Historians rank Trump as worst president

[Dolf]

51 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Trump is losing it, before our eyes.

Is he? If he died what would you talk about? You seem to worry about Trump more than anything else.

[Danderman123]

15 hours ago, Dolf said:

The working class likes Trump. The elites, wokes, marxists and decaf latte drinkers don't.

 

Trump is ahead in the polls because the working class like him.

 

Posting fear mongering stuff on the internet won't change it.

 

The working class want him back.

The working class, in the form of labor unions, are going to campaign for Biden later this year. They will knock on millions of doors.

 

Conversely, the Republicans have to hire campaign staff, and because of the "Trump is crazy" thing, they can't get so many donors to kick in cash - especially when donors are aware that Trump is going to grab their cash for himself.

 

So, I guess you are going to have to make up the difference.

[thaicurious]

2 hours ago, Dolf said:

 If he died what would you talk about?

 

Right, and we know that to be true because there's still so much chatter about worst POTUS #45 Trump's betters #42 Pierce, #43 Johnson & #44 Buchanan. They never will be missed.

 

"...if I should ever be called upon to act professionally, I'm happy to think there will be no difficulty in finding plenty of people whose loss will a distinct gain to society at large....

 

I've got a little list — I've got a little list

Of society offenders who might well be underground
And who never would be missed — who never would be missed!" --Ko-Ko, the Lord High Executioner, Gilbert & Sullivan's The Mikado*

 

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mikado

Edited February 22 by thaicurious

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Dolf said:

Is he? If he died what would you talk about? You seem to worry about Trump more than anything else.

Only until November.

 

I plan to return to the US later this year to work on the Biden campaign.

 

 

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, Dolf said:

Talking up a guy who had 4.8 to 9.9 % unemployment 

I think you have that sequence of numbers backwards.

 

More to the point, Obama had a series of accomplishments that far outweigh Trump's laziness. Of course, Trump failing to do much was actually a plus.

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, Dolf said:

Yes Biden has done a good job on unemployment so he gets 1 tick. But he gets crosses on inflation, border control and dealing with wars. So 1/4 satisfactory level. Trump got 4/4 ticks.

How does Trump score on respect for election outcomes and defense of democracy?

[Skipalongcassidy]

22 hours ago, stevenl said:

 .

So you have an opinion and stick to it, no matter what.

If I post a source... which is available to anybody who is smart enough to use google... will you read it or do the usual liberal left turn and just deride the source?  That's the problem with the forum rule on sources... it becomes about your OPINION ABOUT the source...

"So you have an opinion and stick to it, no matter what"... right?

[scorecard]

On 2/22/2024 at 1:41 AM, Danderman123 said:

Define "Marxist" views.

Waiting for dolf to define (his definition) of marxist views. 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

If I post a source... which is available to anybody who is smart enough to use google... will you read it or do the usual liberal left turn and just deride the source?  That's the problem with the forum rule on sources... it becomes about your OPINION ABOUT the source...

"So you have an opinion and stick to it, no matter what"... right?

That's the problem with untrustworthy/unreliable sources. 

[morrobay]

Trump worst president says the military industrial complex. Bush: Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama: Syria and Libya. Biden: Ukraine  plus Obama https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy

[Danderman123]

17 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Trump worst president says the military industrial complex. 

Do you have a link to back up your fantasy?

[thaicurious]

7 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Trump worst president says the military industrial complex. Bush: Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama: Syria and Libya. Biden: Ukraine  plus Obama https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy

 

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2021/01/20/trump-the-anti-war-president-was-always-a-myth/

"Trump the anti-war president was always a myth

Let the record show: Trump poured fuel on our endless wars and kicked diplomacy to the curb...

 

Donald Trump ended his term in office just as he started it: lying about being “anti-war.”

