Court summons for airbnb review

[itsari]

In five years of hosting using Airbnb with 5 listings i have never given a bad review. 

If I am not happy with the guest I give no review.

If the guest gives a bad review I try and have it removed .

Not always successful I may add.

[ChipButty]

I'm frightened to say Good Morning to people in Thailand 

[ChipButty]

10 hours ago, tgw said:

 

you could have asked airbnb if their terms of use include accepting reviews by owners - if they do, he's screwed.

If you mean House Rules? each host has to write their own rules regarding check in and most host have their own check out rules, 

Like No Parties, No Smoking as a host you can put what you want within reason, 

[ChipButty]

24 minutes ago, itsari said:

In five years of hosting using Airbnb with 5 listings i have never given a bad review. 

If I am not happy with the guest I give no review.

If the guest gives a bad review I try and have it removed .

Not always successful I may add.

We bought our cleaner a new phone last year and showed her how to make video's when she does a walk through especially after check out, everytime after she cleans make a video or take photo's, 

[ChipButty]

18 hours ago, mr_lob said:

Last year, a Thai group stayed in one of our villas - after check out the villa was left in a really bad state.

Appropriately, we gave him a poor review on airbnb - a simple 2 sentence statement that the villa was left very dirty and they didn't respect the place.

Now, months later, we received a court summons - the guy *who is a lawyer* accuses us of ''defamation through advertising is despised and hated.'' He said that because of our review, other hosts are not accepting his bookings.

Erm, that's the whole idea of the airbnb system!!

He is seeking damages of 300,000 baht. Yes, you read that right, 300k. For a 2 night stay which we got 10k and a filthy villa from.

 

Welcome any comments from anyone who has been in a similar situation!

 

Thanks guys

Do you charge a cleaning fee? 

[retarius]

Airbnb should be banned imho. Skirting rental laws is not a business model. To the OP, it serves you right.  I hope you lose the case\.

[ChipButty]

When he says he has not been able to book on airbnb because of the bad review, Airbnb will have record of that how many times he has been refused, If you could get access to that information or tell that guest to show proof as it would be in his inbox marked as "Booking Declined" pressure him to proved that info and it should say the reasons it was declined, 

Edited February 3 by ChipButty

[newnative]

   They left the place dirty and messy?  Big deal.  That's called running a hotel--which is what you are doing.  If you don't want to be in the hotel business, where guests leaving a place dirty and messy is par for the course, don't be.  Rent your villa long-term and then you only have to deal with 'messy' and 'dirty' at the end of the long lease.

[FritsSikkink]

19 hours ago, mr_lob said:

Last year, a Thai group stayed in one of our villas - after check out the villa was left in a really bad state.

Appropriately, we gave him a poor review on airbnb - a simple 2 sentence statement that the villa was left very dirty and they didn't respect the place.

Now, months later, we received a court summons - the guy *who is a lawyer* accuses us of ''defamation through advertising is despised and hated.'' He said that because of our review, other hosts are not accepting his bookings.

Erm, that's the whole idea of the airbnb system!!

He is seeking damages of 300,000 baht. Yes, you read that right, 300k. For a 2 night stay which we got 10k and a filthy villa from.

 

Welcome any comments from anyone who has been in a similar situation!

 

Thanks guys

2 lessons to be learned:

 

1) Defaming people in Thailand can be costly

2) It is illegal in Thailand to rent out through AIRBNB for less than a month.

 

Do you pay tax over your rentals?

[LikeItHot]

Thais have no idea what sarcasm is. My review would have said " These tenants were number 1 for giving our cleaning staff the greatest challenge of their careers.  We want to thank them for putting their skills to the ultimate test.  The filthy bathrooms and kitchen were a welcomed but nearly insurmountable challenge.  They get the trophy for being the BEST of the WORST! CONGRATULATIONS 🎉🎉🎉 and THANK YOU for reminding us that people like you are out there!". He would have sent you a thank you note. 

