folks would be tired of having an official language (English) that so many citizens cannot comprehend let alone speak, read and write.  There are many organizations that have contacts willing to assist the Thais - I would

imagine that with so many students opting to go overseas, it might impact the number of schools tutoring or sole teaching English so that the students can apply for foreign universities.   I would think that the public would want their children to get properly trained in English in any case but just too many continue to accept longer hours and too many hours spent in religious, local customs, animist beliefs, regional and ethnic and cultural practices rule over regular academic subjects.  In addition to regular holidays, the Thai govt likes to add a weekday to a weekend to extend some holidays.  Stats can be googled if one is interested in seeing how Thailand stacks up against other countries.  Literacy rating is high but after 15 years of age or so, it seems the youth are disengaged from the work force and are unemployed. Over 50% of Thai students want to study abroad - knowing that is one of the only ways to get ahead locally.  Mostly, the stats show Thailand to be in the middle half for many different areas.  But, stats can sometimes be interpreted in different ways to benefit certain groups and I think that happens here as it would be naturaly for parents to want the best for their child but TIT so it only works for some. Good luck for sure...we were lucky, finding a school like Chiang Mai International School - made our daughter wanting to actually go to school every day!  Making learning fun and beneficial for the future!

 

[herfiehandbag]

4 hours ago, alex8912 said:

She understood your cheddar cheese story? 
Hmmm

Yes she did. You "grade" the language, so it is fairly straightforward.  Simple vocabulary: grass, sea, salt, cow, milk, cheese, cave, cool. Tie it together into simple short sentences. That is the technique used in teaching as a foreign language.

[Toby1947]

21 hours ago, bignok said:

Bob is alive!

Oh no, well at least we had a few days without his BS and drivel. Was hoping he had been given the red card, never mind 

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Not sure that argument works.

 

Thailand's economy, at least its modern economy,  is based primarily on 2 things: Tourism and FDI. Having facility with the most international of languages is quite useful in both of those things.

 

Size and neighbors also factor into it. A US person living in, for example, Iowa, can travel 1500km in any direction and still be within the US, and if he keeps going north, and avoids Quebec, eh, he still runs into native English speakers. The incentive to learn another language (coupled with laziness) keeps many monolinqual. (I've learned 7 languages as an adult, but admittedly the early 4 have all but disappeared, as either practice or lack of storage space has taken away my ability. I'm well aware of the difficulty of picking up a new language after puberty, even though full brain development doesn't stop until about age 25. Best to get started learning before age 12.)

 

Travel that same 1500 km distance from, say, Brittany, and one hits maybe 15-20 different languages, so admittedly your argument holds more water in the EU.

 

Still, unless Thailand is going to develop a more domestically-driven economy, better English proficiency would be useful.

but this has nothing to do with my critism - you also have some archaic views on language acquisition.

Who do you think took part in the survey?

[Purdey]

Frankly, the elite want their kids to take over key roles here and so send their kids to be educated abroad. In Thailand, they clearly don't want the hoi poloi to take jobs from their families, hence the terrible education system for ordinary folk.

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

How much of that is due to the professional abilities and 'qualifications' of NES expat/backpacker-type "teachers", I wonder?

That of course in turn depends on how effectively the education authorities, and particularly the schools, vet and assess applicants for jobs, and their qualifications.

 

The official requirement is a degree (any degree) and a TEFL certificate, together with a clear "criminal record report".

 

I have a degree, (from a very long time ago), in a not particularly relevant subject, although it did show an ability to communicate effectively. I took a TEFL course at an establishment in Chiang Rai, which included assessed teaching practices, at kindergarten, primary, junior secondary (up to M3) and senior secondary (up to M6). It was quite hard work (and quite expensive!) but provided with me with a solid foundation in the skills required of a TEFL teacher. Other skills I learned in my first year in post. I also found that the experience (of instructing) and self confidence gained during my long (if not particularly glorious) military career helped enormously. I was not at all worried about standing in front of a class of 30 children, a lot of people find that terrifying!

 

Many of the "online TEFL courses", without any practical assessment, and with a certificate of competence which you download and print yourself (!) are frankly about as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle!

 

When I applied for my job I was required to give a demonstration lesson to a P3 class and to an M2 class. I had to produce and show a lesson plan and a whiteboard plan, together with a worksheet. The lessons were observed by the Director, Principal and the Senior English teacher, along with the Parish Priest - it was a Catholic school. I understand that they were concerned that, in my mid 50s, I may not have been suitable. However they were satisfied and hired me.

 

I retired after 10 years in the job. I loved every minute. I was not and made no claim to be, a fully qualified teacher; in fact I tried to avoid the honorific title "teacher", preferring to be known as "Mr John", my nickname amongst the children was "Johnzilla"! However I was good at what I did.

 

But if that basic vetting, of both qualifications and suitability is not applied, and candidates are appointed because they are a "white face" and perhaps bring extra funding to the school, you can end up with weak TEFL teachers. That in turn can be part of (but certainly not the only) reason behind Thailand's poor performance in these "league tables".

 

One further point, with newly qualified graduate teachers in the UK, (and I presume other English speaking countries) pulling in £20,000 pounds plus, rising with experience to £40,000 plus, along with a good pension scheme, you are not going to get them here for ThB35000 a month!

Edited November 28, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Brick Top said:

Reminds me of "tax payers are revolting".

[herfiehandbag]

8 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I would add that, after seeing what my wife was taught to pass on to her students, I could fully understand why they wouldn't want to learn. I've been a journalist for over 40 years so understand the language pretty well, but had no idea what it was she was trying to teach them. Far, far too technical, the kind of level they might teach at university level in the UK.

