Despite U.S. pressure, the idea of a Palestinian state seems farther away than ever

[Nick Carter icp]

51 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

RAFAH, Gaza Strip — Israeli troops fired on a large crowd of Palestinians racing to pull food off an aid convoy in Gaza City on Thursday, witnesses said. More than 100 people were killed in the chaos, bringing the death toll since the start of the Israel-Hamas war to more than 30,000, according to health officials.

 

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/29/1234906745/gaza-food-aid-convoy-israel-hamas

 

   That doesn't back up the claim that 100 Palestinians died of gunshot wounds , about 80 were said to have died after being run over by the trucks or killed in the stamped .

   The false claim was that they all died of gunshot wounds 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

Again, another "one word makes all the difference" modification to your declaration above to make it correct (IMO): "...if you agree that Israel should be a homeland ONLY for Jewish people , then you are a Zionist."

 

   Rather contradictory there , you make a statement claiming it to be factual and then add "In my opinion" , which means its just your opinion and not an actual fact 

[Jeff the Chef]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That doesn't back up the claim that 100 Palestinians died of gunshot wounds , about 80 were said to have died after being run over by the trucks or killed in the stamped .

   The false claim was that they all died of gunshot wounds 

Read the full link, and I quote from it the following:

 

Israeli officials acknowledged their troops opened fire on the Gaza City crowd Thursday, saying they did so after the crowd approached in a threatening way. The officials insisted on anonymity to give details about what happened, after the Israeli military said in a statement that "dozens were killed and injured from pushing, trampling and being run over by the trucks."

 

Kamel Abu Nahel, who was being treated for a gunshot wound at Shifa Hospital, said he and others went to the distribution point in the middle of the night because they heard there would be a delivery of food. "We've been eating animal feed for two months," he said.

He said Israeli troops opened fire on the crowd as people pulled boxes of flour and canned goods off the trucks, causing them to scatter, with some hiding under cars.

 

After the shooting stopped, people went back to the trucks, and the soldiers opened fire again. He was shot in the leg and fell over, and then a truck ran over his leg as it sped off, he said.

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, Jeff the Chef said:

Read the full link, and I quote from it the following:

 

Israeli officials acknowledged their troops opened fire on the Gaza City crowd Thursday, saying they did so after the crowd approached in a threatening way. The officials insisted on anonymity to give details about what happened, after the Israeli military said in a statement that "dozens were killed and injured from pushing, trampling and being run over by the trucks."

 

Kamel Abu Nahel, who was being treated for a gunshot wound at Shifa Hospital, said he and others went to the distribution point in the middle of the night because they heard there would be a delivery of food. "We've been eating animal feed for two months," he said.

He said Israeli troops opened fire on the crowd as people pulled boxes of flour and canned goods off the trucks, causing them to scatter, with some hiding under cars.

 

After the shooting stopped, people went back to the trucks, and the soldiers opened fire again. He was shot in the leg and fell over, and then a truck ran over his leg as it sped off, he said.

 

   The link doesn't state that 100 Palestinians were killed by gunshot wounds

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Zionism is the problem, your so called millions of enemies are there because of Israel's failure to comply with UN resolutions.

One of the problems is trying to mask antisemitism by using the term Zionist. We all know how often its used that way and the Jews do not like it used as a form of hate speech directed that them. 

 

"Nowadays, the word Zionist is often used as a swearword. As a negative label."

https://www.annefrank.org/en/topics/antisemitism/are-all-jews-zionists/

 

House Passes Resolution Declaring Anti-Zionism A Form Of Antisemitism—Some Democrats Are Critical

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/05/house-passes-resolution-declaring-anti-zionism-a-form-of-antisemitism-some-democrats-are-critical/

 

'We all know that anti-Zionism is Antisemitism and if you do not support Zionism, than you do not support Jews'

https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1760046831155745105

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Read the full link, and I quote from it the following:

 

Israeli officials acknowledged their troops opened fire on the Gaza City crowd Thursday, saying they did so after the crowd approached in a threatening way. The officials insisted on anonymity to give details about what happened, after the Israeli military said in a statement that "dozens were killed and injured from pushing, trampling and being run over by the trucks."

 

Kamel Abu Nahel, who was being treated for a gunshot wound at Shifa Hospital, said he and others went to the distribution point in the middle of the night because they heard there would be a delivery of food. "We've been eating animal feed for two months," he said.

He said Israeli troops opened fire on the crowd as people pulled boxes of flour and canned goods off the trucks, causing them to scatter, with some hiding under cars.

 

After the shooting stopped, people went back to the trucks, and the soldiers opened fire again. He was shot in the leg and fell over, and then a truck ran over his leg as it sped off, he said.

"We've been eating animal feed for two months," he said.

 

He must have missed the previous 4 convoys that same week, either that or he's telling porkies.