[tgw]

2 hours ago, ChipButty said:

If you mean House Rules? each host has to write their own rules regarding check in and most host have their own check out rules, 

Like No Parties, No Smoking as a host you can put what you want within reason, 

 

no.

I mean airbnb terms of use which users of the platform have to agree to.

so, if using airbnb to book a room, you accept to be reviewed by the owner.

[mr_lob]

3 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Thanks. I wonder how many of the things you mention apply in this case.

We are a licensed resort and have been doing vacation rentals for 15 years

[tgw]

10 hours ago, eisfeld said:

 

Also worth checking if AirBnB ToS prevent people from sueing others for reviews. Seems like something they should have in there to protect their users, hosts and guests alike.

 

ToS can never cancel a right.

You can write whatever you want in ToS, people will always have the right to sue you.

[mr_lob]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

Airbnb should be banned imho. Skirting rental laws is not a business model. To the OP, it serves you right.  I hope you lose the case\.

Retardius, why do you assume we skirted rental laws? We are a licensed resort, we pay our taxes. So it serves us right??

[Wake Up1]

31 minutes ago, mr_lob said:

We are a licensed resort and have been doing vacation rentals for 15 years

Contact AirBnB and tell them you have been sued for giving a review. They probably have delt with this situation before and may offer guidance or connect you to a proper lawyer that others owners have used in the past. Best of luck. 

Edited February 3 by Wake Up1

[Guderian]

21 hours ago, mr_lob said:

For a 2 night stay which we got 10k and a filthy villa from.

 

Much as I sympathise with your situation vis-a-vis Thailand's daft defamation law, I just hope you realise that it's illegal to let a property for less than a month via Airbnb in Thailand? In the village where I live, we've occasionally had cases with people letting out their houses via Airbnb for short stays and the guests causing problems for permanent residents due to inconsiderate parking and making excessive noise at night. We've taken the owners responsible to court several times now and we always win as the law is clear, though as usual in Thailand getting people to enforce and respect it is a different matter.

[mr_lob]

Just now, Guderian said:

 

Much as I sympathise with your situation vis-a-vis Thailand's daft defamation law, I just hope you realise that it's illegal to let a property for less than a month via Airbnb in Thailand? In the village where I live, we've occasionally had cases with people letting out their houses via Airbnb for short stays and the guests causing problems for permanent residents due to inconsiderate parking and making excessive noise at night. We've taken the owners responsible to court several times now and we always win as the law is clear, though as usual in Thailand getting people to enforce and respect it is a different matter.

Not illegal in our case, we are a licensed resort. We checked all the legalities years ago regarding this.

[FruitPudding]

21 hours ago, nikmar said:

im not a solicitor and Ive never been in a similar position - but did you take photos of the villa afer he left?

 

That's irrelevant. 

[FruitPudding]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

   They left the place dirty and messy?  Big deal.  That's called running a hotel--which is what you are doing.  If you don't want to be in the hotel business, where guests leaving a place dirty and messy is par for the course, don't be.  Rent your villa long-term and then you only have to deal with 'messy' and 'dirty' at the end of the long lease.

 

I actually agree. 

 

Airbnb is ridiculous with its cleaning rules and cleaning fees.

 

That said they shouldn't wreck the place, obviously,  but the guests shouldn't be expected to clean or pay for cleaning 

Edited February 3 by FruitPudding

[FruitPudding]

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thats two concurrently running examples of the complete backwardness of Thailands defamation laws which are really a blight on the development of this nation we all care about. 

 

Please.....we are farang.

[FruitPudding]

3 hours ago, ChipButty said:

We bought our cleaner a new phone last year and showed her how to make video's 

 

Lol

[koolkarl]

Assuming you have evidence, I wouldn't hesitate to counter sue for damages, costs, etc.  This so called Thai lawyer is demonstrating their crude behaviour

that is evident on the roads daily.  Just the other day, I went to park my car legally on a side street.  Some guy comes out and tells me to move my car as a truck was coming.  I was still sitting in my car on the phone and when he went to walk away, he threatened to kick my car and I was parked on a public road.

