New tax era in Thailand begins as Revenue now shares data with 138 countries within the OECD

[roo860]

7 hours ago, jacob29 said:

 

To where though? Majority of places will still tax you more (tax regardless of remittance). I don't buy that people are by and large living in Thailand purely for the tax perks. The regional exceptions seem to be Philippines and Malaysia, and I think Malaysia is essential adopting the same model as Thailand.

 

If you transfer it to her account abroad, then she remits it into Thailand, yes nobody would be the wiser. Otherwise it remains a remittance, same as if I made a purchase and did a wire transfer straight into the sellers Thai account, and presumably can be tracked - open question as to level of enforcement in practice.

They have no access and will have no access to your own country bank account, not even your home bank account number etc. Not your Wise account either IMHO. 

[jacko45k]

22 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

The one thing I hate more than anything else is preparing taxes, I would rather die then even deal with it. I had to tell my US tax preparer "whatever you do, make sure I never have to deal with an IRS agent at my door", basically I told her not to go after every penny by using any questionable schemes. So not happy about being forced to deal with the Thai system now, sick of it all.

Have you received some notification?

I have had nothing,,,, I did Thai returns to claim back withholding tax, many years ago. The interest rates became negligible, the RD stopped sending me reminders, so I stopped too.  Covid came along muddying the waters.....I too am certainly not looking forward to being pestered by them. 

[worrab]

13 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Strongly suggest you read the thread, a simple tax guide.

This was put up so that Kinnock might get a guidance to what the rate of tax and guidance is about. He is the person that needs to read the complete guide.

For me personally, I have stopped all pension transfers here and ensured I had enough for us to live on with payments I made in 2023. Then I am getting an inheritance payment fairly soon which is exempt from taxation. That amount is enough for us to live on quite comfortably. 

[lordgrinz]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Have you received some notification?

I have had nothing,,,, I did Thai returns to claim back withholding tax, many years ago. The interest rates became negligible, the RD stopped sending me reminders, so I stopped too.  Covid came along muddying the waters.....I too am certainly not looking forward to being pestered by them. 

 

Nothing, but with Jan 1st here, we are required to deal with it, if we like it or not. I don't want to break the rules, which is why I am not happy about having to deal with it. For now I understand it to mean money remitted, so I won't remit anything this year, this way I can see what others deal with when they file their taxes in 2025 for the year 2024.

[NanLaew]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:08 PM, jacko45k said:

... I also dispute that they 'vary widely'.

 

Each person's pension yields a different value pay cheque depending on how long and how much they contributed. The pensioner that worked longer, making more contributions, will get a larger pot to piss in than someone who didn't.

[PremiumLane]

On 1/8/2024 at 6:52 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

Too bad other countries don't tax income... oh wait... they do.  This is a measure by Thailand to collect tax from those who don't pay... it is not aimed at pensions, SSI, or other previously taxed income... it's aimed at those that are generating income and not paying their fair share.

 

Using facts in here? Don't you know it is all about their feels and knee-jerk outrage at everything

[Aviatorhi]

On 1/8/2024 at 6:54 AM, worrab said:

With your allowances here and the tax ladder, I doubt very much you will have any tax to pay. Plus your proof of having paid tax in UK.

No, no, no; let them leave based on false impressions. The less "taxation is theft" folks around the better - especially when they don't comprehend what taxation is. 

[Yumthai]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

When were the savings earned? If they were earned prior to 1 January 2024 (which I imagine they must have been), those savings can be imported free of tax. Our present understanding is that transfer of funds represents income that must be assessed for Thai tax, because it exceeds the minimum assessible income threshold to file a tax return. No tax will be due, because those savings were earned (presumably) before 1 January 2024 and are exempt under the current rules. This may seem like an unnecessary process but it does make sense in that it allows the RD to understand the nature of the source of the funds and to account for a decent sized funds transfer. 

 

Are you now practicing illeism?

 

This is "your" understanding not "our" as you rightly wrote in another thread: "Not everyone agrees with the above interpretation and it has been the subject of much debate".

 

My view along with many others' is that offshore sourced income derived by a Thai tax resident before 1 Jan 2024 is not subject to Thai personal income tax as per instruction No. Por. 162/2566. Therefore remitting this money into Thailand never requires, alone, to file a tax return.

 

 

[Mike Lister]

 

29 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

Are you now practicing illeism?

 

This is "your" understanding not "our" as you rightly wrote in another thread: "Not everyone agrees with the above interpretation and it has been the subject of much debate".

