Drug that Trump called a ‘miracle Covid cure’ is linked to 17,000 deaths

[Liverpool Lou]

21 minutes ago, stevenl said:

25 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It'd be interesting to know also how many people did not die after using it then the report may have some meaning instead of just being another lame Trump-bash?!

Another one who comments on research without understanding.

I do not need to understand Covid cures in order to just pose that question.    Is your understanding of Covid cures sufficient for you to comment more meaningfully on the subject than I or any other AN poster?

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I do not need to understand Covid cures in order to just pose that question.    Is your understanding of Covid cures sufficient for you to comment more meaningfully on the subject than I?

Yes.

[BenStark]

6 hours ago, Foxx said:

The French study estimated that 16,990 patients in the US, France, Belgium, Italy, Spain and Turkey may have died as a result of the drug."

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/may

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It'd be interesting to know also how many people did not die after using it then the report may have some meaning instead of just being another lame Trump-bash!

 

The referenced study here wasn't counting just deaths. It was attempting to tally the "excess mortality" (higher rate of deaths) among COVID hospitalized patients during 2020 who were treated with the drug vs. COVID deaths among comparable hospitalized patients who did not receive the drug.

 

[BenStark]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I do not need to understand Covid cures in order to just pose that question.    Is your understanding of Covid cures sufficient for you to comment more meaningfully on the subject than I?

Yes.

 

Oh, i thought you were a diving instructor, hardly a scientist

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, BenStark said:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/may

 

 

The study's authors did a good job of explaining the limitations of their finding and conclusions, for anyone who actually reads the entire study....

 

But here's their upshot:

 

"Given that reliable data on hospitalizations, HCQ use and in-hospital mortality for most countries, these numbers likely represent the tip of the iceberg only thus largely underestimating the number of HCQ-related deaths worldwide.

...

"The number of deaths related to HCQ worldwide was obviously underestimated because of the lack of studies in regions, such as East Europe, United Kingdom, Germany, Scandinavia, Africa, and South America. Since the number of inhabitants living in the countries included in the present study was ≈ 600 million, we might speculate that the real number of HCQ-induced deaths might be significantly higher given the wide use of HCQ during the first and subsequent waves in numerous countries."

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S075333222301853X

 

 

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The referenced study here wasn't counting just deaths. It was attempting to tally the "excess mortality" (higher rate of deaths) among COVID hospitalized patients during 2020 who were treated with the drug vs. COVID deaths among comparable hospitalized patients who did not receive the drug.

 

I'll ask you the same question.  How did they choose who got HCQ in hospital and who didn't?  And how did they make it random without violating ethics?

 

Keep in mind these were studies of people being treated in hospital, real time.  Not double blind random studies with volunteers.

 

[BenStark]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The study's authors did a good job of explaining the limitations of their finding and conclusions, for anyone who actually reads the entire study....

 

But here's their upshot:

 

"Given that reliable data on hospitalizations, HCQ use and in-hospital mortality for most countries, these numbers likely represent the tip of the iceberg

You want I also post the definition of LIKELY?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, impulse said:

I'll ask you the same question.  How did they choose who got HCQ in hospital and who didn't?  And how did they make it random without violating ethics?

 

Keep in mind these were studies of people being treated in hospital, real time.  Not double blind random studies with volunteers.

 

The authors of this study didn't perform their own study of the results of what happened with individual patients. If I'm reading their report correctly, their study is a synthesis of the findings of some 44 different studies on HCQ use in hospitalized COVID patients among six countries during the first COVID wave in 2020.

 

 

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The authors of this study didn't perform their own study of the results of what happened with individual patients. If I'm reading their report correctly, their study is a synthesis of the findings of some 44 different studies on HCQ use in hospitalized COVID patients among six countries during the first COVID wave in 2020.

 

 

 

How would any hospital choose who got HCQ and who didn't?

 

 

[300sd]

Made me feel better.

[DudleySquat]

Conclusions

"Although our estimates are limited by their imprecision, these findings illustrate the hazard of drug repurposing with low-level evidence."

 

There is no mention of dosages. There was no mention of how long they were given the drug. Which is why they used the word "imprecision."

 

That says it all. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Drug that Trump called a ‘miracle Covid cure..."

 

I'm pretty sure that he never described it as "a miracle cure" but maybe someone will come up with a link that he did. 

 

Trump Tells The Story Of A 'Miracle' Cure For COVID-19. But Was It?

April 7, 2020

...

"At Tuesday's White House coronavirus task force briefing, Trump told the story of a woman from Michigan who was sick with COVID-19 — a story he had seen on television the night before.

 

"She was just in horrible shape for 12 days, 14 days," Trump said. "She thought she was dead." The president said she implored her husband to obtain hydroxychloroquine, and the husband did so.