 

...But with four years of accumulated evidence all pointing in the same direction, it’s time to kill this myth once and for all. Sure, Donald Trump didn’t launch a new all-out ground invasion on the scale of Iraq. But he did escalate conflict in every theatre of war he inherited, repeatedly brought the country to the brink of new wars, and recklessly threw around U.S. power with no regard for the many lives it would cost. The “anti-war” candidate, like those before him, was a pro-war president."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincy_Institute_for_Responsible_Statecraft

"The Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft is an American think tank specializing in U.S. foreign policy. Founded in 2019, the Quincy Institute has been described as advocating realism and restraint in foreign policy. The organization is located in Washington, D.C. and is named after former president John Quincy Adams

History[edit]

The Quincy Institute was co-founded by Andrew Bacevich, a former U.S. Army officer who fought in the Vietnam War and later became a professor of history at Boston University.[2] Bacevich is currently chairman of the board at the Quincy Institute.[3]

Initial funding for the group, launched in November 2019,[4] included half a million dollars each from George Soros' Open Society Foundations and Charles Koch's Koch Foundation."

 

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/04/18/donald-trump-presidency-anti-imperialist-militarism-war/

Calling Trump an Anti-Imperialist Is Nonsense

The anti-war left shouldn’t fall for this dishonest pitch.

 

Trump might not have started any wars, but he massively inflamed existing ones—and came close to catastrophic new ones.

Let’s review the record. Despite inveighing against “endless wars,” Trump massively escalated the country’s existing wars in multiple theaters, leading to skyrocketing casualties. In Afghanistan, he substantially upped the amount of airstrikes, leading to a 330 percent increase in civilian deaths. In Yemen, he escalated both U.S. counterterrorism activities and support for the devastating Saudi-led war against the Houthis. According to the United Kingdom’s Bureau of Investigative Journalism, there were 2,243 drone strikes in just the first two years of Trump’s presidency, compared with 1,878 in the entire eight years of the Obama administration.

Trump also came very close to tweeting the country into a nuclear war with North Korea in late 2017 and early 2018, a completely self-inflicted incident that seems to have been bizarrely memory-holed. Trump “didn’t merely threaten to attack North Korea if it possessed the ability to strike the U.S.,” wrote the Intercept’s Jon Schwarz. “He ordered the Pentagon to develop new plans, over the resistance of then-Secretary of Defense James Mattis, to do so.” 

 

https://www.hoover.org/research/trump-war

On the other hand, Trump also kept war as a regular tool of foreign policy. He continued the interventions of his predecessors in the Middle East. He launched strikes on Syrian military facilities to retaliate for the use of chemical weapons. He threatened to destroy North Korea and sent armed ships through the South China Seas. Liberals and conservatives both took inconsistent attitudes toward whether President Trump could unilaterally launch military hostilities.

 

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/the-trump-administration-embraces-the-saudi-led-war-yemen

The Trump Administration Embraces the Saudi-Led War in Yemen

 

President Trump enthusiastically promised Saudi Arabia wholehearted support for its campaign to roll back Iranian influence in the Arab world during his visit to Riyadh May 20-21, offering a $110 billion arms sale package to prove it. And it will shortly begin re-supplying the Royal Saudi Air Force with $500 million worth of smart bombs and other munition

 

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2017-03-22/president-donald-trump-is-doubling-down-on-wars-in-the-middle-east

Trump is no stranger to conflict escalation. In his short time in office, he has managed to successfully escalate disputes against the media, immigrants and the intelligence community. Yet Trump's most important escalation has been in the War on Terror, substantially increasing the U.S. commitment to wars in Yemen, Syria and elsewhere. Unfortunately, these steps are likely only to draw America deeper into some of the world's most intractable conflicts.

 

etc

etc

etc

[Skipalongcassidy]

34 minutes ago, stevenl said:

That's the problem with untrustworthy/unreliable sources. 

Typical deflection... same old story.

[Dolf]

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

Waiting for dolf to define (his definition) of marxist views. 

Marxists believe in a classless society and working for the common good. But there is no common good apart from survival which is why tribes still have chiefs living in a jungle.

 

 

[Dolf]

4 hours ago, morrobay said:

Trump worst president says the military industrial complex. Bush: Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama: Syria and Libya. Biden: Ukraine  plus Obama https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy

Trump was a mid range President. Bush was bad then Obama was worse now it's Biden as the worst. So American's haven't learnt much about voting for the right guy.