 

My view along with many others' is that offshore sourced income derived by a Thai tax resident before 1 Jan 2024 is not subject to Thai personal income tax as per instruction No. Por. 162/2566. Therefore remitting this money into Thailand never requires, alone, to file a tax return.

 

 

Thank god you're around to police my grammar and spot my mistakes, I sleep better knowing this!

[Adumbration]

13 hours ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Hi. 

Following visits to both my local immigration and RD offices yesterday, I was reassured by both that no additional documentation is required for a visa extension. 

Joe

 

I have to do my extension next week.  I will see how it goes.  I am going 45 days early in case there is some new moronic time wasting requirement.  Just doing another map of my house location drawn by hand.  This ridiculous requirement was introduced 12 or so years back as I recall.  So immigration have at least a dozen pieces of my artwork. 

 

I wonder what gallery they sell them to?

 

 

[Adumbration]

13 hours ago, sirineou said:

Good to know, I am doing my extension next week and I was wondering the same. 

 

Me too.  PM me to let me know how you go and I will do the same.

 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Adumbration said:

Me too.  PM me to let me know how you go and I will do the same.

 

I will but , my bad, I just checked and it will be next month .

 

[Adumbration]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I will but , my bad, I just checked and it will be next month .

 

Mine is due in late feb. But I will be doing it 45 days early.

[ChaiyaTH]

14 hours ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Before Jan 1st.

We'd spend anywhere from 400,000-700,000 THB a month, and then additional 120,000 THB (wife) a month.

 

Since Jan 1st we've moved ALL our insurances overseas (parent companies), we've moved ALL our additional costs where possible (boating costs etc) to their parent companies, all purchasing we do overseas (Amazon etc), basically anything that can be dealt with via a parent/sister company has been routed overseas to those companies, kids education, medical, etc all parent companies overseas.

I'd hazard a guess the Gov are loosing roughly 120,000 THB minimum a month from just my credit card VAT payments.

 

That's without all the other costs, even staff are now paid from overseas, we lost a couple, as they didn't want that, they wanted to continue to be paid in cash from my wife (which we paid tax -reported which was 'savings' - but just so we had no issues...).

 

I looked at my credit card the other day, 3,000 THB spent, bank 10,000 THB.

 

Our online company and all people who live here, which is about 20 people in total, all stopped sending money to Thailand and do same as you said. Will cost them many millions in VAT alone yearly as you say. Aside from not buying a condo, car etc etc anymore.

 

I even will do all my shopping in Vietnam from now on if I ever need a new macbook, iphone etc. I wonder if the THB is gonna crash soon as they must see serious less foreign funds coming in, as tourism isn't close to back what it was.

 

My best guess is that they need at least 10 million backpackers more, just to compensate for this, if most of us do this.

Edited January 10 by ChaiyaTH

[ChaiyaTH]

17 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Well said mate - and a totally rational and logical statement about the illogal and irrational 'thing' that is the Thailand Bureacracy and Government. May I add to your list - cannabis reform, TAT and their predictions,  annual extensions, health insurance, tourist tax on arrival, building new airport buildings, roads and monorails, dealing with the smoke problems, the last election, and ........... there is so much more, but enough for now. This place is a totally disorganised rabble of rampant corruption and nepotism - the odds of them getting this new tax rule correct and not absolutely screing it up - are higher than Man Utd winning the Champions League this year.  Plan well folks and be ready - who knows how this will end up - could be great (through sheer luck), and it could be an absolute clusterphar.......... 

Isn't that what we should hope for in a way? In that case Thailand would become really cheap again.

[sirineou]

16 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

Mine is due in late feb. But I will be doing it 45 days early.

If you do it 45 days early , does it start 45 days earlier which would mean that you lose about a month or does it start when the current one expires?

Would you happen to know?  

Because if I would also like to do it as early as it is avowed, who knows what the Thai goverment will come up with in 45 days . 

[TheAppletons]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

If you do it 45 days early , does it start 45 days earlier which would mean that you lose about a month or does it start when the current one expires?

Would you happen to know?  

Because if I would also like to do it as early as it is avowed, who knows what the Thai goverment will come up with in 45 days . 

 

  You don't "lose" any days by renewing early.  

[quake]

41 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

I have to do my extension next week.  I will see how it goes.  I am going 45 days early in case there is some new moronic time wasting requirement.  Just doing another map of my house location drawn by hand.  This ridiculous requirement was introduced 12 or so years back as I recall.  So immigration have at least a dozen pieces of my artwork.

