Is plastic recycling a hoax made up by Big Oil?

[KhunLA]

20 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

And if they are paying, then you (or anyone else)  REALLY think they are then putting it in landfill? 

 

If there is no market, why do we see (in Pattaya) several locals going around diligently sifting through bins to collect plastic and cardboard?

 

And many falang appear to think they have intellectual cspacity way above that of the locals!

 

PH

Yes, or worse, dumped in seas.  If it's not recycled properly, then where do you think it is going ?

source

 

"Thailand is the sixth-largest contributor of plastic waste in the ocean. Every year, an estimated 87 per cent of recyclable plastic in Thailand is improperly recycled or disposed of, leading to an estimated 322,000 tonnes of plastic in the ocean. "

Edited February 22 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

25 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

And many falang appear to think they have intellectual cspacity way above that of the locals!

Or ... other farangs who actually know what they are talking about and provide source of info, to back it up 

[Phulublub]

20 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yes, or worse, dumped in seas.  If it's not recycled properly, then where do you think it is going ?

source

 

"Thailand is the sixth-largest contributor of plastic waste in the ocean. Every year, an estimated 87 per cent of recyclable plastic in Thailand is improperly recycled or disposed of, leading to an estimated 322,000 tonnes of plastic in the ocean. "

Which means that the 20% is actually recycled, which is rather more than the zero percent from those who put it directly in the trash or burn it.

 

PH

[stoner]

2 hours ago, JimTripper said:

I like those glass soda bottles in Thailand that have been reused. Not recycled, but washed and reused.

 

I can see the scrapes on the sides like seaglass. I think about all the prior customers who drank out of that bottle and how far it has traveled to get to me. 

 

coke bottles too i think ya ? remember when we were smart and used glass for most liquids. 

[patman30]

3 hours ago, stoner said:

having less of a carbon footprint

This is the problem right here, thinking it is about what we are told it is about
for my comments i am specifically referring to burning of plastics and the toxicity to those around you
i do not care about "carbon footprint" as i understand how backwards this mentality is
CO2 = life
i do not live completely off grid and nearly self sufficient for any such reasons.

don't be fooled by the nonsense that is put out in order to impose more tax and regulations
and as far as EV drivers go.... there are reasons to buy an EV
saving the environment is not one of them,
and thinking you have the moral high ground because you drive one is just asinine 

[stoner]

9 minutes ago, patman30 said:

This is the problem right here, thinking it is about what we are told it is about
for my comments i am specifically referring to burning of plastics and the toxicity to those around you
i do not care about "carbon footprint" as i understand how backwards this mentality is
CO2 = life
i do not live completely off grid and nearly self sufficient for any such reasons.

don't be fooled by the nonsense that is put out in order to impose more tax and regulations
and as far as EV drivers go.... there are reasons to buy an EV
saving the environment is not one of them,
and thinking you have the moral high ground because you drive one is just asinine 

 

the amount of garbage and pollution you cause compared to him is far greater is what i was getting at.

 

even him burning some garbage is offset (and more) by some of his other habits in life. compared to yours. if i am assuming right. you don't utilize the things he does. if you do my bad.

 

so you driving a gas car for a couple years or using grid electricity (that is mostly created from burning - which releases toxic fumes) probably puts out more pollution and causes more damage to you and the planet than his entire lifetime of burning personal garbage. 

 

 

 

[patman30]

21 minutes ago, stoner said:

 

the amount of garbage and pollution you cause compared to him is far greater is what i was getting at.

 

even him burning some garbage is offset (and more) by some of his other habits in life. compared to yours. if i am assuming right. you don't utilize the things he does. if you do my bad.