[johnnybangkok]

15 hours ago, Walker88 said:

I understand that you don't understand economics at all, much less trading, Sparky (A guy that boast about making 5000 baht, as you did in the past, is not exactly George Soros or Paul Tudor Jones), but you might want to look up what Obama inherited---plus how he addressed it.

 

He inherited a world where suddenly people realized Synthetic CDO Squareds with CDS yield enhancement kickers were not risk free. He inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. In March of 2009 the entire financial system of the world was a day or two away from exploding, as was the insurance industry.

 

Unlike Europe, which manufacture a tautological solution of ECB money printing and forcing banks to buy sovereign debt to save Spain, Italy and themselves, Obama forced banks to sell off bad debt, issue equity, and reduce leverage to 10%. He saved the Money Market and the Commercial Paper Market. He bailed out AIG (which had assumed most of the world's risk), and that saved the insurance industry. If he hadn't done that, planes would have been grounded, ships docked in port, trucks parked and trains halted, since none would have risked being uninsured.

 

It worked. UE tumbled from a high of 10% to the 4.8% and growing economy he left trump.

 

No way trump could have handled that. trump is a financial idiot. The system would have collapsed. trump, however, got lucky, because he inherited what Obama had saved. Then trump coasted on the coattails of what Obama had set in motion. When his own first crisis arose 81% into his miserable 4 years term---and after the tax cut that decimated the deficit--he messed that up royally (Covid). He ignored the crisis he had been told months earlier was coming, and when it hit, he downplayed and did nothing until forced to do so.

 

The lingering joke is that the"like...really really smart stable genius" told his Goobers to inject Lysol and stick a UV up their butt.

 

trump's disaster left fewer Americans employed than when he entered (first Potus since 1932), a Recession, and an additional $8,400,000,000,000 in debt. Absolute disaster, fitting the loser trump.

 

Don't even try to respond, because you lack the knowledge.

Very well put but I also love how the GOP in general always come up with the 'but the economy' argument in the belief it is better under GOP rule when the numbers just simply don't bear out that argument. I try not to argue facts with Trump/GOP supporters for the same reason I don't bother trying to teach my dog how to drive a car but here goes:

 

Dems Vs Repubs by the numbers. *last 50 yrs  

 

Years held Presidency: -       Repub- 28yrs,                  Dem-22 yrs

Total jobs created:-              Repub-24 Million,              Dem-42 Million

Stock market return:-           Repub-109%,                     Dem-992% 

GDP:-                                     Repub-2.7%,                      Dem-4.1% 

Income growth:-                  Rep-0.6%                            Dem-2.2%

 (source politico, bloomberg, USDL)

 

Forbes magazine - 'It is simply a fact that since World War II, Democratic presidents have seen 24.4 million more jobs created on their watch—an average of 78.6% more jobs created per year of Democratic administrations—than have Republican presidents. Ditto real GDP growth, 44% higher under Democratic presidents. On the flip side, unemployment has been 18% higher under GOP presidents.   https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/07/trump-is-right-about-one-thing-the-economy-does-better-under-the-democrats/?sh=3181f8a06786

 

Oh and another VERY important point:- 9 of the last 10 recessions have been under Republicans.

Edited February 23 by johnnybangkok

[xylophone]

6 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Very well put but I also love how the GOP in general always come up with the 'but the economy' argument in the belief it is better under GOP rule when the numbers just simply don't bear out that argument. I try not to argue facts with Trump/GOP supporters for the same reason I don't bother trying to teach my dog how to drive a car but here goes:

 

Dems Vs Repubs by the numbers. *last 50 yrs  

 

Years held Presidency: -       Repub- 28yrs,                  Dem-22 yrs

Total jobs created:-              Repub-24 Million,              Dem-42 Million

Stock market return:-           Repub-109%,                     Dem-992% 

GDP:-                                     Repub-2.7%,                      Dem-4.1% 

Income growth:-                  Rep-0.6%                            Dem-2.2%

 (source politico, bloomberg, USDL)

 

Forbes magazine - 'It is simply a fact that since World War II, Democratic presidents have seen 24.4 million more jobs created on their watch—an average of 78.6% more jobs created per year of Democratic administrations—than have Republican presidents. Ditto real GDP growth, 44% higher under Democratic presidents. On the flip side, unemployment has been 18% higher under GOP presidents.   https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/07/trump-is-right-about-one-thing-the-economy-does-better-under-the-democrats/?sh=3181f8a06786

 

Oh and another VERY important point:- 9 of the last 10 recessions have been under Republicans.

