Imagine this ! I would buy one

[kwak250]

[KhunLA]

You forgot to add, in Thailand, it would cost 4X as much to operate, if you didn't have solar.  And no, they are about the same price now, not half price, unless buying a way underspec'd 3cyl Celerio.

 

Only faster to refuel if on the road, as takes longer to top up than EVs pugging in at home vs Q'ing up every week at petrol station.

 

Range gap is getting much shorter, even the same if spending extra money.

 

Just another silly (false) what if  and a very poor one at that.

[Lacessit]

23 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You forgot to add, in Thailand, it would cost 4X as much to operate, if you didn't have solar.  And no, they are about the same price now, not half price, unless buying a way underspec'd 3cyl Celerio.

 

Only faster to refuel if on the road, as takes longer to top up than EVs pugging in at home vs Q'ing up every week at petrol station.

 

Range gap is getting much shorter, even the same if spending extra money.

 

Just another silly (false) what if  and a very poor one at that.

One point I would disagree with in your post - it is very rare for me to be in any type of queue at a petrol station. I am usually pulling into a vacant bowser.

You have a good argument; however, you could not resist over-egging the pudding.

[JBChiangRai]

 

 

That exact post was on facebook, here was the reply...

 

This new invention the ICE has poor torque at low revs, so we will fit gears to compensate, it is noisy and vibrates tiring its occupants, so we will fit mufflers and sound proofing,  We will no longer get up in the morning to a vehicle fully fueled and ready to go so we will have to visit smelly petrol stations every week, queue up and fill with highly explosive hydrocarbons  that the ICE will explode in something with 100 times more moving parts than our EV's producing poisonous gases in the process.  Our new ICE will be unreliable because of all the moving parts and more than 10 times likely to catch fire.

 

Yes, how excited people will be. 

[it is what it is]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

That exact post was on facebook, here was the reply...

 

This new invention the ICE has poor torque at low revs, so we will fit gears to compensate, it is noisy and vibrates tiring its occupants, so we will fit mufflers and sound proofing,  We will no longer get up in the morning to a vehicle fully fueled and ready to go so we will have to visit smelly petrol stations every week, queue up and fill with highly explosive hydrocarbons  that the ICE will explode in something with 100 times more moving parts than our EV's producing poisonous gases in the process.  Our new ICE will be unreliable because of all the moving parts and more than 10 times likely to catch fire.

 

Yes, how excited people will be. 

 

 

ICE still sounds like the prefered option to me.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

One point I would disagree with in your post - it is very rare for me to be in any type of queue at a petrol station. I am usually pulling into a vacant bowser.

You have a good argument; however, you could not resist over-egging the pudding.

I guess the need to Q is location and grade of petrol to use.  When using 91, occasionally had to Q, but usually not.   Using E85, never Q'd, I don't think, actually harder to find, than a CS station now, as only the newest, larger PTTs offered E85.

 

No matter what grade, it still took 5-10 minutes to get topped up & pay, unlike the less than 1 minute, to top up at home.  So, 5-10X to top up vs the 1/10 in the OP, when local, which people are during most of the year.

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, it is what it is said:

 

 

ICE still sounds like the prefered option to me.

It really depends on a case by case basis. The only real advantage of having an ICEV is the ability to travel a much longer distance without having to stop and that stops are a lot shorter. However this comes at a price, literally. You will have to pay more for this convenience. Those of us that owns or have owned both sorts of vehicles know this for a fact. Those that have never owned an EV has absolutely no idea of the convenience and advantages of an EV over an ICEV.

[Gweiloman]

7 hours ago, kwak250 said:

Oh wow! I didn’t know that ICEVs could travel up to 2,000 km on a single tank of fuel. Or that fuel is a renewable source of energy. 
 

Where can I buy such a vehicle?

[Lacessit]

33 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I guess the need to Q is location and grade of petrol to use.  When using 91, occasionally had to Q, but usually not.   Using E85, never Q'd, I don't think, actually harder to find, than a CS station now, as only the newest, larger PTTs offered E85.

