Taxes refund

[franckpattaya]

Hi everyone,

 

I would like to know if I can request to the Revenue Department of Jomtien the refund of the 15% taxes withdrawed on my savings account every months of June and December.

I have a non-O retirement visa and I stay more than 183 days per year in Thailand.

Thanks

[mran66]

it's possible, have dedicated threads for the topic in this forum, just google

https://aseannow.com/topic/610294-obtaining-refund-of-tax-withheld-on-thai-bank-fixed-savings-account/

 

I was thinking the same a year ago when applied for a Thai tax ID to satisfy US bank's requirement. However, in my case amounts were not that big, just interest for the 800k visa balance, so decided to pass as looked like not worth the hassle

 

However, I submitted the tax ID to Krungsri so that they stop the automatic tax withholding starting beg this year

Edited December 8, 2023 by mran66

[franckpattaya]

Hi mran66,

My problem is that my French bank is asking a Thai tax ID.

I went to Revenue Department at Jomtien and they didn't want to issue it because I have a non-O retirement visa

and no income in Thailand.

Thus,I am trying to get around the problem.

[mran66]

Hmmm....I have same visa as you, and no income here either. The only reason I went to ask for the tax ID was for a US investment bank, thus our situation same. I can not remember whether I just told I need fo overseas bank, or said that I need to report income in future - however I recall reading someone being declined so I may have told i will have income.

 

Just go again, try different person. And maybe tell that you will start to have rental income that you will need to file, and need tax ID for that.

 

Alternatively, you could try telling your French bank that thai tax authorities decline tax ID application as you have no taxable income here, and see what they say...

Edited December 8, 2023 by mran66

[Mike Lister]

If you complete a tax return to obtain a refund of taxes withheld on bank interest, you must also complete the rest of the return, you can't cherry pick which parts you do and don't want to complete. If during that particular tax year you also had other assessable income, such as overseas income that was remitted to Thailand, in the year it was earned, or, pension income that was deposited into a Thai bank, that also must be declared. If you don't, you've potentially filed a fraudulent return and that could come back and bite you.

 

For some people this may be OK, for others, it may be better not to reclaim the tax that has been withheld by banks.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mike Lister

[Sato]

38 minutes ago, franckpattaya said:

Hi mran66,

My problem is that my French bank is asking a Thai tax ID.

I went to Revenue Department at Jomtien and they didn't want to issue it because I have a non-O retirement visa

and no income in Thailand.

Thus,I am trying to get around the problem.

Same Problem Phang Nga (Tax Division Surat Thani).

In some Tax Division you can fill out a tax return only if you have enough taxable income to pay tax.

[mran66]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

If you complete a tax return to obtain a refund of taxes withheld on bank interest, you must also complete the rest of the return, you can't cherry pick which parts you do and don't want to complete. If during that particular tax year you also had other assessable income, such as overseas income that was remitted to Thailand, in the year it was earned, or, pension income that was deposited into a Thai bank, that also must be declared. If you don't, you've potentially filed a fraudulent return and that could come back and bite you.

 

For some people this may be OK, for others, it may be better not to reclaim the tax that has been withheld by banks.

 

Talking about filing a tax return, do you know whether it is mandatory even if our income level is so low that no tax would be collected? Or as per law need to file regardless of income amount if have tax ID and tax resident?

[Guderian]

Surely, as we've all recently learnt, if you're living in Thailand for more than 180 days a year then you're tax resident and you're not entitled to a refund, unless your entire taxable income for the year is less than 150K Baht. Or at least that seems like it will be the situation as of 1/1/24. OK, I know the tax bands are a bit more complicated than that, but it was a bit of a pain doing it 10 years ago, I certainly wouldn't bother now.

[Sato]

42 minutes ago, mran66 said:

 

Talking about filing a tax return, do you know whether it is mandatory even if our income level is so low that no tax would be collected? Or as per law need to file regardless of income amount if have tax ID and tax resident?

As I wrote above ...