Great post, thanks for the information, however it matters not how many/the magnitude of facts that are presented to GOP/MAGAs, they are programmed not to inwardly digest them, so to speak.

 

Any FACT which contradicts their cult edict is immediately dismissed and diversionary tactics are employed, and this can be seen on this forum, time and time again. The most amazing thing is that they will repeat their lies, even when the truth and facts are presented and are staring them in the face.

 

And I thought your point, "I try not to argue facts with Trump/GOP supporters for the same reason I don't bother trying to teach my dog how to drive a car but here goes" was brilliant. Well done.
 

[ozimoron]

6 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

If I post a source... which is available to anybody who is smart enough to use google... will you read it or do the usual liberal left turn and just deride the source?  That's the problem with the forum rule on sources... it becomes about your OPINION ABOUT the source...

"So you have an opinion and stick to it, no matter what"... right?

 

If you can't find acceptable sources under the rules you don't have a credible argument.

[johnnybangkok]

14 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Great post, thanks for the information, however it matters not how many/the magnitude of facts that are presented to GOP/MAGAs, they are programmed not to inwardly digest them, so to speak.

 

Any FACT which contradicts their cult edict is immediately dismissed and diversionary tactics are employed, and this can be seen on this forum, time and time again. The most amazing thing is that they will repeat their lies, even when the truth and facts are presented and are staring them in the face.

 

And I thought your point, "I try not to argue facts with Trump/GOP supporters for the same reason I don't bother trying to teach my dog how to drive a car but here goes" was brilliant. Well done.
 

My other favourite is:-

 

“Arguing with Trumpers is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to $hit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.”

[Photoguy21]

On 2/20/2024 at 2:16 PM, Berkshire said:

Yeah, the fact that a good number of Americans would still vote for this buffoon even though he finished DEAD LAST of all Presidents in US history.

As they say "Stupid does as stupid is".

[Photoguy21]

On 2/20/2024 at 1:58 PM, wensiensheng said:

Why down the toilet? Do you have some metrics that support that comment?

 

leaving aside the carnage caused by rampant gun ownership, the obvious racism evident in some states, the damage to democracy caused by the electoral college system of voting; a number of the usual metrics utilized to rank a country actually make the United States seem to be doing rather well.  Perhaps that’s why the stock market is at record levels (if stock investing is a barometer of economic metrics)

I assume you can read. Look at the numbers it is self explanatory. But if, as you appear, to be a Biden person then good for you. Dont complain when everything turns out bad for you. You want him you have him.

[morrobay]

1 hour ago, Dolf said:

Trump was a mid range President. Bush was bad then Obama was worse now it's Biden as the worst. So American's haven't learnt much about voting for the right guy.

My post was in the context of what presidents started wars / aiding and  abetting. So Bush was the worst. Obama got the US into the Syria mess as well as in Lybia. And then the Obama ,/ Clinton no response during the siege on Benghazi. And now Biden with the open border disaster and Billions going down the Ukdraine rabbit hole. So even if Trump was mid range sure beats the damage from these other Saps. But they sure do know how to  vote for the wrong guy - twice 

[candide]

8 hours ago, morrobay said:

Trump worst president says the military industrial complex. Bush: Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama: Syria and Libya. Biden: Ukraine  plus Obama https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy

Your source has no relation to your claim.