 

Israel was involved in organizing at least four such aid convoys to northern Gaza this past week

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/02/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news

https://archive.ph/P2uMM

[WDSmart]

14 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Rather contradictory there , you make a statement claiming it to be factual and then add "In my opinion" , which means its just your opinion and not an actual fact 

Why do you think my opinion could not be an actual fact? The majority of them are, or they eventually become so.
 

[WDSmart]

47 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That doesn't back up the claim that 100 Palestinians died of gunshot wounds , about 80 were said to have died after being run over by the trucks or killed in the stamped .

   The false claim was that they all died of gunshot wounds 

The order of events is unclear, but the 100 people mentioned above were either shot or run over by trucks or the mob -- or all three. The gunshots were a crucial factor, as they not only took lives but also triggered the panic that made the trucks drive away and the crowds stampede, running over and trampling people in the process.
 

Edited March 4 by WDSmart

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Why do you think my opinion could not be an actual fact? The majority of them are, or they eventually become so.
 

 

   Because Zionism doesn't actually mean a homeland just for Jewish people , that is just your imagination as to what the word means 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

Simply put, Zionism is a movement to recreate a Jewish presence in Israel. The name comes from the word “Zion,” which is a Hebrew term that refers to Jerusalem. Throughout history, Jews have considered certain areas in Israel sacred—as do Christians and Muslims.

 

As I said, I'm anti- Zionist because I cannot agree with what the Zionists are doing to the indigenous people of the area, or by the force that Israel has used since 1948, also their failure to comply with UN resolutions.

 

There are millions of Zionists around the World that have done nothing to do with what's being done to "the indigenous people of the area", that have had nothing to do with "the force that Israel has used since 1948" and nothing to do with any so called "failure to comply with UN resolutions". 

 

While I do not agree with your false claims, even if they were true, your beef is with Israel, not with Zionists.

It is Israel that is in a war with Palestine, not Zionists.

It is Irael that has used force against their enemies since 1948, not Zionists. 

It is Israel that is responsible for complying with UN resolutions, not Zionists. 

 

The is just calling Zionists and Netanyahu and the "far right" for the war, to hide the fact that they actually hate Israel, and they hate Jews. 

[WDSmart]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

One of the problems is trying to mask antisemitism by using the term Zionist. We all know how often its used that way and the Jews do not like it used as a form of hate speech directed that them. 

 

"Nowadays, the word Zionist is often used as a swearword. As a negative label."

https://www.annefrank.org/en/topics/antisemitism/are-all-jews-zionists/

 

House Passes Resolution Declaring Anti-Zionism A Form Of Antisemitism—Some Democrats Are Critical

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/12/05/house-passes-resolution-declaring-anti-zionism-a-form-of-antisemitism-some-democrats-are-critical/

 

'We all know that anti-Zionism is Antisemitism and if you do not support Zionism, than you do not support Jews'

https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1760046831155745105

 

 

 

 

"One of the problems is trying to mask antisemitism by using the term Zionist. We all know how often its used that way and the Jews do not like it used as a form of hate speech directed that them."

I liken the term "Zionist" to the term "Hamas." Neither represents the entirely, or probably even the majority, of the peoples they represent. But, they do have the leadership roles in both societies right now.

[WDSmart]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

10 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Why do you think my opinion could not be an actual fact? The majority of them are, or they eventually become so.
 

 

   Because Zionism doesn't actually mean a homeland just for Jewish people , that is just your imagination as to what the word means 

Definition of Zionism from the online Oxford Language dictionary:
"a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel."

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

"One of the problems is trying to mask antisemitism by using the term Zionist. We all know how often its used that way and the Jews do not like it used as a form of hate speech directed that them."

I liken the term "Zionist" to the term "Hamas." Neither represents the entirely, or probably even the majority, of the peoples they represent. But, they do have the leadership roles in both societies right now.

Yes, but you really seem to know nothing about it, and just make up your own definitions, you've already admitted that. 

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, WDSmart said:

Definition of Zionism from the online Oxford Language dictionary:
"a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel."

 

   Yes, I know . 

It doesn't say *for Jews only*, as you claimed it did 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Definition of Zionism from the online Oxford Language dictionary:
"a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel."

"It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann."

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

"One of the problems is trying to mask antisemitism by using the term Zionist. We all know how often its used that way and the Jews do not like it used as a form of hate speech directed that them."

I liken the term "Zionist" to the term "Hamas." Neither represents the entirely, or probably even the majority, of the peoples they represent. But, they do have the leadership roles in both societies right now.

I don't do your reality. I do that of experts.

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Definition of Zionism from the online Oxford Language dictionary:
"a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel."

What about the Zionists that want a 2 state solution?