 

so you driving a gas car for a couple years or using grid electricity (that is mostly created from burning - which releases toxic fumes) probably puts out more pollution and causes more damage to you and the planet than his entire lifetime of burning personal garbage. 

put the reefer down and actually read what has been typed

firstly you know nothing of me, so it is foolish to assume anything
then you go on to tell me i use grid power, after i have already stated i am COMPLETEY OFF GRID

if you want a conversation please do find the answers to these questions for yourself.
what percent of the atmosphere is Co2?
what percent of that is man made?
At what level of Co2 does all life on earth die?
What happens to the oxygen levels in the atmosphere when Co2 levels increase?
how many KW is the average to charge an EV?
what is the average household use in KW?

if you know these then we can have a conversation

now as to myself to address your dumb af comments
my cars is used extremely little, it would make zero sense either side of the argument for myself to purchase a new car regardless of fuel
we have extremely small amount of garbage, literally one bag a month, which is mainly nappies that are mostly agar agar
(we use nappies night time only, daytime we use terrycloth)
we do not burn any garbage or plastics which are toxic
again i am not referring to general air pollution
but the releasing of toxic chemicals to those around you in near proximity
not to mention it is actually illegal to burn garbage

 

now this does not matter to myself, but.............

 

 

Now, i have shown you mine, you show me yours.

Edited February 22 by patman30

[stoner]

3 minutes ago, patman30 said:

put the reefer down and actually read what has been typed

firstly you know nothing of me, so it is foolish to assume anything
then you go on to tell me i use grid power, after i have already stated i am COMPLETEY OFF GRID

if you want a conversation please do find the answers to these questions for yourself.
what percent of the atmosphere is Co2?
what percent of that is man made?
At what level of Co2 does all life on earth die?
What happens to the oxygen levels in the atmosphere when Co2 levels increase?
how many KW is the average to charge an EV?
what is the average household use in KW?

if you know these then we can have a conversation

now as to myself to address your dumb af comments
my cars is used extremely little, it would make zero sense either side of the argument for myself to purchase a new car regardless of fuel
we have extremely small amount of garbage, literally one bag a month, which is mainly nappies that are mostly agar agar
(we use nappies night time only, daytime we use terrycloth)
we do not burn any garbage or plastics which are toxic
again i am not referring to general air pollution
but the releasing of toxic chemicals to those around you in near proximity
not to mention it is actually illegal to burn garbage

 

now this does not matter to myself, but.............

 

 

Now, i have shown you mine, you show me yours.

 

ok. 

 

how about this. i am canadian. on average some of the worst on the planet. 

[patman30]

47 minutes ago, stoner said:

coke bottles too i think ya ? remember when we were smart and used glass for most liquids. 

now this is a much more sensible comment
i agree we should be going back to reusable glass

[patman30]

1 minute ago, stoner said:

ok. 

how about this. i am canadian. on average some of the worst on the planet. 

like i said, put the reefer down
so i can understand what you are getting at?

some of the worst what? people?
i may agree lol, but i only got you, Ricky, Julian and Bubbles to go by....lol

[stoner]

Just now, patman30 said:

like i said, put the reefer down
so i can understand what you are getting at?

some of the worst what? people?
i may agree lol, but i only got you, Ricky, Julian and Bubbles to go by....lol

 

 

per capita canadians are among the biggest polluters on the planet. put the reefer down no way. reefer is magical. you can turn carbon into money. really cool.  

[stoner]

9 minutes ago, stoner said:

already stated i am COMPLETEY OFF GRID

 i missed this so my mistake. 

[patman30]

3 minutes ago, stoner said:

per capita canadians are among the biggest polluters on the planet. put the reefer down no way. reefer is magical. you can turn carbon into money. really cool.  

but but but.... your carbon footprint
you do know it is very common to use carbon generators at deadly levels to grow high grade?

Sorry to break it to you
Canada is so screwed, i honestly hope you are here and not there.
you at least get a thumbs up if you got out already.

BTW, what strain you puffin today?

[patman30]

2 minutes ago, stoner said:

 i missed this so my mistake. 