 

No matter what grade, it still took 5-10 minutes to get topped up & pay, unlike the less than 1 minute, to top up at home.  So, 5-10X to top up vs the 1/10 in the OP, when local, which people are during most of the year.

How many people have the setup you describe? Permit me to doubt recharging times at the commercial electron dispensers are within a bull's roar of the time it takes to fill up with petrol.

 

A sample of one is statistically meaningless in terms of drawing any conclusions.

[macahoom]

7 hours ago, kwak250 said:

 

Here's another imagine scenario:

 

Imagine, if you will, that for the past 100 years, all vehicles have been electric - petrol and diesel engines have never existed.  

 

Then, suddenly, car manufacturers and governments propose and promote a new way to power cars:

They want us all to ditch the battery and electric motor and replace with a new-fangled internal combustion engine (ICE) - cast iron block with transmission, drive shaft, valves, cams, a differential, a crankshaft, pistons, an oil pump, an exhaust system, air filters, fuel injection, radiator, thermostat, fan, water pump, catalytic converters, pollution control devices etc.

 

And every few hundred miles a petrol station visit will be necessary to pump 25 gallons of very expensive petrol or diesel into a tank under your back seat.

 

And then you’ll have to pay huge servicing and repair bills because of all the moving parts - over 2000 in an ICEV compared to about 20 in an EV. Oh, and you’ll have to pay for new brake pads unlike EVs which rarely, if ever, need to be replaced because of the regenerative braking.

 

Last, but not least: these new-fangled petrol/diesel ICE cars will make lots of noise and vibrate and pollute. And they will have sluggish acceleration compared to EVs.

 

How do you think people would react to these new proposed ICEVs?

Edited February 28 by macahoom

[steve187]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

I guess the need to Q is location and grade of petrol to use.  When using 91, occasionally had to Q, but usually not.   Using E85, never Q'd, I don't think, actually harder to find, than a CS station now, as only the newest, larger PTTs offered E85.

 

No matter what grade, it still took 5-10 minutes to get topped up & pay, unlike the less than 1 minute, to top up at home.  So, 5-10X to top up vs the 1/10 in the OP, when local, which people are during most of the year.

what type of car ev or ice would take longer to 'fill up' after a 400km journey away from home.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, steve187 said:

what type of car ev or ice would take longer to 'fill up' after a 400km journey away from home.

Neither would take longer than it took you to have a cup of coffee and a toilet break.

[Gweiloman]

45 minutes ago, macahoom said:

 

Here's another imagine scenario:

 

Imagine, if you will, that for the past 100 years, all vehicles have been electric - petrol and diesel engines have never existed.  

 

Then, suddenly, car manufacturers and governments propose and promote a new way to power cars:

They want us all to ditch the battery and electric motor and replace with a new-fangled internal combustion engine (ICE) - cast iron block with transmission, drive shaft, valves, cams, a differential, a crankshaft, pistons, an oil pump, an exhaust system, air filters, fuel injection, radiator, thermostat, fan, water pump, catalytic converters, pollution control devices etc.

 

And every few hundred miles a petrol station visit will be necessary to pump 25 gallons of very expensive petrol or diesel into a tank under your back seat.

 

And then you’ll have to pay huge servicing and repair bills because of all the moving parts - over 2000 in an ICEV compared to about 20 in an EV. Oh, and you’ll have to pay for new brake pads unlike EVs which rarely, if ever, need to be replaced because of the regenerative braking.

 

Last, but not least: these new-fangled petrol/diesel ICE cars will make lots of noise and vibrate and pollute. And they will have sluggish acceleration compared to EVs.

 

How do you think people would react to these new proposed ICEVs?

Imagine also. In order for this new invention to work, the fuel (excluding all the work that goes into extraction and refining) would need to be pumped into huge ocean going tankers to be shipped all around the world. Any accident on the high seas could cause oil spills and ecological disasters. Then, it would need to be loaded onto road going tankers and delivered to the thousands of petrol stations around the country. Talk about wear and tear on the poor roads (a 2 ton electric SUV does not come close in weight to these oil tankers. Imagine if one of these have an accident and explodes). All these vehicular traffic just adds to extra congestion on the roads as well as noise and air pollution.