Up until now you not need to fill a tax return if your taxable income is below 150'000 Bath (or so low with all deductible that you would not have to pay tax). In certain tax divisions you are not even able to fill a tax return even if you would like (e.g. to get a tax ID).

Edited December 8, 2023 by Sato

[Mike Lister]

49 minutes ago, mran66 said:

 

Talking about filing a tax return, do you know whether it is mandatory even if our income level is so low that no tax would be collected? Or as per law need to file regardless of income amount if have tax ID and tax resident?

The tax law says that anyone with assessable income of THB 120,000 per year or more, must file a return.

[scottiejohn]

56 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The tax law says that anyone with assessable income of THB 120,000 per year or more, must file a return.

And your link to that tax law is where?

[Mike Lister]

11 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

And your link to that tax law is where?

At Mazars, Sherrings or the RD, take your pick which one you want to read..

[topt]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

The tax law says that anyone with assessable income of THB 120,000 per year or more, must file a return.

What you should also point out is that up until now very few foreigners who may fall into that bracket were either unaware or just did not bother.

The only one's who seem to have had any issue with the Thai RD over it are those who applied for a tax rebate and the RD wanted further details of income or similar.

 

You could say that enforcement has been fairly similar to many other "laws" here........

[scottiejohn]

48 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

At Mazars, Sherrings or the RD, take your pick which one you want to read..

Where is the actual link please?

[Mike Lister]

26 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Where is the actual link please?

You can google it, just as well as I can, if you want to read it first hand, get googling, if you don't, it's up to you!

[Mike Lister]

54 minutes ago, topt said:

What you should also point out is that up until now very few foreigners who may fall into that bracket were either unaware or just did not bother.

The only one's who seem to have had any issue with the Thai RD over it are those who applied for a tax rebate and the RD wanted further details of income or similar.

 

You could say that enforcement has been fairly similar to many other "laws" here........

Yes, and that's how I first fell into that trap but it was three years ago, it wasn't recently. I mentioned claiming a deduction to help out my wife and her return and the RD used that as the catalyst to look at my transfers.

[ballpoint]

"All persons earning income are required to file a tax return no later than 31 March of the following year for hardcopy filing and 8 April for online filing, except for individuals whose income from employment is THB 120,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 220,000 or less (for married persons) and in the case of having income from other sources (with or without employment income) of THB 60,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 120,000 or less (for married persons)."

 

Thailand - Individual - Tax administration (pwc.com)

 

As the law currently stands, any income from overseas remitted in a year other than when it was earned, is not classed as taxable income, and plays no part in the above thresholds.  Basically, if all your funds in Thailand were brought into the country the year after they were earned, or later, you do not have to file a tax return.  State pensions from overseas are a grey area, as they are usually remitted immediately, but up till now the Revenue Department hasn't really been interested in them.

 

HOWEVER

 

Under Departmental Instruction No. Paw. 161/2566, issued in September of this year, the "different year" exemption is no longer the case.  Any income earned outside the country after January 1st 2024, and remitted to Thailand at any time, is considered to be taxable income:

 

"Clause 1: A person who resides in Thailand according to Section 41 paragraph three of the Revenue Code and has assessable income due to work duties or activities performed abroad or assets that are located abroad according to Section 41 paragraph two of the Revenue Code in that tax year and has brought that assessable income into Thailand in any tax year, has a duty to include that assessable income in calculating income tax under Section 48 of the Revenue Code in the tax year in which the assessable income is brought into Thailand,

 

Clause 2: All rules, regulations, orders, tax rulings or any practice that is contrary to or inconsistent with this order shall be cancelled.

 

Clause 3: This order shall come into force for assessable income brought into Thailand from 1 January 2024 onwards."

 

From the same link as above, under the "Significant developments" tab.

 

There are enough threads on this already, and no one really knows how the Revenue Department will go about enforcing it - whether the onus will be on the individual, or whether it will be mandatory for every tax resident to file a return for that year.  I know from personal experience, as I have reported on other threads, they can, and do, work with the Immigration Bureau to flag passports, making it impossible to extend your stay until they are satisfied.  I have my plan in place for the next two years as I wait and see what happens.

