Race discrimination

[Felton Jarvis]

It is not only legal, it is written right into the Thai constitution. "Thailand is for Thai people".

Edited February 16 by Felton Jarvis

[youreavinalaff]

44 minutes ago, retarius said:

Please cite your extensive knowledge or source for such a statement.

I have been employed as interpreter in court cases between Thais and foreigners.

 

All cases were heard fairly and the verdict not against one side because of nationality.

[soi3eddie]

2 hours ago, uttradit said:

Then entry price should be free for foreigners.

 

My thoughts too. Why should foreigners pay an entry fee if they cannot win prize money!

 

Edited February 16 by soi3eddie

[daejung]

On 2/15/2024 at 2:45 PM, Peter60 said:

We ran mini-marathons in Isaan over the last 2 years.   The competitions are well-managed, and the camaraderie is good.  I always feel welcome as a farang sharing an event with Thais.  I run for pleasure rather than trophies or prize money but this year several events have advertised that prize money is only for Thai competitors not FOREIGNERS.  Farangs can compete but will not share any prizes, even finishing first, second or third.

I want to ask this forum is this legal?   

 

Foreigner is not a race... No "race" discrimination

[Kinnock]

8 minutes ago, daejung said:

 

Foreigner is not a race... No "race" discrimination

But marathons are a race 😀

 

There's been several big running events in Chonburi that specifically mentioned the top international runners taking part (won by a Kenyan I think). 

 

And this weekend in Bangsaen is an international Iron Man competition.  So I guess it depends on the aims of the sponsor rather than any racism.

[kenjinuk]

International events are open to all runners. The entry fee covers a finisher medal T-shirt and food. Thank you to all the witty and informed answers🤔

[newnative]

   Thai is not a race.  Neither is foreigner.  You are confusing nationality with race.  Prize money is reserved for Thai citizens.  I see nothing wrong with that--it's nice they are letting foreigners compete, in my opinion.  If it bothers you, don't compete.

[youreavinalaff]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

   Thai is not a race.  Neither is foreigner.  You are confusing nationality with race.  Prize money is reserved for Thai citizens.  I see nothing wrong with that--it's nice they are letting foreigners compete, in my opinion.  If it bothers you, don't compete.

That would depend on the wording.

 

If the rule is "No prize money for Farang", then it is racial.

[youreavinalaff]

15 hours ago, daejung said:

 

Foreigner is not a race... No "race" discrimination

Did they say "foreigner" or "farang"?

[Barnet1900]

Is it right? No. Would it happen in many of our countries? No. Do they give a monkey's for dual-pricing, various foreign targeted income? No.

 

Regardless of whose country it is the answer is that it's morally wrong. The best person wins and that person should claim the prize.

 

Pretty straightforward really but the overriding fact is that this is Thai culture whether we like it not.

 

I personally can't stand this kind of attitude wherever it is operates.

 

I'd recommend avoiding the competition altogether or taking the upper stand and partake. I dare say many of the participants don't agree with the rule.

 

A man can can suffer ignorance and smile. Impossible for many, including me, but just have to lump it out here sadly. 

 

The only way they address the situation is when it becomes big on social media, which the Chinese seem to be latching onto very quickly.

[BTB1977]

Prepare 3 trophies?  1st, 2nd and 3rd. Depending on where you finished present yourself with one. In front of everyone.  Thais will never loose face to a farang. 

[newnative]

7 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

That would depend on the wording.

 

If the rule is "No prize money for Farang", then it is racial.

    My definination of 'farang' is a foreigner, someone who is not a Thai citizen.  One definition I saw on the internet was:  'A European or other foreigner'.  'European' is not a race, neither is 'foreigner'.  So, still not racial.  Certainly it could be seen as discriminating against non-Thai citizens but it's not racial discrimination unless specific races are singled out and treated differently. 

     A foreign runner who comes in first but receives no prize money might be considered to be discriminated against, but not because of race, but rather because he or she is not a Thai citizen, and does not qualify for prize money.  One caveat:  Should the race organizers define 'farang' in your above rule to mean only white or Black runners, that would be racist.