Just to be clear,
my decision to be off grid has absolutely nothing to do with environment or carbon footprint blah blah😉

[ozimoron]

Commercially recycling thin plastic bags is currently not feasible at a large scale to generate a profit for the recycler. While technically possible, there are several economic and practical challenges that make it difficult:

Challenges:

• Low value: Recycled thin plastic bags have a lower market value compared to other recycled materials like aluminum or PET bottles. This makes it difficult to cover the costs of collection, sorting, and processing.
• Contamination: Thin plastic bags are easily contaminated with food residue, grease, and other materials, which can significantly reduce their quality and value for recycling.
• Sorting difficulties: The flimsy nature of thin bags makes them difficult to automatically sort from other recyclables, often requiring manual separation, which increases labor costs.
• Processing costs: Specialized equipment is needed to process thin plastic bags into usable material, adding to the overall cost.

source: AI generated

[stoner]

1 minute ago, patman30 said:

you do know it is very common to use carbon generators at deadly levels to grow high grade?

 

my guy has been using levels i didn't think were possible :) i left canada many years ago. living in phuket now. last one can't tell you. 

[Korat Kiwi]

I've recently returned from NZ, and my there were some changes while I was away. 

 

Supermarket stores no longer provide single use plastic bags at checkouts. (Carry type bags) 

 

The Government also banned those plastic stickers you find on fruit advertising country/type/grade. 

 

It was good to see an increase in usage of paper bags. 

 

Now I'm back here, I'm blown away by the amount of plastic used.  Early morning local fresh market must go thru tons of the stuff daily. 

 

Pickup trucks, bikes, scooters all heaving with single serve plastic bags of food.  Where does all the plastic end up???  Landfill probably. 

 

Look on the side of the road, more plastic.  It's everywhere. 

 

Now I'm not a greenie by any standard, but the amount of wastage here is mind blowing. 

[john donson]

this is thailand, either land fill or burning... or both, as sometimes the land fill is full but that magical fires appear 

[KhunLA]

Nothing that we do or don't do, is to save the environment or the planet, as it doesn't need saving.  We have solar & EVs, simply to save money, and they perform better.   Solar provides enough energy for all EVs & house (24/7).  Only time we use the grid, is when we're away from home, and most of energy in TH is generated by natural gas, especially where we live & go, mostly south of us.

 

Our closest, new neighbor is about 150 meter away.  Prior to 6 months ago, closest would be 2-300m away.  We're almost 3 sided by pineapple fields & coconut groves.  Quite lovely, and vids posted before.

 

I doubt if we burn a kg of trash per week, as we simply don't generate much.  Most food is from scratch, so what ever the raw ingredients come in, usually a plastic bag is about all the trash we have.  Since most everything else goes in the compost piles, or to recycle vendors, about the only thing left is single use plastic bags, which don't weigh much.  So 1 kg a week is a stretch.  No way am I giving them to the municipality to dispose of.  Even if I only save 1 turtle.  Besides, there's no trash collection on our dead end soi anyway.   

 

I'm not going to buy a plastic bag to save trash (plastic bags) to take to some roadside trash can.  Which they may or may not be disposed of properly, though is there really any proper way to dispose of it.

 

Burning ... no

Dumping, land or sea ... no

Even trash to energy isn't good, I wouldn't think.   Better, but not perfect.   Best not to use single use plastic to begin with, but I have no control over that.

 

It is what it is, the planet will survive no matter how much humans trash it up.  Human will survive, no matter how much trash is burnt or spread about.

 

Burning ours, is simply convenient for us, and safer for them turtles ...   

 

If folks think CO2 is a problem, then you might want to research how much of the atmosphere is made up of CO2, (about 0.04 percent) and how much of that is contributed by humans (and humans have contributed only 3% +/-).   It's good for chuckle   

 

Plenty of TT or YT shorts if you need a visual instead of actually reading.

 

And before anyone spouts any more BS ....

"Carbon monoxide is present in Earth's atmosphere at very low concentrations. A typical concentration of CO in Earth's troposphere is around 100 ppb (parts per billion; meaning one hundred out of every billion air molecules is carbon monoxide), although especially clean air can have concentrations as low as 50 ppb."