Edited February 23 by candide

[Dolf]

4 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Very well put but I also love how the GOP in general always come up with the 'but the economy' argument in the belief it is better under GOP rule when the numbers just simply don't bear out that argument. I try not to argue facts with Trump/GOP supporters for the same reason I don't bother trying to teach my dog how to drive a car but here goes:

 

Dems Vs Repubs by the numbers. *last 50 yrs  

 

Years held Presidency: -       Repub- 28yrs,                  Dem-22 yrs

Total jobs created:-              Repub-24 Million,              Dem-42 Million

Stock market return:-           Repub-109%,                     Dem-992% 

GDP:-                                     Repub-2.7%,                      Dem-4.1% 

Income growth:-                  Rep-0.6%                            Dem-2.2%

 (source politico, bloomberg, USDL)

 

Forbes magazine - 'It is simply a fact that since World War II, Democratic presidents have seen 24.4 million more jobs created on their watch—an average of 78.6% more jobs created per year of Democratic administrations—than have Republican presidents. Ditto real GDP growth, 44% higher under Democratic presidents. On the flip side, unemployment has been 18% higher under GOP presidents.   https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/07/trump-is-right-about-one-thing-the-economy-does-better-under-the-democrats/?sh=3181f8a06786

 

Oh and another VERY important point:- 9 of the last 10 recessions have been under Republicans.

Easily discredited:

 

The stock answer is that presidents get too much credit when the economy does well and too much blame when it slumps. The boom-and-bust cycles that are inherent in capitalist economies depend on forces that are independent of any president’s actions. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much-impact-can-a-president-have-on-the-economy/

 

[Dolf]

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

My other favourite is:-

 

“Arguing with Trumpers is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to $hit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.”

You should learn the basics before insulting people. 

 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much-impact-can-a-president-have-on-the-economy/

 

[Dolf]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

Great post, thanks for the information, however it matters not how many/the magnitude of facts that are presented to GOP/MAGAs, they are programmed not to inwardly digest them, so to speak.

 

Any FACT which contradicts their cult edict is immediately dismissed and diversionary tactics are employed, and this can be seen on this forum, time and time again. The most amazing thing is that they will repeat their lies, even when the truth and facts are presented and are staring them in the face.

 

And I thought your point, "I try not to argue facts with Trump/GOP supporters for the same reason I don't bother trying to teach my dog how to drive a car but here goes" was brilliant. Well done.
 

The only cult I see are irrational people making anti Trump rants. The economic cycles dictate a lot of the outcomes however a President can have a major say in wars or border controls. Biden failed. Time to go.

 

I wouldn't ever expect a rational response from a Trump hater though.

[heybruce]

22 minutes ago, Dolf said:

Easily discredited:

 

The stock answer is that presidents get too much credit when the economy does well and too much blame when it slumps. The boom-and-bust cycles that are inherent in capitalist economies depend on forces that are independent of any president’s actions. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much-impact-can-a-president-have-on-the-economy/

 

 

21 minutes ago, Dolf said:

You should learn the basics before insulting people. 

 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much-impact-can-a-president-have-on-the-economy/

 

Are you now conceding that Trump didn't do much for the economy?

[Dolf]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

 

Are you now conceding that Trump didn't do much for the economy?

Trump didn't start wars, controlled the borders. Did a good job.

 

The others failed to do their job. 

 

 

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, Dolf said:

The only cult I see are irrational people making anti Trump rants. The economic cycles dictate a lot of the outcomes however a President can have a major say in wars or border controls. Biden failed. Time to go.

 

I wouldn't ever expect a rational response from a Trump hater though.

Irrational people making anti-Trump rants? 

 

Condemning Trump for his actions leading to Jan 6 and, equally bad, his failure to do anything to restrain the mob for hours while he watched its rampage on television is not irrational.  It's patriotic.

 

That is probably the number one reason for Trump's worst ever ranking.

[Dolf]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Irrational people making anti-Trump rants? 

 

Condemning Trump for his actions leading to Jan 6 and, equally bad, his failure to do anything to restrain the mob for hours while he watched its rampage on television is not irrational.  It's patriotic.

 

That is probably the number one reason for Trump's worst ever ranking.

Whatever you say. Waste of time talking to the left.