 

Getting back on topic, I would not be linking any of my bank accounts to my TIN here in order to claim or avoid a bit of witholding tax.  Sure, they can do that themselves - if they put their minds to it, but why wave it in their face and make it easy for them?

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by ballpoint

[scottiejohn]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The tax law says that anyone with assessable income of THB 120,000 per year or more, must file a return.

Please provide a specific clink to this claim that you are making!

It is not my job to boost Google's profits but AN rules state that links MUST be provided for factual claims!

Please adhere to this rule and provide a specific link!

Edited December 8, 2023 by scottiejohn

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Please provide a specific clink to this claim that you are making!

It is not my job to boost Google's profits but AN rules that links MUST be provided for factual claims!

Please adhere to this rule and provide a specific link!

Read the post above, somebody did the job for you! If you're not happy with me not posting a link, report it to the mods and have the post deleted if that makes you happy! I can't begin to count the number of times those links have been posted already, posting it again accomplishes nothing except make you happy.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mike Lister

[scottiejohn]

21 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Read the post above, somebody did the job for you! If you're not happy with me not posting a link, report it to the mods and have the post deleted if that makes you happy! I can't begin to count the number of times those links have been posted already, posting it again accomplishes nothing except make you happy.

There have been so many misleading/conflicting links posted on this ongoing saga that I asked you to provide a specific link to substantiate your  specific point "The tax law says that anyone with assessable income of THB 120,000 per year or more, must file a return."

The post above does not make that statement!

 

You have still failed to provide a link which specifically states, as you claim, that;

"The tax law says that anyone with assessable income of THB 120,000 per year or more, must file a return."

 

Please provide a SPECIFIC link!  (if you can!)

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by scottiejohn

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

There have been so many misleading/conflicting links posted on this ongoing saga that I asked you to provide a specific link to substantiate your  specific point "The tax law says that anyone with assessable income of THB 120,000 per year or more, must file a return."

The post above does not make that statement!

 

You have still failed to provide a link which specifically states, as you claim, that;

"The tax law says that anyone with assessable income of THB 120,000 per year or more, must file a return."

 

Please provide a SPECIFIC link!  (if you can!)

 

 

 

 

 

Goodbye SJ, meet my  ignore  list.

[scottiejohn]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

 

Goodbye SJ, meet my  ignore  list.

Thank you for not answering the question.  As a result I will assume, as I have from the beginning, that your statement was a false one, as usual!

 

PS; I know you have said I am now on your ignore list (why people make that statement I do not understand) but I assume that you, like many, are just making yet another lie!

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, franckpattaya said:

Hi everyone,

 

I would like to know if I can request to the Revenue Department of Jomtien the refund of the 15% taxes withdrawed on my savings account every months of June and December.

I have a non-O retirement visa and I stay more than 183 days per year in Thailand.

Thanks

Yes, I have certainly done it......

You need to get a res cert, then off to the revenue dept to get a Thai tax ID, (in my case, because of where I live, that was Banglamung).  At the end of the tax  year, say January, get a tax paid cert from the bank(s) that took the tax, then submit them along with a completed tax form to your revenue dept, copies of bank books, passport and your left foot. Then I got a letter with the refund, but it required me to open an account at the bank they deal with, Krung Thai. (Not sure if that is still the case). Then I got the refund.

With the low interest rates nowadays it probably isn't worth all the aggravation.... nor shining a tax spotlight upon yourself. Particularly with the recent moves to consider taxing foreign tax residents and retired people.

Edited December 9, 2023 by jacko45k

[IAMHERE]

22 hours ago, mran66 said:

However, I submitted the tax ID to Krungsri so that they stop the automatic tax withholding starting beg this year

Let us know how this works for you, please.

[mran66]

1 hour ago, IAMHERE said:

Let us know how this works for you, please.

