2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Anyone that attempts to compare those who are in control of the IDF with the terrorists Hamas are trolls, end of. Goodbye troll

Bkk Brian, If you're still listening (reading), again, it seems like you just don't agree with what I've posted. So, why is that "trolling"?

Here is my reasoning (although I did post a more detailed explanation of the terms I use earlier):

Civilians: Israelis/Palestinians
Militants: Zionists/Hamas - both of these factions have the one goal of gaining/regaining complete control of Israel/Palestine, and will use any means to accomplish that, including atrocities. IMO, the IDF right now is being lead by Zionists who will continue to anhialate Gaza until all Palestinians are driven out. 

Just now, WDSmart said:

Bkk Brian, If you're still listening (reading), again, it seems like you just don't agree with what I've posted. So, why is that "trolling"?

Here is my reasoning (although I did post a more detailed explanation of the terms I use earlier):

Civilians: Israelis/Palestinians
Militants: Zionists/Hamas - both of these factions have the one goal of gaining/regaining complete control of Israel/Palestine, and will use any means to accomplish that, including atrocities. IMO, the IDF right now is being lead by Zionists who will continue to anhialate Gaza until all Palestinians are driven out. 

Bkk Brian, If you're still listening (reading)

 

No I'm not

14 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Morch, I wish you would read my posts more carefully before you reply to them.

I numbered my replies as: 1) Israel should not use Hama's recent atrocities to justify their actions now. And, 2) Palestinians have suffered similar atrocities during the long war with Israel for their country. 

I didn't say Hamas should be able to justify its actions now based on what it has suffered in the past anymore than Israel should be able to justify them. My point is they are BOTH guilty of atrocities in the past and currently, and BOTH are using them to justify their responses. 

The Zionist faction in the IDF are the leaders whose goal is the complete and absolute occupation of Palestine, and the driving out of all non-Jews, or at best tolerating them as some lower-class citizens.

 

Nowhere in your post did you mention the 'restriction' applied to Israel as relevant to the Palestinians (including Hamas). You did not make a point about both sides, but focused on one of them.

 

Your closing comment about 'Zionist faction' is nonsense. I wonder if you made it up yourself, or lifted it from some dubious website.

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Civilian death and destruction are part of almost any war in carried out in urban settings. They are not universally labeled 'atrocities'. Same goes for Israel's actions.

 

A 'few' IDF soldiers? You knowledge seems to be lacking, there IDF is in strength at the Gaza Strip, and been that way for weeks.

 

You count of 'atrocities' seems to include only one side to this conflict.

Yes, civilian death and destruction are part of any war. Would you include that as "acceptable" concerning what happened on 7 Oct? I wouldn't. And I don't consider the way the IDF is destroying Gasa as "acceptable" either.

What I meant by a "few" IDF soldiers, is that there has not, to my knowledge, been a complete invasion of Gaza (yet) by the IDF.

And again I have to point out that I have from the beginning said that atrocities have been committed by BOTH sides. Do you agree with that? Do you agree that the IDF has committed atrocities, or not?

18 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Who mentioned the Gaza strip? It's hardly the chosen spot for Israeli settlers, is it?

 

topic is about the Gaza Strip, Israel war against Hamas. If there are no Israeli settlers why did you reference them?

9 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Bkk Brian, If you're still listening (reading), again, it seems like you just don't agree with what I've posted. So, why is that "trolling"?

Here is my reasoning (although I did post a more detailed explanation of the terms I use earlier):

Civilians: Israelis/Palestinians
Militants: Zionists/Hamas - both of these factions have the one goal of gaining/regaining complete control of Israel/Palestine, and will use any means to accomplish that, including atrocities. IMO, the IDF right now is being lead by Zionists who will continue to anhialate Gaza until all Palestinians are driven out. 

 

And it's still nonsense.

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, civilian death and destruction are part of any war. Would you include that as "acceptable" concerning what happened on 7 Oct? I wouldn't. And I don't consider the way the IDF is destroying Gasa as "acceptable" either.

What I meant by a "few" IDF soldiers, is that there has not, to my knowledge, been a complete invasion of Gaza (yet) by the IDF.

And again I have to point out that I have from the beginning said that atrocities have been committed by BOTH sides. Do you agree with that? Do you agree that the IDF has committed atrocities, or not?

 

Deny is as much you want there is a difference between Hamas attack on Israel and Israel's response.

 

As for your lack of knowledge regarding things in the Gaza Strip - if you are indeed that clueless, maybe go do some reading before posting further. The IDF has 'invaded', in force, weeks ago.

 

No, I do not agree with your nonsense. Hamas atrocities are documented. An army attacking a terrorist organization does not necessarily imply the same thing. Whether or not war crimes were committed by Israel in this war is something that would be made clear later on. No such doubts with regard to the Hamas.

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

13 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

IMO, the IDF right now is being lead by Zionists who will continue to anhialate Gaza until all Palestinians are driven out. 