    Amateurs competing in PGA golf tournaments do not collect any prize money if they win a tournament.  Only professional golfers qualify for prize money.  Is that racist?  No.  'Amateur' is not a race.   Is it possibly discriminating against amateurs?  Maybe--but those are the rules.  Pretty much the same thing for the Thai race--those are the rules.

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

    My definination of 'farang' is a foreigner, someone who is not a Thai citizen.  One definition I saw on the internet was:  'A European or other foreigner'.  'European' is not a race, neither is 'foreigner'.  So, still not racial.  Certainly it could be seen as discriminating against non-Thai citizens but it's not racial discrimination unless specific races are singled out and treated differently. 

     A foreign runner who comes in first but receives no prize money might be considered to be discriminated against, but not because of race, but rather because he or she is not a Thai citizen, and does not qualify for prize money.  One caveat:  Should the race organizers define 'farang' in your above rule to mean only white or Black runners, that would be racist.

    Amateurs competing in PGA golf tournaments do not collect any prize money if they win a tournament.  Only professional golfers qualify for prize money.  Is that racist?  No.  'Amateur' is not a race.   Is it possibly discriminating against amateurs?  Maybe--but those are the rules.  Pretty much the same thing for the Thai race--those are the rules.

Farang refers to white foriegner. I would say that's a race.

[ozimoron]

43 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Farang refers to white foriegner. I would say that's a race.

 

Thais do not generally consider the word farang to be any more than a neutral world and do not intend or consider its use to be racist.

[daveAustin]

On 2/15/2024 at 3:40 PM, worgeordie said:

Then you complain when you cannot get the prize money , its their country

so it's their rules ....

 

regards Worgeordie

Derr. He’s making a point. Whether competing or not, this would piss me off too. They possibly don’t want foreigners running with them, but are likely doing it to avoid serious runners coming in and routinely nicking all the proceeds. Thais don’t like us taking their land either 😋.

If it shakes you up, tell them you don’t like being singled out and stop running with that wishy washy group. 

[quake]

Thailand -2.0  

[Skipalongcassidy]

On 2/16/2024 at 7:48 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

 

He didn't complain. He asked if it was legal. There's a difference.

I also heard the whine in his op

[digbeth]

I've seen case where organizer would claim that insurance for foreigner is more expensive, or opt out of having insurance for foreigners at all, but I've never seen where foreigner can't win the prize

 

even if they exclude all foreigners from certain prize, you can hardly claim it's racial discrimination as african athletes are equally excluded as european ones 

[Scouse123]

On 2/16/2024 at 11:52 AM, uttradit said:

Then entry price should be free for foreigners.

 

 

Touche!

[Pouatchee]

On 2/15/2024 at 4:48 PM, VinnieK said:

Maybe we should sue their a$$ everytime we face discrimination.

There must be some clause in the constitution to that effect.

 

only possibility is defamation... and i'll bet foreigners cannot even sue a thai for defamation...

[CDG931]

 

 

Oh there is no racism in Europe?

I have been called "Chinetoke" in France all my life. 

 

Never really bothered me, as I have a lot of contempt for these people

 

 

Edited February 18 by CDG931

[gomangosteen]

All the armchair / barstool athletes here, surprised how many! 

 

This morning I competed in a running event, came home with a trophy for age group prize.

 

Prize money was for overall 1st to 3rd male and female in each event, great to see so many talented young athletes in a field of around 900 starters, 1st in the 10km went to a 14yr girl and 18yr boy, both representing their athletic clubs.

 

Understand the main sponsor M-Seven put up 300,000 baht towards the event, supported by local amphurs as the event was to fundraise for Chanthaburi youth athletics. Like a rock concert we started with smoke machines (but I thought the stage was in fire) and fireworks displays at 5.30am.

 

And I got a good cheer at prizegiving, "the man from New Zealand" was apparently the only non-Thai competitor. Very very briefly I had minor celebrity status.

 

Suggest any moaners just read the conditions of entry for any event, set your whinge-o-meter back to zero and don't bother to enter if the organisation's rules bothers you so much. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gomangosteen]

4 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Derr. He’s making a point. Whether competing or not, this would piss me off too. They possibly don’t want foreigners running with them, but are likely doing it to avoid serious runners coming in and routinely nicking all the proceeds. Thais don’t like us taking their land either 😋.

If it shakes you up, tell them you don’t like being singled out and stop running with that wishy washy group. 

