Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[Bkk Brian]

20 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, she represents 10% of the total population. 

 

No she doesn't, Israel has a total population of over 9 million. A.J. obviously was referring to the Jewish population only.

[Bkk Brian]

Back on topic to the daily developments in the war. a reminder of where the rats hide amongst the civilians, the most senior Hamas figure killed so far was lurking in his tunnel under a refugee camp. Human shields above him.

 

US reports death of senior Hamas military leader Marwan Issa

As deputy military commander, Mr Issa would be Hamas's most senior leader to die since the war began on 7 October.

Israeli media sources have reported that Mr Issa was killed in a strike on a tunnel complex under the Nuseirat refugee camp in central Gaza last week.

 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68578735#:~:text=US reports death of senior Hamas military leader Marwan Issa

[Wobblybob]

Another one of Hamas leaders hiding in Shifa hospital has been eliminated.

 

 

Edited March 19 by Wobblybob

[Bkk Brian]

50 Hamas terrorists now killed in the Al-Shifa hospital raid.

 

Al-Shifa hospital raid: IDF says over 50 terrorists killed in battle as targeted operation continues

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

She's leader of the settlers. She speaks for the settlers, all of them presumably. She's not some random cleaning lady even if she looks like one.

Don't be so stupid.

No group is a monolith.

Not all settlers are right wing extremists.

Many are there mainly because they can't afford decent housing in regular Israel.

Everything has to black and white with you. The real world is much more complicated.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Don't be so stupid.

No group is a monolith.

Not all settlers are right wing extremists.

Many are there mainly because they can't afford decent housing in regular Israel.

Everything has to black and white with you. The real world is much more complicated.

 

She holds an elected position. But, hey. You're the one who can't see any fault by Israel. I see both sides. You clearly don't.

Edited March 19 by ozimoron

[Nick Carter icp]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I certainly believe the heroes of the IDF beat up prisoners and parade ( humiliate ) them only in underpants, both of which are apparently crimes.

 

   If it was done solely to humiliate, then it would be a crime  , but if the intention was to search for weapons then it is allowed .

   They also were not paraded , they were told to remove their clothes and then wear other clothes , and someone filmed it without permission

[Nick Carter icp]

26 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Another one of Hamas leaders hiding in Shifa hospital has been eliminated.

 

 

 

   At lease the IDF are making progress , he doesn't look like a woman or a child and he must be the first Palestinian non woman or child that is a casualty in this war

[Nick Carter icp]

5 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Israeli settler leader Daniella Weiss, head of the Nahala settlement movement and former mayor of Kedumim, an Israeli settlement located in the West Bank, said that “no Arab will remain in Gaza” after the war and that those “who want to have a quiet life” should migrate to other countries.

 

 

From another interview:

"All of Gaza belongs to the Land of Israel."

"We've just seen the Arabs leaving their homes, we have to invade."

 

 

 

   There needs to be a solution to the problem , otherwise it will be a never ending war .

Something drastic needs to happen 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

She holds an elected position. But, hey. You're the one who can't see any fault by Israel. I see both sides. You clearly don't.

More stupidity. Being elected doesn't mean your views gel with 100 percent of your region.

Stop lying about my views on Israel. 

Yeah you're a real 50 50 kind of guy.

Edited March 19 by Jingthing

[Nick Carter icp]

The posters that keep saying that they are neutral and unbiased and see both sides of the dispute are the most one sided biased posters on the site .

   Extremists who keep claiming to be moderates 

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

The posters that keep saying that they are neutral and unbiased and see both sides of the dispute are the most one sided biased posters on the site .

   Extremists who keep claiming to be moderates 

Bingo.

I'm not neutral.

I support the right of Israel to exist and defend itself.

I know for a fact that Jews are indigenous to Israel and the leftist narrative of apartheid, "white" colonialization, and genocide is a crock.

I think Hamas set up a trap and Israel felt they had no choice but to fall into it resulting in Israel badly losing the PR war. Possibly permanent damage to the future of Israel. I hope not but Israel demonizers have cause for optimism.

I can also see that Israel has made mistakes and that Netanyahu has been a disaster.