[Jeff the Chef]

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

There are millions of Zionists around the World that have done nothing to do with what's being done to "the indigenous people of the area", that have had nothing to do with "the force that Israel has used since 1948" and nothing to do with any so called "failure to comply with UN resolutions".

 

Yes, most of them living in the US, supporting AIPAC, MSM and giving full support to Israel's No 1 fan the good ole US of A and their beloved UN Veto.

21 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

While I do not agree with your false claims, even if they were true, your beef is with Israel, not with Zionists.

It is Israel that is in a war with Palestine, not Zionists.

It is Irael that has used force against their enemies since 1948, not Zionists. 

It is Israel that is responsible for complying with UN resolutions, not Zionists

 

Israel is a Zionist nationalistic movement.

 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zionism

27 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

The is just calling Zionists and Netanyahu and the "far right" for the war, to hide the fact that they actually hate Israel, and they hate Jews.

 

Not anywhere near the truth, as far as I'm concerned the Worldwide hate is because of what the Zionist State of Israel has been doing since 1948, which today, social media coverage is not letting them get away with their constant lies and inuendo.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Yes, most of them living in the US, supporting AIPAC, MSM and giving full support to Israel's No 1 fan the good ole US of A and their beloved UN Veto.

 

Israel is a Zionist nationalistic movement.

 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zionism

 

Not anywhere near the truth, as far as I'm concerned the Worldwide hate is because of what the Zionist State of Israel has been doing since 1948, which today, social media coverage is not letting them get away with their constant lies and inuendo.

Why did Palestine in 1947 refuse to adopt the UN partition plan that offered to establish two states, one Jewish, the other Arab. You seem to be very concerned with everything the UN does or states

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The link doesn't state that 100 Palestinians were killed by gunshot wounds

My information indicates most of the casualties were caused by crowd panic trampling.

But the pro Hamas river to the sea brigade smell another  incident to exploit for Israel demonization proganda.

They're winning that part of this war.

Edited March 4 by Jingthing

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

Definition of Zionism from the online Oxford Language dictionary:
"a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel."

What about the Zionists that want a 2 state solution?

I suppose the Zionists could have various sub-factions that have different ideas as to how to succeed in the "development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel." I've never heard of any that would accept a two-state solution. If there are, I hope they start speaking up more firmly, especially right now when the negotiations for a temporary ceasefire and return of some hostages/prisoners are being discussed.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I suppose the Zionists could have various sub-factions that have different ideas as to how to succeed in the "development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel." I've never heard of any that would accept a two-state solution. If there are, I hope they start speaking up more firmly, especially right now when the negotiations for a temporary ceasefire and return of some hostages/prisoners are being discussed.

But you said Zionists are the same as Hamas? Your realty playing tricks on you again.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

But you said Zionists are the same as Hamas? Your realty playing tricks on you again.

 

Both are committed to wiping out the other and both oppose a nation state for the other. Both have committed war crimes. What are we missing here?

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Both are committed to wiping out the other and both oppose a nation state for the other. Both have committed war crimes. What are we missing here?

What are we missing here?

 

What you are missing is not reading the string of posts and jumping in at the end without reading the context. Try again.

Edited March 4 by Bkk Brian

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

What are we missing here?

 

What you are missing is not reading the string of posts and jumping in at the end without reading the context. Try again.

 

always the same. Never an attempt to justify your point of view or rebut any argument before you launch your next personal jibe.

[WDSmart]

49 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why did Palestine in 1947 refuse to adopt the UN partition plan that offered to establish two states, one Jewish, the other Arab. You seem to be very concerned with everything the UN does or states

Of course, no one can say for sure, even the "experts" on this subject, but I suspect it was because it was just before 1948 (why do some here cite 1947? See the link at the end of this post.), the Palestinians occupied the land and made up about 60% of the population, and the Jews only made up about 30% of the population. The Palestinains considered it there land and did not like some third party (the UN) giving a little over half of it to the Jews.

The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel | Ministry of Foreign Affairs (www.gov.il)

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

always the same. Never an attempt to justify your point of view or rebut any argument before you launch your next personal jibe.

You asked what was missing. I told you.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Of course, no one can say for sure, even the "experts" on this subject, but I suspect it was because it was just before 1948 (why do some here cite 1947? See the link at the end of this post.), the Palestinians occupied the land and made up about 60% of the population, and the Jews only made up about 30% of the population. The Palestinains considered it there land and did not like some third party (the UN) giving a little over half of it to the Jews.

The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel | Ministry of Foreign Affairs (www.gov.il)

The came along Yasser Arafat to dash any further hopes of 2 states

[WDSmart]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The came along Yasser Arafat to dash any further hopes of 2 states

Do you mean the Yasser Arafat who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994? 

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Both are committed to wiping out the other and both oppose a nation state for the other. Both have committed war crimes. What are we missing here?

You're missing understanding what Zionism is.