 

Had the BMW smart car round the other day ( can't say the same for the occupants) 

To check I lived there and log the GPS coordinates into there system.

So they won't need a hand drawn map next time. 

Oh yes they bloody will. TIT.

 

 

 

[BE88]

51 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

I have to do my extension next week.  I will see how it goes.  I am going 45 days early in case there is some new moronic time wasting requirement.  Just doing another map of my house location drawn by hand.  This ridiculous requirement was introduced 12 or so years back as I recall.  So immigration have at least a dozen pieces of my artwork. 

 

I wonder what gallery they sell them to?

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, sirineou said:

If you do it 45 days early , does it start 45 days earlier which would mean that you lose about a month or does it start when the current one expires?

Would you happen to know?  

Because if I would also like to do it as early as it is avowed, who knows what the Thai goverment will come up with in 45 days . 

 

Why are you all so worried? In any case, we are talking about the tax declaration request from 1 January 2025 until 30 March, so all requests for extensions this year are like the usual requests.

Therefore it can be assumed that they will be requested from 1 January 2026 if they are linked to the extension request.

 

Edited January 10 by BE88

[quake]

11 minutes ago, sirineou said:

If you do it 45 days early , does it start 45 days earlier which would mean that you lose about a month or does it start when the current one expires?

Would you happen to know?  

Because if I would also like to do it as early as it is avowed, who knows what the Thai goverment will come up with in 45 days . 

 

Your extension renewal  date will not change, year in year out.

need to leave the country for that and start visa application all over again. 

 

Ps not all offices are 45 days, some are 30.

 

 

Edited January 10 by quake

[TroubleandGrumpy]

12 hours ago, Kinnock said:

That sounds like you can still bring money into Thailand after 1st Jan 24 without a tax liability if you earned that money prior to 1st Jan 24?

 

So if you had savings in a home country bank last year, you could claim that the money was earned prior to the new tax law?

Yes that is the case.  BUT - be careful - do not think that is it - and forget about it now.  We do not know if you will have to 'prove' that to the satisfaction of the Thai RD.  All they can 'see' at any time in the future, is that an Expat remitted XYZ Baht into Thailand in any given year/s - was it assessbale income/money is not something they get from bank records. So what happens if/when they ask you to 'clarify' why you did not lodge a tax return.  What is the 'required proof' as far as Thai RD requires?  So the answer is Yes - but it is not a get out of jail card.

[topt]

27 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

My best guess is that they need at least 10 million backpackers more, just to compensate for this, if most of us do this.

Personally I think you are, as many have before you, overestimating the number and effect of those who reduce their spend dramatically or become non resident. I doubt the ones in power would notice or even care.

 

Whilst people may be able to live on current funds for a year or so or make reductions in spending I doubt many can do so indefinitely. 

 

As someone potentially affected it would certainly cost me more to arrange my affairs to be non-resident than pay the potential tax due which would be painful but not exceedingly egregious........

 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

39 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Isn't that what we should hope for in a way? In that case Thailand would become really cheap again.

True - and hope by all means - but also it is wise to plan for what happens if what you hope for does not come to pass. If you are a Man Utd fan I would not buy a ticket to the Final and hope. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

17 minutes ago, topt said:

As someone potentially affected it would certainly cost me more to arrange my affairs to be non-resident than pay the potential tax due which would be painful but not exceedingly egregious........

That is true and that is what everyone has to decide for themselves.  But as it stands right now, we are not yet certain of what income taxes will be applicable in what situations. There is so much uncertainty and that gap is being filled by discussions and opinions.  If the Thai RD would provide much more clarity of how they will both apply and enforce this 'New Tax Era' (under which all tax residents [Expats] are expected 'to contribute', then we could all ascertain exactly how we will be affected and therefore eascertain what we will do about it.

 

As it stands right now, the Thai RD has confirmed we are expected to pay income taxes (if applicable) - but all the details are missing, and we therefore cannot ascertain how exactly this 'new regime' will affect us individually. 

Edited January 10 by TroubleandGrumpy

[aussienam]

As all incoming foreign sourced remittances to Thailand are potentially taxable, I wouldn't be rushing to transfer large sums of money into Thailand right now.  Property purchases especially.  You could end up with a massive tax bill - equating to an instant large capital loss on a property purchase.  Same goes for expensive motor vehicles, sponsoring another Thai citizen, and day to day spending.  I'll be making 2024 very frugal until there is clarification.  Then will make decision to either stay or sell everything I have here and move to a tax-friendly country for retirees.  