Edited March 19 by Jingthing

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

More stupidity. Being elected doesn't mean your views gel with 100 percent of your region.

Stop lying about my views on Israel. 

Yeah you're a real 50 50 kind of guy.

 

I am. I have condemned Hamas. But that was 5 months ago now. When was the last Israeli strike killing civilians? Oh that's right, it was today. And every day.

 

Please give me a quick recap. Which actions of Israel have you "condemned"?

 

They may not have all voted for her but she is their leader and therefore does speak for all of them.

Edited March 19 by ozimoron

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I am. I have condemned Hamas. But that was 5 months ago now. When was the last Israeli strike killing civilians? Oh that's right, it was today. And every day.

 

Please give me a quick recap. Which actions of Israel have you "condemned"?

 

They may not have all voted for her but she is their leader and therefore does speak for all of them.

Yeah when Trump was president he spoke for me. Sure thing, dude.

He never got a majority of votes and never will. 

Hamas is on record as having every intention of doing October 7 attacks again and again and again and their intention is to kill all the Jews.

Yet to you it's a bad thing that Israel is stopping them at least for now.

Hamas still holds hostages as well. 

Calling for an unconditional cease fire is calling for Israel to surrender, and why should they?

I'm not going to play into your simple minded cheap gotcha condemn on demand game.

I said they made mistakes. 

I said Netanyahu shouldn't be in power.

Going back I doubt October 7 would have happened if Netanyahu wasn't in power then, but that doesn't mean he's to blame for what the Hamas terrorists did and continue to intend to do if they are effectively crushed by Israel.

Edited March 19 by Jingthing

[Wobblybob]

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I am. I have condemned Hamas. But that was 5 months ago now. When was the last Israeli strike killing civilians? Oh that's right, it was today. And every day.

 

Please give me a quick recap. Which actions of Israel have you "condemned"?

 

They may not have all voted for her but she is their leader and therefore does speak for all of them.

You may have condemned Hamas but whether you were sincere about it is very suspect, you do nothing but berate Israel and accept the terrorists 'facts and figures' in this war. It is safe to say that Hamas is being manipulative with the figures that they are giving their gullible followers. They are conning you and you chose to believe these monsters that are capable of the worst and disgusting crimes unbelievable to mankind! 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Wobblybob said:

You may have condemned Hamas but whether you were sincere about it is very suspect, you do nothing but berate Israel and accept the terrorists 'facts and figures' in this war. It is safe to say that Hamas is being manipulative with the figures that they are giving their gullible followers. They are conning you and you chose to believe these monsters that are capable of the worst and disgusting crimes unbelievable to mankind! 

Yeah I also don't find his "condemnation" at all sincere.

[rattlesnake]

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   There needs to be a solution to the problem , otherwise it will be a never ending war .

Something drastic needs to happen 

 

Please clearly say what you mean by that.

[JustAnotherHun]

What could the Israelis do when Hamas terrorists hide behind civilians and in hospitals? Relax and let them plan the next massacre?

They do what others did and would do in the same situation.

 

Remember "Operation Vigilant Resolve" and "Operation Phantom Fury" in 2004, when the US bombed the city of Faludscha? They used Phosphor bombs, uranium ammunition and cluster bombs.

 

By the way: Where are the arab brothers? Egypt could easily open their border for civilians? 

[ozimoron]

38 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah I also don't find his "condemnation" at all sincere.

 

Trust me you should. I'm a wasp with no known ancestors born outside Australia and no team allegiances. I call balls and strikes as I see them. It seems fundamental to me that every distinct population should have it's own state and I fail to understand why anybody should see it differently, especially Jews over all populations. The other major issue I have is why the Kurds don't have sovereignty over their own state. Does your head explode to contemplate that I can condemn both sides equally. Why exactly do you have a problem taking my statements at face value?

 

Again, It's Israel who is the bigger problem right now. On October 7th that would have been Hamas. Biden said the obstacle to peace is Netanyahu. I agree with him. It's not Israelis, it's Bibi and his extremist cabal of war criminals. I applaud that Israel killed the most senior Hamas official since october 7th but do rather wish he was in the Hague instead.