Yes, there are few things as confused as a class of 16 year olds who have just been introduced to the "passive voice" by a Thai English teacher.

[MangoKorat]

A past girlfriend spoke, wrote and read excellent English - the reason being that she was at University doing a degree in Tourism and Hospitality and the University banned the use of Thai whilst students were on campus. If they were heard to speak Thai, even in personal conversation with other students, they were sent home.

 

One thing I have never quite understood in Thailand is how anyone can get a job as an Immigration Officer when they don't speak English.

Edited November 28, 2023 by MangoKorat

[StayinThailand2much]

32 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

One thing I have never quite understood in Thailand is how anyone can get a job as an Immigration Officer when they don't speak English.

 

Or branch managers at a bank (who also cannot count)... (As I experienced at SCB.)

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Or branch managers at a bank (who also cannot count)... (As I experienced at SCB.)

I wonder if both jobs are 'for sale' as I believe those of police officers may be?

[StayinThailand2much]

2 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

Yes, there are few things as confused as a class of 16 year olds who have just been introduced to the "passive voice" by a Thai English teacher.

 

At least they learnt for a whole period what the words and sentences mean in Thai, without the Thai "English" teacher actually being able to pronounce the words correctly...

[StayinThailand2much]

7 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I wonder if both jobs are 'for sale' as I believe those of police officers may be?

 

I wouldn't be surprised. A lot of things, incl. prestigious jobs, are for sale in this "Buddhist" country...

Edited November 28, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[brewsterbudgen]

3 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

 

 

One further point, with newly qualified graduate teachers in the UK, (and I presume other English speaking countries) pulling in £20,000 pounds plus, rising with experience to £40,000 plus, along with a good pension scheme, you are not going to get them here for ThB35000 a month!

 

TEFL teachers in the UK are not paid much more than TEFL teachers in Thailand, and as the cost of living in the UK is significantly higher, they're likely to be worse off.  Mind you, TEFL work in the UK is mostly for foreign students and asylum seekers, so it's hardly surprising they'd prefer to teach in Asia (or anywhere else!).

[Mr Meeseeks]

Thailand dum dum?

 

No! I no believe.

[Barnet1900]

11 hours ago, Chongalulu said:

Most students would become interested if the standard of teaching and structure of lessons were improved 

Certainly.

 

It's not just the students to blame. Decades of insisting on teaching dull, pointless grammar rules and avoiding conversation because the teachers aren't up to making the lesson interesting. The entire Thai education system is rubbish. If Thai teachers show initiative or promise they're quickly thumbed down to comply with the talentless millions that uphold this useless system. I wouldn't want to learn either.

 

The reason workers in the tourist industry can speak English, yet have no education is because they practise every day. No grammar bibles there.

 

Thailand have been employing foreigners for years to teach languages yet haven't bothered to up their game to replace this need.

 

What kid gains inspiration from such an obviously useless system? 

[cncltd1973]

12 hours ago, fondue zoo said:

You can't educate a populace, they get uppity, and then you have to apply more physical force which gets expensive. Batons just don't grow on trees you know.

Remember the three pillars of Thainess according to Dr Anutin.

what are the 3 pillars again? money, food and facebook?

[dinsdale]

14 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Despite all the money thrown at education?

Money isn't thrown at education. It's put into pockets. Highest budget it has but also very high levels of corruption.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

One thing I have never quite understood in Thailand is how anyone can get a job as an Immigration Officer when they don't speak English.

Most of them who have to deal with the public do.

[MangoKorat]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Most of them who have to deal with the public do.

That's not been my experience at the airport.

[Liverpool Lou]

10 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

15 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Most of them who have to deal with the public do.

That's not been my experience at the airport.

It has been my experience at the airports, every time I've entered or left Thailand the IOs have always been able to speak English. 

[lordgrinz]

14 hours ago, jacko45k said:

That said, I have recently noticed quite a few families with young kids, often have a bit of English in their interaction. The parents are far younger than I am of course, and they may well be middle class. Perhaps it is a status thing?

 

Middle Cass and up would be sending their kids to an international school with decent to fairly good English programs, everyone else, not so much.

[MangoKorat]

34 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It has been my experience at the airports, every time I've entered or left Thailand the IOs have always been able to speak English. 

I don't doubt its been your experience. I said it isn't mine.

 

I will describe one experience.  The I.O. at the booth when I entered questioned why I was entering on a 30 day exempt, why didn't I have a MENO. I tried to explain to her that my MENO had expired and as I was only coming for 2 weeks, I didn't think a visa was necessary. I tried to keep it simple and gave her some of my reasoning in Thai but she could not explain her decision to me. She had to bring another officer over to tell me that I would be allowed in this time but in future I must have a visa.

 

When I exited at the end of that visit I went to the immigration counter behind the passport booths to ask a few simple questions in relation to my next entry.  Two officers could not understand me at all and had to bring a third officer over to answer my questions.  I am not stupid and always try to keep what I say simple when speaking English with Thai's - I also try to use Thai to the best of my ability.

 

I would expect that a basic requirement for any Immigration Officer in any country would be fluency in the international language.

Edited November 28, 2023 by MangoKorat

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

TEFL teachers in the UK are not paid much more than TEFL teachers in Thailand, and as the cost of living in the UK is significantly higher, they're likely to be worse off.  Mind you, TEFL work in the UK is mostly for foreign students and asylum seekers, so it's hardly surprising they'd prefer to teach in Asia (or anywhere else!).

I am sure you are right, although I have never investigated TEFL in the UK.

 

My point really was to counter the argument that only fully qualified " mainstream" foreign teachers should be employed to teach English in Thai schools.