 

Edited February 22 by KhunLA

[khunPer]

On 2/20/2024 at 10:12 PM, KhunLA said:

Don't really have any thoughts on it myself.   As long as the recycle center will pay for our trash, the wife with keep selling it to them.

Yes, as long as somebody pays for it, it most likely reused, very few will pay for worthless stuff...

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Yes, as long as somebody pays for it, it most likely reused, very few will pay for worthless stuff...

Likely UN-reused.   Less than 25% of collected plastic is actually recycled 

[Skeptic7]

Nope...

 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

Nope...

 

Just think how much more stuff they could make, if they actually kept their plastic waste:

 

[ozimoron]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Nothing that we do or don't do, is to save the environment or the planet, as it doesn't need saving.  We have solar & EVs, simply to save money, and they perform better.   Solar provides enough energy for all EVs & house (24/7).  Only time we use the grid, is when we're away from home, and most of energy in TH is generated by natural gas, especially where we live & go, mostly south of us.

 

Our closest, new neighbor is about 150 meter away.  Prior to 6 months ago, closest would be 2-300m away.  We're almost 3 sided by pineapple fields & coconut groves.  Quite lovely, and vids posted before.

 

I doubt if we burn a kg of trash per week, as we simply don't generate much.  Most food is from scratch, so what ever the raw ingredients come in, usually a plastic bag is about all the trash we have.  Since most everything else goes in the compost piles, or to recycle vendors, about the only thing left is single use plastic bags, which don't weigh much.  So 1 kg a week is a stretch.  No way am I giving them to the municipality to dispose of.  Even if I only save 1 turtle.  Besides, there's no trash collection on our dead end soi anyway.   

 

I'm not going to buy a plastic bag to save trash (plastic bags) to take to some roadside trash can.  Which they may or may not be disposed of properly, though is there really any proper way to dispose of it.

 

Burning ... no

Dumping, land or sea ... no

Even trash to energy isn't good, I wouldn't think.   Better, but not perfect.   Best not to use single use plastic to begin with, but I have no control over that.

 

It is what it is, the planet will survive no matter how much humans trash it up.  Human will survive, no matter how much trash is burnt or spread about.

 

Burning ours, is simply convenient for us, and safer for them turtles ...   

 

If folks think CO2 is a problem, then you might want to research how much of the atmosphere is made up of CO2, (about 0.04 percent) and how much of that is contributed by humans (and humans have contributed only 3% +/-).   It's good for chuckle   

 

Plenty of TT or YT shorts if you need a visual instead of actually reading.

 

And before anyone spouts any more BS ....

"Carbon monoxide is present in Earth's atmosphere at very low concentrations. A typical concentration of CO in Earth's troposphere is around 100 ppb (parts per billion; meaning one hundred out of every billion air molecules is carbon monoxide), although especially clean air can have concentrations as low as 50 ppb.

 

To the uneducated that might seem like not much CO2. The reality is that it's rising fast and has never been higher in several million years.

 

 

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth's_atmosphere

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Sadly the tech is there, it's just not implemented enough now.   Apparently it's cheaper to burn or dump trash on land or at sea.

 

The tech is there compared to what? You don't know what future tech is on the horizon.

 

Exactly, it's cheaper to burn or dump. The current tech is too costly. 

But at some point in the future, if it becomes feasible economically, they will likely stop doing that. 

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, save the frogs said:

The tech is there compared to what? You don't know what future tech is on the horizon.

 

Exactly, it's cheaper to burn or dump. The current tech is too costly. 

But at some point in the future, if it becomes feasible economically, they will likely stop doing that. 

What ?   No need to wait for the future.  Use what's available now, and improvements when they are available in the future.  Everyone seems to be waiting, and why things are as screwed up as they are.

 

There are trash to energy plants in many countries across the planet.   That there's not enough, simply shows, people simple don't care.  It's not a good look on humanity, or the planet.  