 

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, LikeItHot said:

Thais have no idea what sarcasm is. My review would have said " These tenants were number 1 for giving our cleaning staff the greatest challenge of their careers.  We want to thank them for putting their skills to the ultimate test.  The filthy bathrooms and kitchen were a welcomed but nearly insurmountable challenge.  They get the trophy for being the BEST of the WORST! CONGRATULATIONS 🎉🎉🎉 and THANK YOU for reminding us that people like you are out there!". He would have sent you a thank you note. 

The problem with that funnyness is that the thai's are so over-sensitive about criticism that no matter how you word it, it can be construed by a court as defamation. That's why most people just say nothing without constructive dialog.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

 

ToS can never cancel a right.

You can write whatever you want in ToS, people will always have the right to sue you.

 

That is not universally true. You can for example contractually force arbitration before a suit can be issued for example. The whole point of contracts is to limit or grant rights. What would be the purpose of contracts if you could not limit rights? Of course they can't limit every right. You can also stipulate stuff like penalties to be paid in case of a suit. Or you can force a certain party to carry costs etc. There are many things that are possible.

[ChipButty]

2 hours ago, LikeItHot said:

Thais have no idea what sarcasm is. My review would have said " These tenants were number 1 for giving our cleaning staff the greatest challenge of their careers.  We want to thank them for putting their skills to the ultimate test.  The filthy bathrooms and kitchen were a welcomed but nearly insurmountable challenge.  They get the trophy for being the BEST of the WORST! CONGRATULATIONS 🎉🎉🎉 and THANK YOU for reminding us that people like you are out there!". He would have sent you a thank you note. 

I used to write "These guest would be more suited to a 5 star hotel on their next trip"

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, steven100 said:

Speak to your lawyer ....   see if you can counter-sue for cleaning charges,  as it took housekeeping hours to get the villa habitable again.

Yes, but is it really worthwhile taking more legal advice? Thai lawyers have a reputation for being very expensive.

[BenStark]

3 hours ago, retarius said:

Airbnb should be banned imho. Skirting rental laws is not a business model. To the OP, it serves you right.  I hope you lose the case\.

 

By reading your posts over the past few months, I always wondered if there is a 'd' missing in your forum name

[Nip]

As stated elsewhere the reasons and circumstances of this or any other defamation case in Thailand is irrelevant. It's gonna cost you to argue the toss. Give him back what you charged him and proffer the court a written apology. Most Judges just want to find an easy way out so give it to him. That is lodge the money and apology to the Court.

[fallup88]

If you want the easy way, reach out to the lawyer and talk it over nicely. Tell him you removed the review and let’s end this on a good note. 
 

 

If you want the unfortunate hard way and got money. Lawyer up and post your experience on Thai social media forums to pressure the lawyer. Of course you can’t mentioned the lawyer name.  At least get the public on your side first, nowadays public opinions can sway people to drop cases if it goes viral. And the lawyer can’t sue everyone. But since you don’t have photographic evidence it’s hard to sway the public, I suggest you avoid this route unless talking it over fails.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, koolkarl said:

Assuming you have evidence, I wouldn't hesitate to counter sue for damages, costs, etc.  This so called Thai lawyer is demonstrating their crude behaviour

that is evident on the roads daily.  Just the other day, I went to park my car legally on a side street.  Some guy comes out and tells me to move my car as a truck was coming.  I was still sitting in my car on the phone and when he went to walk away, he threatened to kick my car and I was parked on a public road.

 

Tell me, if you win a court case in Thailand, do you still have to pay court expenses plus your lawyer fee's? Would the company or person you win the case against not have to pay your lawyer fee's?