"Four hours later, she awoke and she said, I feel better," Trump recalled. "And then, shortly thereafter, she felt great."

 

"The way she spoke," Trump said, "it was like a miracle. And this was not a fan of mine, but she's a fan of my now."

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/07/829302545/trump-tells-the-story-of-a-miracle-cure-for-covid-19-but-was-it

 

At another point, Trump also said hydroxychloroquine could be among "the biggest game changers in the history of medicine" for its potential effects against COVID-19.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-drug/no-proof-drug-touted-by-trump-is-effective-against-coronavirus-eu-idUSKBN21I275/

 

 

[DudleySquat]

I didn't notice anywhere in the "study" where they mentioned Trump.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, DudleySquat said:

 

Conclusions

Although our estimates are limited by their imprecision, these findings illustrate the hazard of drug repurposing with low-level evidence.

 

There is no mention of dosages. There was no mention of how long they were given the drug. Which is why they used the word "imprecision."

 

That says it all. 

That says it all with regards to their opinion on laymen giving medical recommendations. There are more conclusions on Hcq in the research.

 

Laymen questioning research because they don't like the conclusions. Laughable but also sad. Shows the division a conman caused.

[DudleySquat]

What I notice from this "study," is that this is the first time people are dying from a drug and not WITH covid. 

 

How ridiculous is this study? 

 

• In-hospital patients with Covid. 
• Given an undetermined dosage of hydroxychloroquine. 
• We are not told what comorbidities they had on admission. 
• We are not told what other drugs were given.  Remdesivir anyone?
• Were they on respirators? 

All of a sudden, it all comes down to one drug. It's a BULL<deleted> study. 

[DudleySquat]

14 minutes ago, stevenl said:

That says it all with regards to their opinion on laymen giving medical recommendations. There are more conclusions on Hcq in the research.

 

Laymen questioning research because they don't like the conclusions. Laughable but also sad. Shows the division a conman caused.

 

"Although our estimates are limited by their imprecision, these findings illustrate the hazard of drug repurposing with low-level evidence."

 

I didn't write that it was limited or imprecise. They authors did. 

 

So what are you trying to say? 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, DudleySquat said:

I didn't notice anywhere in the "study" where they mentioned Trump.

 

It does, indirectly and then directly via footnote:

 

""it is critical that representatives of public authorities should not, on the basis of their personal conviction, promote the prescription of medicines that have not been formally evaluated, thereby falsely raising hopes as to the existence of a solution to a complex health crisis [88]"

...

[88] Karni A., Thomas K. Trump Says He’s Taking Hydroxychloroquine, Prompting Warning From Health Experts [Internet]. The New York Times. 2020 [cited 2023 Nov 29];Available from: 〈https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/18/us/politics/trump-hydroxychloroquine-covid-coronavirus.html〉"

 

 

 

[DudleySquat]

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It does, indirectly and via footnote:

 

 

An allusion? I still don't see the word Trump. Are you seeing things that aren't there? 

 

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

[HighPriority]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Trump Tells The Story Of A 'Miracle' Cure For COVID-19. But Was It?

April 7, 2020

...

"At Tuesday's White House coronavirus task force briefing, Trump told the story of a woman from Michigan who was sick with COVID-19 — a story he had seen on television the night before.

 

"She was just in horrible shape for 12 days, 14 days," Trump said. "She thought she was dead." The president said she implored her husband to obtain hydroxychloroquine, and the husband did so.

"Four hours later, she awoke and she said, I feel better," Trump recalled. "And then, shortly thereafter, she felt great."

 

"The way she spoke," Trump said, "it was like a miracle. And this was not a fan of mine, but she's a fan of my now."

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/07/829302545/trump-tells-the-story-of-a-miracle-cure-for-covid-19-but-was-it

 

Nice job, I went looking for the quote but couldn’t find this one, the ones I did find were more weasely worded but unequivocally promotion.

Faucci and his colleagues were immediate and unequivocal with their rebuttals but as noted in one article “…when the President of the USA endorses something it has power…” even when expressing views of a horses arz 😎

[freedomnow]

5 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually it is Trump that trumpeted this:

 

 

His eyes always look mental to use the technical term...if you saw him in bar, he looks not right in the head at all.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, DudleySquat said:

An allusion? I still don't see the word Trump. Are you seeing things that aren't there? 

 

As posted above in my prior answer to your challenge:

 

"It does, indirectly and then directly via footnote:

 

""it is critical that representatives of public authorities should not, on the basis of their personal conviction, promote the prescription of medicines that have not been formally evaluated, thereby falsely raising hopes as to the existence of a solution to a complex health crisis [88]"

...

[88] Karni A., Thomas K. Trump Says He’s Taking Hydroxychloroquine, Prompting Warning From Health Experts [Internet]. The New York Times. 2020 [cited 2023 Nov 29];Available from: 〈https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/18/us/politics/trump-hydroxychloroquine-covid-coronavirus.html〉"

 

[DudleySquat]

4 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

His eyes always look mental to use the technical term...if you saw him in bar, he looks not right in the head at all.