 

And it's still nonsense.

Morch, Keep watching the news and see what happens - unless Israel's allies put enough political pressure on her to stop before that, or Hamas' allies put enough military pressure. 

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Morch, Keep watching the news and see what happens - unless Israel's allies put enough political pressure on her to stop before that, or Hamas' allies put enough military pressure. 

 

That got nothing much to do with what was posted earlier.

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Deny is as much you want there is a difference between Hamas attack on Israel and Israel's response.

 

As for your lack of knowledge regarding things in the Gaza Strip - if you are indeed that clueless, maybe go do some reading before posting further. The IDF has 'invaded', in force, weeks ago.

 

No, I do not agree with your nonsense. Hamas atrocities are documented. An army attacking a terrorist organization does not necessarily imply the same thing. Whether or not war crimes were committed by Israel in this war is something that would be made clear later on. No such doubts with regard to the Hamas.

I agree war crimes were committed by Hama.s and am sure also by Israel in response.

Just now, WDSmart said:

I agree war crimes were committed by Hama.s and am sure also by Israel in response.

 

What you are 'sure' of doesn't carry much weight, considering you seem unaware of major ongoing events regarding this conflict.

30 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Bkk Brian, You've called me this before, and before, I asked you what you meant by it. What characteristic of my posts makes you determine I'm a "troll" or I'm "trolling"? To me, it just seems like you assign that to posts with which you disagree
 

He hasn't called you a terrorist supporter (as he called me one) yet for trying to see the Palestinian point of view.

 

Belay that remark as I see that you have made his list after all.

 

ANYBODY that disagrees with his deeply biased view, he considers is a troll.

 

That is not necessarily the Hamas view.

15 minutes ago, billd766 said:

He hasn't called you a terrorist supporter (as he called me one) yet for trying to see the Palestinian point of view.

 

Belay that remark as I see that you have made his list after all.

 

ANYBODY that disagrees with his deeply biased view, he considers is a troll.

 

That is not necessarily the Hamas view.

Is that the post where you took a vile attempt to compare what Israel is doing in Gaza with the holocaust?

 

You say I have deeply biased views yea?

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

Concerning Isreal's retaliatory actions to the 07 Oct Hamas attacks and atrocities (which I do deplore), there are, IMO, two things that must be considered:

1. The atrocities Hamas committed on 07 Oct cannot be used to justify the retaliatory atrocities now being committed by the Zionist factions in control of the IDF in Israel against the Palestinian civilians.

2. This attack by Hamas did not come from nowhere. It is just a continuation of a 100+ year-long struggle between the Palestinians and Zionist Israelis for what is now called Israel (but what used to be called Palestine). And during that long period of struggle, the Israeli Zionist forces have committed every type of atrocity (murder, torture, rape, etc.) of Palestinian civilians, as was committed by Hamas on 07 Oct. 
 

Israel: 50 Years of Occupation Abuses | Human Rights Watch (hrw.org)   



 

 

 

Now tell us all that you’re not antisemitic; go on, it will make you feel better, and a warm feeling of impartiality will wash over you; but it won’t fool anyone else.

 

 

55 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

topic is about the Gaza Strip, Israel war against Hamas. If there are no Israeli settlers why did you reference them?

As providing cause for retaliation. Don't dodge the issue. You know what I'm talking about. Israeli settlers taking over Palestinian held land. Why do you think Hamas attacked Israel? Certainly one of the reasons. Alongside many others. People no longer seem able to tell right from wrong. Shelling hospitals? Cutting off water and power supplies? 6000 children killed. Is this justifiable?

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Civilian death and destruction are part of almost any war in carried out in urban settings. They are not universally labeled 'atrocities'. Same goes for Israel's actions.

 

A 'few' IDF soldiers? You knowledge seems to be lacking, there IDF is in strength at the Gaza Strip, and been that way for weeks.

 

You count of 'atrocities' seems to include only one side to this conflict.

They are by the UN. Same in Ukraine. The double standards are mind boggling.

13 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

 

Now tell us all that you’re not antisemitic; go on, it will make you feel better, and a warm feeling of impartiality will wash over you; but it won’t fool anyone else.

 

 

Conflating antisemitism with criticism of Israel. Incredible.

 

This would be the same UN that recently appointed Ali Bahreini, Ambassador of the Islamic Republic of Iran and Permanent Representative to the United Nations, to chair the 2023 United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) Social Forum.

 

The same UN whose UN Women, made no condemnation whatsoever of the multiple rapes, mutilations and slaughtering of Israeli women by Palestinians on 7th October, until very recently when they were forced to do so under International pressure.

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

This would be the same UN that recently appointed Ali Bahreini, Ambassador of the Islamic Republic of Iran and Permanent Representative to the United Nations, to chair the 2023 United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) Social Forum.

 

The same UN whose UN Women, made no condemnation whatsoever of the multiple rapes, mutilations and slaughtering of Israeli women by Palestinians on 7th October, until very recently when they were forced to do so under International pressure.