Plenty of Thais relying on expats for income support who now won't be receiving it.  

Those electing to retire this year in Thailand may want to reconsider or hold off.  The 800,000 THB single deposit or the 65,000 THB monthly remittance to qualify for a retirement visa both now seem to be taxable (depending on source of funds). 

Don't sell your house overseas and consider remitting those funds to Thailand.  You could be in for a massive tax bill.  

[Adumbration]

49 minutes ago, sirineou said:

If you do it 45 days early , does it start 45 days earlier which would mean that you lose about a month or does it start when the current one expires?

Would you happen to know?  

Because if I would also like to do it as early as it is avowed, who knows what the Thai goverment will come up with in 45 days . 

 

No.  If you do it 45 days early the renewal date is the same.  That is you get one year from the expiry date of your current extension.  Some offices only allow 30 days but mine is 45.  I always do it early because there is always some idiotic new requirement or often completely new staff in the office.  Over the past decade there have been at least a dozen new/different paperwork requirements.  Years ago I was required to submit two copies of all documents including a photocopy of every page of my passport (even the blank ones).  That changed with a change of staff.  I like to go early because if there are any show stopping hitches then I can head off to Patts and use and agent.  A friend of mine here had to do just that last year.  New female IO was being a *ick with him and he exploded and gave them all a serve.  They refused to do his extension and so he had just two days to get to Patts and use and agent.

[CashMoon]

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

 

When were the savings earned? If they were earned prior to 1 January 2024 (which I imagine they must have been), those savings can be imported free of tax. Our present understanding is that transfer of funds represents income that must be assessed for Thai tax, because it exceeds the minimum assessible income threshold to file a tax return. No tax will be due, because those savings were earned (presumably) before 1 January 2024 and are exempt under the current rules. This may seem like an unnecessary process but it does make sense in that it allows the RD to understand the nature of the source of the funds and to account for a decent sized funds transfer. 

 

I have 500 acres of citrus garden. We do not file taxes for our earnings. Since we are farmers, we are exempt from taxes up to a certain limit. Most of our savings in the bank were inherited. It is currently being processed in investment funds. This law has become a bit complicated for me. 

I earned my earnings legally, tax-free, in my homeland. Can they tax me here because I don't pay taxes in my home country?

 

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Adumbration said:

No.  If you do it 45 days early the renewal date is the same.  That is you get one year from the expiry date of your current extension.  Some offices only allow 30 days but mine is 45.  I always do it early because there is always some idiotic new requirement or often completely new staff in the office.

Thank you for that clarification

Our IO in Khon Kaen is also very reasonable and helpful , unlike some of the horror stories that I read from others at other locations, it is actuary a pleasure to work with them here,I bet they would also be acomonationg. I will give them a call and ask.

I am also in the same mindframe as you, who knows what else they will come up in the next month, especially in view of the new tax situation,

So I better get while the getting is good,

[Bobthegimp]

47 minutes ago, CashMoon said:

earned my earnings legally, tax-free, in my homeland. Can they tax me here because I don't pay taxes in my home country

 

From what I've read of the Thai tax code, yes. 

 

A source of income could be non taxable at home but fully exposed to Thai taxation.   Being Canadian, I think of our Canadian dividend and capital gains tax rules. Whilst not fully taxable in Canada, they are taxable in Thailand, minus taxes paid at home.  In effect, this is the Canadian government foregoing revenue (to encourage investment ) which the Thai government will then be treating as their windfall. 

 

It's crucial to understand your country's tax treaty with Thailand to see if you can:

A) restructure your income to reduce tax exposure

B) bail on Thailand for a more friendly regime

C) suck it up and pay the taxes to the Thai government.  

[Jenkins9039]

4 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Our online company and all people who live here, which is about 20 people in total, all stopped sending money to Thailand and do same as you said. Will cost them many millions in VAT alone yearly as you say. Aside from not buying a condo, car etc etc anymore.

 

I even will do all my shopping in Vietnam from now on if I ever need a new macbook, iphone etc. I wonder if the THB is gonna crash soon as they must see serious less foreign funds coming in, as tourism isn't close to back what it was.

 

My best guess is that they need at least 10 million backpackers more, just to compensate for this, if most of us do this.

Dollar will decline in spending power due to the 8+ trillion they need to put in the Fed Balance Sheet.

 

So Thailand will have to devalue their currency like all other countries to remain competitive for exports (10,000 THB bribe makes sense then).

 

So yeah, if holding fiat convert to something else...