 

Edited March 19 by ozimoron

[rattlesnake]

3 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

John Spencer chairman of urban warfare studies at West Point described Israels achievement as unprecedented, especially given the complex combat conditions.

A lot of people would agree that Hamas themselves are responsible for more Palestian deaths than anyone else.

 

 

 

 

The article she refers to was written by Ophir Falk, Netanyahu's foreign policy advisor.

 

[rattlesnake]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

In an unprecedented legal development, senior Australian politicians, including Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, have been referred to the International Criminal Court (ICC) for investigation into whether they have aided or supported Israel’s actions in Gaza.

 

The referral, made by the Sydney law firm Birchgrove Legal on behalf of their clients, is the first time any serving Australian political leaders have been formally referred to the ICC for investigation.

 

The referral asserts that Albanese, Foreign Minister Penny Wong, Opposition Leader Peter Dutton and other members of the government have violated the Rome Statute, the 1998 treaty that established the ICC to investigate and prosecute allegations of war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity.

 

https://theconversation.com/why-have-anthony-albanese-and-other-politicians-been-referred-to-the-icc-over-the-gaza-war-225079

 

As the article says, it's unlikely to go anywhere, but this is still a positive development, this type of exposure is very welcome.

[Wobblybob]

28 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The article she refers to was written by Ophir Falk, Netanyahu's foreign policy advisor.

 

She was quoting the Wall Street Journal! 

[rattlesnake]

19 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

She was quoting the Wall Street Journal! 

 

Yes indeed, the opinion piece Israel Will Defeat Hamas in Rafah, published in the Wall Street Journal on March 14 2024, was written by Netanyahu's top foreign policy advisor Ophir Falk.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, Wobblybob said:

You may have condemned Hamas but whether you were sincere about it is very suspect, you do nothing but berate Israel and accept the terrorists 'facts and figures' in this war. It is safe to say that Hamas is being manipulative with the figures that they are giving their gullible followers. They are conning you and you chose to believe these monsters that are capable of the worst and disgusting crimes unbelievable to mankind! 

 

   Its often like " I do condemn Hamas for the attack, but I can understand why they did it "

"Hamas shouldn't have carried out the Oct 7 th attack , but what else could they have done "

"I do condemn the Hamas terrorists , just as I condemn the Israeli terrorists"

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Its often like " I do condemn Hamas for the attack, but I can understand why they did it "

"Hamas shouldn't have carried out the Oct 7 th attack , but what else could they have done "

"I do condemn the Hamas terrorists , just as I condemn the Israeli terrorists"

 

Sentence 2 is BS, the others I will gladly own. Understanding why things happen is NOT condoning them. I consider the ability to rationalize why some things happen to be a marker of my intelligence. Conversely, an inability to understand why things happen is generally intellectual dishonesty , assuming one is literate.

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The article she refers to was written by Ophir Falk, Netanyahu's foreign policy advisor.

 

The article she referred to was quoting John Spencer who is not an actor, an economist or even a politician but a real life urban warfare expert who knows far more than those and us. Here's some of his professional opinions on the war against Hamas.

 

Hospitals Are Protected Under International Law. But They Cannot be 'Off Limits' | Opinion

That is also why international law specifically requires that hospitals not be used to shield military objectives from attack, for example, if a hospital is used for "interference, direct or indirect, in military operations, such as the use of a hospital as a shelter for able-bodied combatants or fugitives, as an arms or ammunition store, as a military observation post, or as a center for liaison with combat forces," per the U.S. Department of Defense law of war manual. Such uses can lead to a hospital losing its protected status.