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, steve187 said:

what type of car ev or ice would take longer to 'fill up' after a 400km journey away from home.

Acknowledged already below .... but how often are you more than 125-150 kms away from home ?

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

You forgot to add, in Thailand, it would cost 4X as much to operate, if you didn't have solar.  And no, they are about the same price now, not half price, unless buying a way underspec'd 3cyl Celerio.

 

Only faster to refuel if on the road, as takes longer to top up than EVs pugging in at home vs Q'ing up every week at petrol station.

 

Range gap is getting much shorter, even the same if spending extra money.

 

Just another silly (false) what if  and a very poor one at that.

 

[Henryford]

And it wouldn't kill thousands of young children mining cobalt by hand in Africa.

[steve187]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Acknowledged already below .... but how often are you more than 125-150 kms away from home ?

 

my views are that EV's have not evolved enough to 100% replace ice vehicles, that's why some countries are seeing a big turndown in ev orders/sales

[steve187]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Neither would take longer than it took you to have a cup of coffee and a toilet break.

so 16 minutes, that would charge an ev for another 400km

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, steve187 said:

so 16 minutes, that would charge an ev for another 400km

 

They vary between 6 and 30 minutes

[VocalNeal]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

a way underspec'd 3cyl Celerio.

 

Spec is just fine for what it is? A basic car. Not everyone needs a separate laptop/notebook attached to their car. 

 

How does a Celerio compare to an air-cooled VW beetle?

[JBChiangRai]

35 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

Spec is just fine for what it is? A basic car. Not everyone needs a separate laptop/notebook attached to their car. 

 

How does a Celerio compare to an air-cooled VW beetle?

 

Favourably

[mfd101]

Currently, it depends on lifestyle choices and where you live. Here in the rural NE you'ld be very brave to make the change at the moment. But change will come, and then perhaps another.

 

At my local PTT in Prasat there's a 2-car recharging installation right beside where we often eat brunch. It's been there about 3 months not operational. Became operational (as far as I can judge - covers removed) a week ago. Will be fascinated to see my first (ie someone else's) EV pull up for a dose ...

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

 

Spec is just fine for what it is? A basic car. Not everyone needs a separate laptop/notebook attached to their car. 

 

How does a Celerio compare to an air-cooled VW beetle?

Reply in reference to the OP stating ICEV cost half what an EV cost, in which only the very basic ICEV is priced below 499k baht.  Guess they're fine if that's all somebody wants or can afford.  Just wife, dog & myself need a lot more room & power.  I doubt if the Celerio could have gone up a couple hills we've gone up, or carry what we need when out and about.

 

Besides I can't even get in the dame thing, comfortably.  And can't imagine driving on the highway in one for over an hour.  I thought the Vios & Mazda 2 were POS on the road, but fine locally.

 

The comparisons people are making are just silly, and this one in OP, besides silly is simply false.

 

Celerio vs VW ... haven't a clue, but I'd never own a VW, any VW.  Can't believe a damn thing they say.

[LukKrueng]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I guess the need to Q is location and grade of petrol to use.  When using 91, occasionally had to Q, but usually not.   Using E85, never Q'd, I don't think, actually harder to find, than a CS station now, as only the newest, larger PTTs offered E85.

 

No matter what grade, it still took 5-10 minutes to get topped up & pay, unlike the less than 1 minute, to top up at home.  So, 5-10X to top up vs the 1/10 in the OP, when local, which people are during most of the year.

Comparing the time to plug in with time to refuel? Let's try this: 2 cars, one ev and the other ice, both have a 350 km range. Driving from Bangkok to Chiang mai, both starting with full tank\battery.

At the 350 km mark both have to refuel\recharge. Now go compare the time needed.

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, LukKrueng said:

Comparing the time to plug in with time to refuel? Let's try this: 2 cars, one ev and the other ice, both have a 350 km range. Driving from Bangkok to Chiang mai, both starting with full tank\battery.