No, it's the organisations and sponsors' right to determine where prize money is allocated, and this is set out in conditions of entry.

 

Don't like it, *$#@ off! though I doubt 95% on this board could run across a single lane road.

 

I've been involved in sport at various levels, to semi-professional full-time athlete across NZ, Aust: continued in Malaysia / Thailand, now purely amateur for enjoyment, every event provides rules, restrictions and conditions of entry. I've been ineligible for cash or 'lucky draw' spot prizes at events specific to that country. This is how it is.

[youreavinalaff]

10 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Thais do not generally consider the word farang to be any more than a neutral world and do not intend or consider its use to be racist.

I agree. I've never said they do.

[digbeth]

if there's cash prizes, I can see the organizer won't bother with how to do a withholding tax for foreigner and potentially non-residents, for the big marathon maybe they can afford it, but for local provincial or amphur level events, forget it, but the participation medals/bibs shouldn't be any different 

[youreavinalaff]

5 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

 

only possibility is defamation... and i'll bet foreigners cannot even sue a thai for defamation...

I'll take that bet. How about 1 000 000 baht?

 

Tell me where we can meet for me to collect the money.

 

Thanks.

[recom273]

On 2/15/2024 at 8:00 PM, gomangosteen said:

Buriram had 'best of Thailand ' additional prize money, as did the Bang Saen half marathon in December 

 

If sponsors wish to donate to support local athletes, that's their choice

 

I've competed in five Chanthaburi events in past three months - I'd probably support the 'no foreigner prize money' these are local events, locally sponsored, one in November was cleaned out by visiting Kenyans who took every cash prize, just popped in for a warm-up!

 

Sunday I'm running again, I may suggest a special 'good farang' prize for me as they used my image (with consent) in promotional material advertising the race. This is a fundraiser for Chanthaburi Youth Athletics Club, fully sponsored my M-7 apparel, much appreciated.

 

Edit. Just a note here, in my full-time triathlete/ ocean swim days I (NZ) entered numerous Australian events where prizes were for Oz entrants only. Sponsors prerogative.

 

I was just about to say, afaik the foreign runners (apart from western fun runners) that are here are competitive / pro African runners, they travel over SEA and compete for the prize money, lol. Not that I know anything about it, but aren't they recruited / paid to run for clubs or are they pace setters? There were a few in Hat Yai, you would see them at immigration, along with the Cameroon football players, they were there for their visa extensions based upon work (legally) and had work permits.

 

I do see that there should be a best of Thailand prize because as mentioned, its just a bit of a Sunday morning jog for the Africans, but the marathon organizers are shooting themselves in the foot, perhaps its is racial and they no longer want the Africans taking the pot.

Edited February 18 by recom273

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[ozimoron]

It's pretty obvious what's going on here. Thailand doesn't have professional marathon runners or iron man competitors and while they don't want to discourage international runners from coming to Thailand to compete for the trophies and the glory they likewise don't want the foreign professionals from cleaning up the m0oney and disincentivizing local sports. It's also worth noting that many of these prodfessionals got to be professionals on the back og government support for sports in their richer home or adopted countries.

 

My gym trainer runs in almost all these events, marathon and iron man.

 

tl:dr; nothing to see here.

Edited February 18 by ozimoron

[cooked]

Prize money? I get lumps of engraved lumps of wood occasionally, called 'prizes'. (Half marathons and marathons).

International runners: there are different classes of marathons, from bronze to platinum, and I believe that one of the qualifiers for race organisers is that they have a certain number of elite runners from a certain number of countries.

 

IAAF Road Race Labels - Regulations 8 October 2012 4.2 Races may offer specific incentive place prizes to nationals of the host country to encourage national participation and development.

 

So they want that "Gold Label" appellation in order to have more competitors, at the same time they realise that (probably) no Thai will be winning. Seems fair enough to me.

 

What's not fair?

Farangs often have to pay more than the Thais for race entry.

Age groups: Many races have age groups ending at "50+" which is discouraging if you're my age, 76. If there's a "60+" age group I might just get a prize. The whole idea of these athletic endeavours is supposed to be to encourage health, and stuff like this just discourages older runners. I think anybody over 75 that completes a foot race should get a prize!