 

But they are happy to complain, just not help or do anything.  Plenty of solutions to most problems.  People just don't care, maybe just a wee bit too inconvenient for them, or don't want to pay a few more baht for a cleaner planet.   Yea, that hypocrisy thing again.  

 

You can't complain about the noise or air pollution in the metro areas if your still driving petrol, especially diesel fueled vehicles.  Imagine standing on the corner of Sukhomvit rd & suk sor 4, and all vehicles are EVs.  Just the noise of rolling tires & no exhaust to smell ... BLISS  You could probably even walk a km or 2, with smelling and feeling dirty, wanting to take a shower as soon as you get home.

 

People complain about all the trash, but continue to buy processed and packaged foods, instead of home cooking from scratch.   Trust me, it taste better and even saves you money.   Yes, it takes some effort.  And your scraps. what little there is, along with tissue, paper towels, (biodegradables) all go into your compost pile, to feed your garden, instead of the landfill or seas.  And you get to eat better, healthier food, no pesticides.  

 

Generate less trash that you complain about.  Recycle some things, and hope the gov't does the right thing, though sadly not, most times, but you tried.

 

All that seems to be too inconvenient for most and would solve many issues ... but they enjoy complaining about it all.  I lost respect for most people,   Why I'm a bit anti social.

 

Do it because you care what goes into your body, or care to simple eat better, or just save money.  No need to try to save the planet, as less contribution to the trash simple will come naturally.   No real thought or effort involved.   Take away your packaged foods, (boxes & cans) and your trash bins will take a week or 2 to fill up.  Not overflowing and need to be picked up once or twice a week.

 

As long as it's picked up and taken away, now someone else's problem, or even better, ship it to another country as long as it's out of your sight, but is it really 

 

People seem happy to live in and swim in trash, and only complain about it.  No respect for themselves or their environment.  Oh well, som nam na. 

 

Much is being sad ... but nothing nothin nothing is being done ...

 

 

 

Edited February 22 by KhunLA

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

People complain about all the trash, but continue to buy processed and packaged foods, instead of home cooking from scratch.

well, you buy olives and it comes in a jar.

yogurt comes in containers.

i wish i could use less packaging, but its not possible to completely avoid.

 

but good post!

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Why I'm a bit anti social.

Regarding being anti-social, the word gets a bad rap.

In my opinion maybe most people are too social and just wasting their time.

I read your posts and I responded to them. So am I being anti-social?

The internet is just another form of communication.

But why would I need to spend endless hours with you sitting in a bar yapping?

There's a law of diminishing returns when you hang out too much with people. 

 

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, save the frogs said:

well, you buy olives and it comes in a jar.

yogurt comes in containers.

i wish i could use less packaging, but its not possible to completely avoid.

 

but good post!

👍

4 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Regarding being anti-social, the word gets a bad rap.

In my opinion maybe most people are too social and just wasting their time.

I read your posts and I responded to them. So am I being anti-social?

The internet is just another form of communication.

But why would I need to spend endless hours with you sitting in a bar yapping?

There's a law of diminishing returns when you hang out too much with people. 

 

👍

[Skipalongcassidy]

22 hours ago, stoner said:

 

its cute watching you guys bash @KhunLA

 

ok so seems he is not perfect. HOWEVER as i read it he is doing many other things in his life to offset and contribute.

 

Please now go ahead and list what you are all doing compared to him. if at that point you are living more sustainable and having less of a carbon footprint....then preach to the choir. otherwise might be advisable to zip up as it seems he is doing MUCH MUCH more than the average person. 

I have solar AND I do NOT burn... I recycle by giving all of it to the lady that works in the neighborhood so she can make a decent living... 

My point was that if everyone adopts the position that their "little burn" is ok because they have "offsets" then you continue to have thousands contributing to the smoke problem... Going "green" is all or nothing... it cannot be about "offsets" as it does nothing to solve the smoke problem... how can Thailand ever become smoke free with that kind of attitude?