At the 350 km mark both have to refuel\recharge. Now go compare the time needed.

 

Reading comprehension seems to be an issue with a few members....

 

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Only faster to refuel if on the road, as takes longer to top up than EVs pugging in at home vs Q'ing up every week at petrol station.

 

[VocalNeal]

16 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Reply in reference to the OP stating ICEV cost half what an EV cost, in which only the very basic ICEV is priced below 499k baht.  Guess they're fine if that's all somebody wants or can afford.  Just wife, dog & myself need a lot more room & power.  I doubt if the Celerio could have gone up a couple hills we've gone up, or carry what we need when out and about.

 

Besides I can't even get in the dame thing, comfortably.  And can't imagine driving on the highway in one for over an hour.  I thought the Vios & Mazda 2 were POS on the road, but fine locally.

 

The comparisons people are making are just silly, and this one in OP, besides silly is simply false.

 

Celerio vs VW ... haven't a clue, but I'd never own a VW, any VW.  Can't believe a damn thing they say.

 

OK but it is horses for courses. If all one needs is a car for local transport then a Celerio is adequate. Agreed you don't look like a celebrity getting out of one but I have reached a level of maturity where that doesn't matter to me. 

My local Suzuki dealer has moved to the next city so that may matter to SWMBO but I doubt it would. As for hills, the Celerio doesn't have to pull all those batteries uphill our pets are like dogs but smaller. I think the base model is around 399,000 at last look with top-of-the-line about 425,000. 

There again some people chose to do without a car altogether. 

Edited February 28 by VocalNeal

[kwak250]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Neither would take longer than it took you to have a cup of coffee and a toilet break.

Wow so to fully charge a ev takes 15 minutes?

[kwak250]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

They vary between 6 and 30 minutes

6 mins for 400km is this true if so that is impressive still wouldn't buy one .

[KhunLA]

17 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

OK but it is horses for courses. If all one needs is a car for local transport then a Celerio is adequate. Agreed you don't look like a celebrity getting out of one but I have reached a level of maturity where that doesn't matter to me. 

My local Suzuki dealer has moved to the next city so that may matter to SWMBO but I doubt it would. As for hills, the Celerio doesn't have to pull all those batteries uphill our pets are like dogs but smaller. I think the base model is around 399,000 at last look with top-of-the-line about 425,000. 

I would have to spring for the extra 48k and get a NETA V, and kind of like them, although haven't sat in one, but specs & dimension would win me over any entry level ICEV in TH.  Only familiar with Vios (now Varis) or Mazda 2, and wouldn't think of buying one again.

 

Celerio 

 

NETA V if still discounted

 

Edited February 28 by KhunLA

[VocalNeal]

On balance most, if not all, cars don't excite me. I could get fired up about a GR Yaris but don't feel justified to front up the 2.5+ million for one. 

Must be a thing because it is a 3cyl. just like Celerio. 

[JBChiangRai]

30 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Currently, it depends on lifestyle choices and where you live. Here in the rural NE you'ld be very brave to make the change at the moment. But change will come, and then perhaps another.

 

At my local PTT in Prasat there's a 2-car recharging installation right beside where we often eat brunch. It's been there about 3 months not operational. Became operational (as far as I can judge - covers removed) a week ago. Will be fascinated to see my first (ie someone else's) EV pull up for a dose ...

 

Don't forget if you have a charger at home you will never need a charging station within 150km or 300km if you're destination is further than 300km away.

 

24 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

Comparing the time to plug in with time to refuel? Let's try this: 2 cars, one ev and the other ice, both have a 350 km range. Driving from Bangkok to Chiang mai, both starting with full tank\battery.

At the 350 km mark both have to refuel\recharge. Now go compare the time needed.

 

Both would be ready by the time I have had a coffee, sandwich & pee.

 

4 minutes ago, kwak250 said:

Wow so to fully charge a ev takes 15 minutes?

 

Some can yes. Some cars can charge at almost 2,000 km/hr. My car charges at nearly 700km/hr.