Links please

1 minute ago, bradiston said:

As providing cause for retaliation. Don't dodge the issue. You know what I'm talking about. Israeli settlers taking over Palestinian held land. Why do you think Hamas attacked Israel? Certainly one of the reasons. Alongside many others. People no longer seem able to tell right from wrong. Shelling hospitals? Cutting off water and power supplies? 6000 children killed. Is this justifiable?

 

I'm not dodging anything, just not following your reasoning.

 

The more obvious reasons for the Hamas attack would have been disrupting Saudi Arabia's intentions of normalizing relations with Israel (coming on the heels of the Abraham Accords, this would have marginalized the Palestinians further), also dropping support ratings on the domestic front, and Sinwar's position coming under question. The rest - illegal settler actions in the West Bank, things to do with Al Aqsa, and so on are fluff - it's not the sort of stuff Hamas goes to war on, normally. Used as a slogan, sure, but there's always other interests and motives.

 

If you see the three reasons I mentioned as being a legit justification for the 7/10 attack, guess we'll have to disagree.

 

Shelling hospitals? When did that happen? There weren't any major attacks on hospitals in the Gaza Strip by the IDF, as far as I recall. The power supply was initially cut off by Hamas, after rockets were launched at the supplying power station, cutting off came later. If you think that a country who just suffered something like a 9/11 attack would feel obligated to provide succor for the attacking side - we'll have to disagree. That without counting in the reports about Hamas hoarding fuel intended for civilian purposes. A whole lot of children did die in the Gaza Strip - certainly regrettable. I kinda doubt Hamas wasn't aware Israel would response in force, and yet chose the course of action it took. Also, despite having the facilities to protect the people of the Gaza Strip (all them miles of tunnels), there was no shelter offered, not even for the children. In fact, Hamas leadership both called on civilians to stay put and fact Israel's attacks, and commented on civilian death being necessary 'sacrifices' for the cause.

12 minutes ago, bradiston said:

They are by the UN. Same in Ukraine. The double standards are mind boggling.

 

Please learn to differentiate between what politicians say, even those at the UN, and what legal representatives/officers claim.

Not the same thing. Note that the ICC guy visiting Israel was more nuanced than yourself on this.

5 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Links please

 

Are you saying that you actually did not know that Ali Bahreini, Ambassador of Iran had been appointed to chair the 2023, UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) Social forum. It is well publicised common knowledge. I can find a link if you really can't confirm it yourself. Amazed however, that you didn’t know.

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Are you saying that you actually did not know that Ali Bahreini, Ambassador of Iran had been appointed to chair the 2023, UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) Social forum. It is well publicised common knowledge. I can find a link if you really can't confirm it yourself. Amazed however, that you didn’t know.

 

He asked you for a link. DYOR isn't acceptable.

4 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Are you saying that you actually did not know that Ali Bahreini, Ambassador of Iran had been appointed to chair the 2023, UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) Social forum. It is well publicised common knowledge. I can find a link if you really can't confirm it yourself. Amazed however, that you didn’t know.

 

It was linked on these topics much earlier. And it wouldn't be the first time a representative from a dodgy country took office on such things - Saudi Arabia, Syria..

21 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Shelling hospitals?

 

Would that be the shelling of the al-Ahli hospital that you are referring to  ?

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

He asked you for a link. DYOR isn't acceptable.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi226GEqfiCAxUXZ2wGHZguBFgQFnoECBQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fworld%2Firans-appointment-chair-un-rights-meeting-draws-condemnation-2023-11-02%2F&usg=AOvVaw36YpCtR_xDOYpDK9UIoVVo&opi=89978449

 

From Reuters .... although anyone with any interest would already know 

17 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Links please

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi226GEqfiCAxUXZ2wGHZguBFgQFnoECBQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fworld%2Firans-appointment-chair-un-rights-meeting-draws-condemnation-2023-11-02%2F&usg=AOvVaw36YpCtR_xDOYpDK9UIoVVo&opi=89978449

 

From Reuters, but you can't really have much interest in ME affairs if you didn't already know this 

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi226GEqfiCAxUXZ2wGHZguBFgQFnoECBQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fworld%2Firans-appointment-chair-un-rights-meeting-draws-condemnation-2023-11-02%2F&usg=AOvVaw36YpCtR_xDOYpDK9UIoVVo&opi=89978449

 

From Reuters .... although anyone with any interest would already know 

 

Link to a paywall is unacceptable. The UN is more than one man.

7 hours ago, bradiston said:

Hamas finally snapped.

Finally snapped? Hamas has been snapping ever since they were voted in.

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Link to a paywall is unacceptable. The UN is more than one man.

 

 

Did I say the UN is one man ? you were obviously doubting that Ali Bahreini had been appointed to chair the UNHRC, and I have provided a link that is not behind a paywall. Astonishing that you didn’t already know this. Obviously another one on here with no interest in the issues of the ME.