Because of all the special protections surrounding hospitals, they have alarmingly and increasingly been used for military purposes by combatants such as Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), and especially Hamas, who historically do not follow the laws of war and intentionally shield themselves behind protected objects and groups.

https://www.newsweek.com/hospitals-are-protected-under-international-law-they-cannot-off-limits-opinion-1871757

 

I Have Delivered Aid in War Zones. They Were the Missions We Feared Most | Opinion

Soldiers always have the right of self-defense. That must never be taken from them. In urban areas, especially those still active war zones, the threats are everywhere. In the case of Gaza where heavy fighting continues, threats can be snipers, rocket propelled grenades. We know Hamas dressed in civilian clothes have been walking up to armored vehicles to place magnet bombs and fire into the crowd during aid distribution. Much of combat is about seeking control, and one of the reasons delivering aid in a combat zone is so hectic is because of how control can be lost in a millisecond.

https://www.newsweek.com/i-have-delivered-aid-war-zones-they-were-missions-we-feared-most-opinion-1876536

 

Israel Implemented More Measures to Prevent Civilian Casualties Than Any Other Nation in History | Opinion

No military fighting an entrenched enemy in dense urban terrain in an area barely twice the size of Washington D.C. can avoid all civilian casualties. Reports of over 25,000 Palestinians killed, be they civilians or Hamas, have made headlines. But Israel has taken more measures to avoid needless civilian harm than virtually any other nation that's fought an urban war.

In fact, as someone who has served two tours in Iraq and studied urban warfare for over a decade, Israel has taken precautionary measures even the United States did not do during its recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-other-nation-history-opinion-1865613

 

Memo to the 'Experts': Stop Comparing Israel's War in Gaza to Anything. It Has No Precedent | Opinion

Yet while the use of historical analogy may be tempting for armchair pundits, in the case of Israel's current war, the comparisons are often poorly cited, the data used inaccurate, and crucial context left out. Given the scale and context of an enemy purposely entrenched in densely populated urban areas, as well as the presence of tunnels, hostages, rockets, attackers that follow the laws of war while defenders purposely do not, and proximity between the frontlines and the home front, there is basically no historical comparison for this war.

Hamas' strategy is to use Palestinian civilians as human shields, because their goal is not to defeat Israel's military or to hold terrain; it is far more sinister and medieval—to use the death and suffering of Palestinian civilians to rally international support to their cause and demand that Israel halt their war.

https://www.newsweek.com/memo-experts-stop-comparing-israels-war-gaza-anything-it-has-no-precedent-opinion-1868891

 

[Wobblybob]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Sentence 2 is BS, the others I will gladly own. Understanding why things happen is NOT condoning them. I consider the ability to rationalize why some things happen to be a marker of my intelligence. Conversely, an inability to understand why things happen is generally intellectual dishonesty , assuming one is literate.

Personally I will never understand why demented monsters would set fire to whole families whilst still in their houses or sexually mutilate innocent women, but that is the difference between you and "literate" thinking homo sapiens, vile! 

There is no excuses for their behavior even you seem to think that there is! 

[WDSmart]

11 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

The posters that keep saying that they are neutral and unbiased and see both sides of the dispute are the most one sided biased posters on the site .

   Extremists who keep claiming to be moderates 

The reason the posters, like me, say we are "neutral and unbiased and see both sides" mainly post anti-Israeli information is to try to compensate for the almost totally anti-Palestinian information posters, like you, who are solidly pro-Israeli and anti-Palistinian. We know there are two sides to this story and want to make sure readers get to read about both sides.

[WDSmart]

8 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Its often like " I do condemn Hamas for the attack, but I can understand why they did it "

"Hamas shouldn't have carried out the Oct 7 th attack , but what else could they have done "

"I do condemn the Hamas terrorists , just as I condemn the Israeli terrorists"

 

I agree with all the quotes you have cited above... 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

The reason the posters, like me, say we are "neutral and unbiased and see both sides" mainly post anti-Israeli information is to try to compensate for the almost totally anti-Palestinian information posters, like you, who are solidly pro-Israeli and anti-Palistinian. We know there are two sides to this story and want to make sure readers get to read about both sides.

 

    You claim that I  am Anti Palestinian , in the same way that you are Anti Israeli .

I do not have ab agenda against all Palestinians World wide , I do not attack supporters of Palestine , I don't boycott Palestinian made goods  , I do not attack pro Palestinian politicians .

    I just want the Palestinians in Israel to live peacefully side by side with Jews .

Although I support Zionism and Israel, I am not anti Palestinian .

Many of the pro Palestinian group are anti sematic Jew haters , who just use the Palestinian cause to further their anti Semitic opinion .

    Your hatred of Israel is not the same as my disagreeing with Palestinians violence