As Israel attacks Rafah, US offers only words of caution

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

(The last I saw was actually 67,000 or so.)

 

And where did you see that figure, or rather more poignantly, who supplied that figure ?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

45 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I can conclude, make correct assumptions

 

Misnomer of the thread so far, although I’m sure you will produce other contenders ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[WDSmart]

11 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

And where did you see that figure, or rather more poignantly, who supplied that figure ?

Here are the latest figures today and the link:
 

"Israel has continued its attacks across the Gaza Strip, including near hospitals and in the south of the besieged enclave, where ground operations are intensifying.

Here are the latest casualty figures as of February 9 at 11:30pm in Gaza (09:30 GMT):

Gaza

• Killed: at least 27,947 people, including more than:
  • 12,150 children
  • 8,300 women
• Injured: more than 67,459, including at least:
  • 8,663 children
  • 6,327 women
• Missing: more than 7,000"
  Israel-Gaza war in maps and charts: Live tracker | Israel War on Gaza News | Al Jazeera

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Here are the latest figures today and the link:
 

"Israel has continued its attacks across the Gaza Strip, including near hospitals and in the south of the besieged enclave, where ground operations are intensifying.

Here are the latest casualty figures as of February 9 at 11:30pm in Gaza (09:30 GMT):

Gaza

• Killed: at least 27,947 people, including more than:
  • 12,150 children
  • 8,300 women
• Injured: more than 67,459, including at least:
  • 8,663 children
  • 6,327 women
• Missing: more than 7,000"
  Israel-Gaza war in maps and charts: Live tracker | Israel War on Gaza News | Al Jazeera

So the figures come directly from Hamas then; fodder for the gullible and incurious 

[WDSmart]

10 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Misnomer of the thread so far, although I’m sure you will produce other contenders ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I disagree, but I'm sure I'll give you more to ponder... "_/(*)\_"

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

So the figures come directly from Hamas then; fodder for the gullible and incurious 

And, how would you characterize figures from the IDF? 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

14 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Here are the latest figures today and the link:
 

"Israel has continued its attacks across the Gaza Strip, including near hospitals and in the south of the besieged enclave, where ground operations are intensifying.

Here are the latest casualty figures as of February 9 at 11:30pm in Gaza (09:30 GMT):

Gaza

• Killed: at least 27,947 people, including more than:
  • 12,150 children
  • 8,300 women
• Injured: more than 67,459, including at least:
  • 8,663 children
  • 6,327 women
• Missing: more than 7,000"
  Israel-Gaza war in maps and charts: Live tracker | Israel War on Gaza News | Al Jazeera

 

So, no Hamas terrorists killed or injured in those Hamas supplied numbers, just the women and children they were sheltering behind / under; and you keep supporting this vile death cult, for which you obviously have your own reasons  ….. antisemitism maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

[WDSmart]

9 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

So, no Hamas terrorists killed or injured in those Hamas supplied numbers, just the women and children they were sheltering behind / under; and you keep supporting this vile death cult, for which you obviously have your own reasons  ….. antisemitism maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

No, those numbers didn't have a breakdown by civilians vs. militants or even Palestinians vs. Israelis. Just Killed and Injured by Total, Women, and Children, and Missing by Total.

No, I'm not antisemitic. I'm neither anti-Jew or anti-Arab.  "_/(*)\_"

 

Edited February 10 by WDSmart

[Eloquent pilgrim]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

No, those numbers didn't have a breakdown by civilians vs. militants or even Palestinians vs. Israelis. Just Killed and Injured by Total, Women, and Children, and Missing by Total.  "_/(*)\_"

 

How remarkably convenient for promoters of Hamas propaganda like yourself; must have been a simple oversight.

 

[WDSmart]

37 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

How remarkably convenient for promoters of Hamas propaganda like yourself; must have been a simple oversight.

 

I'm not a promoter of Hamas propaganda. I just didn't care about the breakdown. What difference does it make if those killed are deemed to have been Hamas terrorists by the IDF? They probably think every adult male is a Hamas terrorist, especially the ones they kill. And I assume most of these killed were killed by bombs, not in hand-to-hand combat, so IMO, the IDF's figures on the breakdown are inflated or, at best, optimistic estimates. The Hama figures, on the other hand, are not broken down by types of people, and that, too, may indeed be purposeful. 

My point is that we just don't know what the real figures are, but we can be sure that the numbers of the dead and wounded in Gaza are very, very high. 

Edited February 10 by WDSmart

[Morch]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

Here's more information for you...

I do not need to know all the details because I can conclude, make correct assumptions, and take appropriate actions by looking at the "big picture." I don't need to know all the details. I've had this ability my whole life, and my entire professional career was based on this.

 

Here's an example to explain it to you:

 

If I start to cross the street and look up and see a car bearing down on me at a high speed, I immediately step back on the curb.

I don't need to know the details: the make and year of the car, exactly how fast it is going, how many people are in it, what the driver's name is, etc. I immediately assess the situation and step back on the curb.