What does it have to do with a scientific study? 

[Liverpool Lou]

31 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Trump Tells The Story Of A 'Miracle' Cure For COVID-19. But Was It?

April 7, 2020

...

"At Tuesday's White House coronavirus task force briefing, Trump told the story of a woman from Michigan who was sick with COVID-19 — a story he had seen on television the night before.

 

"She was just in horrible shape for 12 days, 14 days," Trump said. "She thought she was dead." The president said she implored her husband to obtain hydroxychloroquine, and the husband did so.

"Four hours later, she awoke and she said, I feel better," Trump recalled. "And then, shortly thereafter, she felt great."

 

"The way she spoke," Trump said, "it was like a miracle. And this was not a fan of mine, but she's a fan of my now."

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/07/829302545/trump-tells-the-story-of-a-miracle-cure-for-covid-19-but-was-it

 

At another point, Trump also said hydroxychloroquine could be among "the biggest game changers in the history of medicine" for its potential effects against COVID-19.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-drug/no-proof-drug-touted-by-trump-is-effective-against-coronavirus-eu-idUSKBN21I275/

 

 

Thanks for that .  It does not confirm that Trump called the drug a miracle cure.  In your link it reports...

"Four hours later, she awoke and she said, I feel better," Trump recalled. "And then, shortly thereafter, she felt great."

"The way she spoke," Trump said, "it was like a miracle". 

Trump was commenting on how that woman was sounding.  If you can find a link where Trump actually did claim that "the drug is a miracle cure", that'd be much more interesting.

[rattlesnake]

I thought correlation didn't cause causation? Or does that depend on whether it suits you or not?

[novacova]

29 minutes ago, DudleySquat said:

I didn't notice anywhere in the "study" where they mentioned Trump.

No, of course not. The media conflates everything they disseminate blurring the facts…

 

32 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Trump Tells The Story Of A 'Miracle' Cure For COVID-19. But Was It?

April 7, 2020

...

"At Tuesday's White House coronavirus task force briefing, Trump told the story of a woman from Michigan who was sick with COVID-19 — a story he had seen on television the night before.

 

"She was just in horrible shape for 12 days, 14 days," Trump said. "She thought she was dead." The president said she implored her husband to obtain hydroxychloroquine, and the husband did so.

"Four hours later, she awoke and she said, I feel better," Trump recalled. "And then, shortly thereafter, she felt great."

 

"The way she spoke," Trump said, "it was like a miracle. And this was not a fan of mine, but she's a fan of my now."

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/07/829302545/trump-tells-the-story-of-a-miracle-cure-for-covid-19-but-was-it

 

At another point, Trump also said hydroxychloroquine could be among "the biggest game changers in the history of medicine" for its potential effects against COVID-19.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-drug/no-proof-drug-touted-by-trump-is-effective-against-coronavirus-eu-idUSKBN21I275/

 

 

…which the above reinforces the fact that the media conflates twists and politicizes everything, even a flawed study to place blame on individuals. Again, the media is controlled and throttles the truth. If the truth is what someone wants then find other sources of information approaching with speculation because nowadays even science is littered with political skews.

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

I thought correlation didn't cause causation? Or does that depend on whether it suits you or not?

Where did you see claims of causation?

[stevenl]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

As posted above in my prior answer to your challenge:

 

"It does, indirectly and then directly via footnote:

 

""it is critical that representatives of public authorities should not, on the basis of their personal conviction, promote the prescription of medicines that have not been formally evaluated, thereby falsely raising hopes as to the existence of a solution to a complex health crisis [88]"

...

[88] Karni A., Thomas K. Trump Says He’s Taking Hydroxychloroquine, Prompting Warning From Health Experts [Internet]. The New York Times. 2020 [cited 2023 Nov 29];Available from: 〈https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/18/us/politics/trump-hydroxychloroquine-covid-coronavirus.html〉"

 

 

Just now, novacova said:

No, of course not. The media conflates everything they disseminate blurring the facts…

 

…which the above reinforces the fact that the media conflates twists and politicizes everything, even a flawed study to place blame on individuals. Again, the media is controlled and throttles the truth. If the truth is what someone wants then find other sources of information approaching with speculation because nowadays even science is littered with political skews.

See the quote. Clearly mentioned, directly and indirectly. 

[Amethyst]

Several more off-topic and trolling posts have been removed.

 

[Lacessit]

If Trump did take HCQ, it obviously did not work, as he got COVID.

 

He also got world-class medical care at Walter Reed Hospital, courtesy of the American taxpayer.

 

Presumably some of the people who believed in his endorsement of HCQ were not as fortunate.