 

I just gave my tax ID to my local krungsri branch and they recorded it to their system, that's it. No more tax withheld on the monthly interest credits since then. This was about a year ago

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, mran66 said:

 

I just gave my tax ID to my local krungsri branch and they recorded it to their system, that's it. No more tax withheld on the monthly interest credits since then. This was about a year ago

Up to THB 20,000 per year, after which they will deduct 15%

[Mike Lister]

7 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

Thank you for not answering the question.  As a result I will assume, as I have from the beginning, that your statement was a false one, as usual!

 

PS; I know you have said I am now on your ignore list (why people make that statement I do not understand) but I assume that you, like many, are just making yet another lie!

Because I feel sorry for you and now realise you don't have the ability or wherewithal to use google, here are the links you desperately wanted, if only you had told me!

 

"All persons earning income are required to file a tax return no later than 31 March of the following year for hardcopy filing and 8 April for online filing, except for individuals whose income from employment is THB 120,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 220,000 or less (for married persons) and in the case of having income from other sources (with or without employment income) of THB 60,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 120,000 or less (for married persons)".

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/tax-administration

 

If you stay in Thailand for the total of at least 180 days in the tax year, you are considered a “resident of Thailand” for tax purposes. You have to file a return on the income that you received if you meet one of the following conditions: (1) Your total income exceeded 120,000 baht in the tax year.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/030265guide91.pdf

 

See number 5 in folllowng link

 

https://magnacarta.co.th/home/faq-section-2/new-personal-income-tax-structure/

 

Goodbye.

 

 

 

[timendres]

13 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Because I feel sorry for you and now realise you don't have the ability or wherewithal to use google, here are the links you desperately wanted, if only you had told me!

 

"All persons earning income are required to file a tax return no later than 31 March of the following year for hardcopy filing and 8 April for online filing, except for individuals whose income from employment is THB 120,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 220,000 or less (for married persons) and in the case of having income from other sources (with or without employment income) of THB 60,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 120,000 or less (for married persons)".

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/tax-administration

 

If you stay in Thailand for the total of at least 180 days in the tax year, you are considered a “resident of Thailand” for tax purposes. You have to file a return on the income that you received if you meet one of the following conditions: (1) Your total income exceeded 120,000 baht in the tax year.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/030265guide91.pdf

 

See number 5 in folllowng link

 

https://magnacarta.co.th/home/faq-section-2/new-personal-income-tax-structure/

 

Goodbye.

 

Oh thank God! I was starting to worry that @scottiejohn was about to ignite the Spanish Linkquisition.

[BusyB]

 

The THB120,000 threshold m u s t affect almost anyone on a Non-O (+ extension), or similar, who spends 180 days a year in country. That, unless they can prove dual taxation agreements with their home country.

 

120,000/12 = 10,000 = $281.00/month

 

There is no one not begging on the streets who is living in Thailand on less than 281 dollars a month for 180 days or more. Not even in Pattaya behind a 7-11.

Edited December 9, 2023 by BusyB

[Presnock]

10 minutes ago, BusyB said:

 

The THB120,000 threshold m u s t affect almost anyone on a Non-O (+ extension), or similar, who spends 180 days a year in country. That, unless they can prove dual taxation agreements with their home country.

 

120,000/12 = 10,000 = $281.00/month

 

There is no one not begging on the streets who is living in Thailand on less than 281 dollars a month for 180 days or more. Not even in Pattaya behind a 7-11.

 

10 minutes ago, BusyB said:

 

The THB120,000 threshold m u s t affect almost anyone on a Non-O (+ extension), or similar, who spends 180 days a year in country. That, unless they can prove dual taxation agreements with their home country.

 

120,000/12 = 10,000 = $281.00/month

 

There is no one not begging on the streets who is living in Thailand on less than 281 dollars a month for 180 days or more. Not even in Pattaya behind a 7-11.

Not to start any problems but as it says in the above "earned" income...most retirees are here on a pension and a retirement visa person is not allowed to work to earn a salary or benefits of any kind.