Do you understand now? Or do you need more details? 

 

All of the nonsense above testifies to two things:

 

(a) You have nothing much to contribute, other than ongoing nonsense, disruptions and off topic comments.

 

(b) You have mastered the fine art of being careful when crossing streets. Well done.

 

I'm not aware that your 'professional career' is in any way relevant to the topics at hand. I don't see how not knowing basic stuff about things discussed, or holding on to misguided notions regarding them is conductive to having a better point of view.

 

Just an extension of the same old my-opinion-is-good-as-fact nonsense.

[Morch]

44 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I'm not a promoter of Hamas propaganda. I just didn't care about the breakdown. What difference does it make if those killed are deemed to have been Hamas terrorists by the IDF? They probably think every adult male is a Hamas terrorist, especially the ones they kill. And I assume most of these killed were killed by bombs, not in hand-to-hand combat, so IMO, the IDF's figures on the breakdown are inflated or, at best, optimistic estimates. The Hama figures, on the other hand, are not broken down by types of people, and that, too, may indeed be purposeful. 

My point is that we just don't know what the real figures are, but we can be sure that the numbers of the dead and wounded in Gaza are very, very high. 

 

You post Hamas talking points. You even take things further than Hamas on some issues. You routinely go on about Israel, not so much about Hamas. You mischaracterize Israeli attitudes, policies, and political stances in a negative way. You routinely ignore the uncomfortable similar elements related to the Hamas and Palestinian points of view.

 

Here you go again with that 'they probably thing...'. You don't know what they think. You don't bother to check, read. Your assert that if it's your 'opinion', then it's good as true.

 

Your point is that you raise issues only with regard to IDF figures, but accept Hamas figures (ie propaganda) without much reservation.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

You post Hamas talking points. You even take things further than Hamas on some issues. You routinely go on about Israel, not so much about Hamas. You mischaracterize Israeli attitudes, policies, and political stances in a negative way. You routinely ignore the uncomfortable similar elements related to the Hamas and Palestinian points of view.

 

Here you go again with that 'they probably thing...'. You don't know what they think. You don't bother to check, read. Your assert that if it's your 'opinion', then it's good as true.

 

Your point is that you raise issues only with regard to IDF figures, but accept Hamas figures (ie propaganda) without much reservation.

Yes, it is strange how he sees things.........🤔

[simple1]

16 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Yawn. Seriously. You must be joking.

Can you cite many such comments directed at Hamas?

Not ones in which this is brought up in conjunction with Israel's actions?

 

Can you cite many such from Arab countries supposedly supporting the Palestinians?

 

 

 

 

 

The OP is not related to Arab countries response, but to USA.

[WDSmart]

It looks like another three or four (or maybe it will be recorded as 20) "Hamas terrorists" the IDF can add to their breakdown of the number of Palestinians they have successfully eliminated in Gaza. 

 

Five-year-old Palestinian girl found dead after being trapped in car under Israeli fire | CNN

[placeholder]

We've had some posters here scoffing at the notion that one of Israel's goals in this war is to drastically lower the Palestinian population of Gaza. I think at this point a good argument could be made that Israel has been gaslighting about its intentions. And it looks like Egypt is at least open to that argument:

Egypt Warily Eyes Gaza as War Builds Pressure on Its Border
Egypt has reinforced its frontier with Gaza and warned Israel that any move that would send Gazans spilling into Egyptian territory could jeopardize their decades-old peace treaty.

https://archive.ph/uMDBP

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/10/world/middleeast/egypt-gaza-israel-war.html

 

I anticipate a few counterarguments:

1)The mindreading argument: Egypt doesn't really believe this. It's just for public consumption

2) It's Hamas' fault: If Hamas surrendered, there would be no need to force Palestinians into Egypt.

3)Reversibility: Even if these refugees do flee across the border, that doesn't mean that Israel won't let them back in.

 

Keep in mind that during the early part of of the war, Israel actually negotiated with Egypt to allow refugees from Gaza to cross into Egypt. Egypt refused.

 

 

 

Edited February 11 by placeholder

[Neeranam]

17 hours ago, WDSmart said:

No, I didn't even know there was a Hamas official that reports the daily figures. I don't look for them daily, I just look them up on the Internet when I want to know the most recent total.

Ignore the trolls, buddy.

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Ignore the trolls, buddy.

 

 

says a troll 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

 

The OP is not related to Arab countries response, but to USA.

 

Your deflection aside, my comment holds anyway.

Most of the criticism, pleas and so on are directed at Israel.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Israel just want all Gazans to leave so they can steal more of their land

 

Liar

[Morch]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

It looks like another three or four (or maybe it will be recorded as 20) "Hamas terrorists" the IDF can add to their breakdown of the number of Palestinians they have successfully eliminated in Gaza. 

 

Five-year-old Palestinian girl found dead after being trapped in car under Israeli fire | CNN

 

Coming from someone who just advocated Hamas hold on to Israeli children taken hostage for as long as possible, releasing them last - kinda hard to take your 'concern' and 'outrage' at face value.

[Morch]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

We've had some posters here scoffing at the notion that one of Israel's goals in this war is to drastically lower the Palestinian population of Gaza. I think at this point a good argument could be made that Israel has been gaslighting about its intentions. And it looks like Egypt is at least open to that argument:

Egypt Warily Eyes Gaza as War Builds Pressure on Its Border
Egypt has reinforced its frontier with Gaza and warned Israel that any move that would send Gazans spilling into Egyptian territory could jeopardize their decades-old peace treaty.

https://archive.ph/uMDBP

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/10/world/middleeast/egypt-gaza-israel-war.html

 

I anticipate a few counterarguments:

1)The mindreading argument: Egypt doesn't really believe this. It's just for public consumption

2) It's Hamas' fault: If Hamas surrendered, there would be no need to force Palestinians into Egypt.

3)Reversibility: Even if these refugees do flee across the border, that doesn't mean that Israel won't let them back in.

 

Keep in mind that during the early part of of the war, Israel actually negotiated with Egypt to allow refugees from Gaza to cross into Egypt. Egypt refused.

 

 

 

 

And them counterarguments you outline are to the point. Your assertions, not so much.

keep in mind that after Egypt refused, Israel neither tried to do so anyway, nor was the subject featured much later on.

[Bkk Brian]

17 minutes ago, placeholder said:

We've had some posters here scoffing at the notion that one of Israel's goals in this war is to drastically lower the Palestinian population of Gaza. I think at this point a good argument could be made that Israel has been gaslighting about its intentions. And it looks like Egypt is at least open to that argument:

Egypt Warily Eyes Gaza as War Builds Pressure on Its Border
Egypt has reinforced its frontier with Gaza and warned Israel that any move that would send Gazans spilling into Egyptian territory could jeopardize their decades-old peace treaty.

https://archive.ph/uMDBP

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/10/world/middleeast/egypt-gaza-israel-war.html

 

I anticipate a few counterarguments:

1)The mindreading argument: Egypt doesn't really believe this. It's just for public consumption

2) It's Hamas' fault: If Hamas surrendered, there would be no need to force Palestinians into Egypt.

3)Reversibility: Even if these refugees do flee across the border, that doesn't mean that Israel won't let them back in.

 

Keep in mind that during the early part of of the war, Israel actually negotiated with Egypt to allow refugees from Gaza to cross into Egypt. Egypt refused.

 

 

 

Egypt has been reinforcing border for some time, first reported back in middle Dec, not exactly news

 

Egypt under growing pressure as displaced Gazans crowd the border

https://archive.ph/fGVEk

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/19/egypt-gaza-refugees-displaced-israel/

 

[metisdead]

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[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

More insults reflect your inablitity to have a grown up conversation.

Do you deny Netanyahu wants all Gazans out of Gaza?

Do you believe Netanyahu govt is right wing?

 

Maybe time to phone a friend 😉

Netanyahu reported to be lobbying EU governments to pressure Egypt to take in refugees

https://www.timesofisrael.com/intelligence-ministry-concept-paper-proposes-transferring-gazans-to-egypts-sinai/

Dated Oct 31st. Time to let go and move on. Didn't happen. Although I think Scotland has room for at least a million 

[retarius]

Blinken is a sock puppet. US needs to cut all ties with Israel and all aid; and kick the dual citizens (US/Israeli or US/Anywhere else) out of Congress and the Senate. Enough all ready. I don't want my tax dollars to go to support massacres of Palestinian women and children. How can a 2000lb cluster bomb be called aid????????????

[Eloquent pilgrim]

6 minutes ago, retarius said:

How can a 2000lb cluster bomb be called aid????????????

Could you please tell me where and when a 2,000 lb cluster bomb was used …. many thanks

[placeholder]

31 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Egypt has been reinforcing border for some time, first reported back in middle Dec, not exactly news

 

Egypt under growing pressure as displaced Gazans crowd the border

https://archive.ph/fGVEk

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/19/egypt-gaza-refugees-displaced-israel/

 

Another reflexive counter argument. What is news is that Israel is apparently planning to launch a major assault on Rafah where roughly 1.45 million Palestinians have sought refuge. You think that's irrelevant to Egypt's fear about Mass cross-border immigration? That it doesn't change the odds?

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Another reflexive counter argument. What is news is that Israel is apparently planning to launch a major assault on Rafah where roughly 1.45 million Palestinians have sought refuge. You think that's irrelevant to Egypt's fear about Mass cross-border immigration? That it doesn't change the odds?

Yes correct on that one. The plan is to rid Rafah of terrorist infastructure. Egypts fear has been around for weeks as my link demonstrated

[placeholder]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Yes correct on that one. The plan is to rid Rafah of terrorist infastructure. Egypts fear has been around for weeks as my link demonstrated

Do ya think their fears have gotten stronger, stayed the same, or gotten weaker since Israel announced its intentions to stage in a major operation in Rafah?