Big layoffs ahead in the automotive workshop sector - hold on to your hats!

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Ok, I'll try one last time. Oh, and by the way, you can't have it both ways. You posted an article that says 22% of Chinese EV owners surveyed said they would not buy another one. You're happy to post that. But when I say that means 78% are fine with their decision you say it's not allowed because "The article doesn't mention if they are asked the question are you happy with your choice of vehicle or not".

 

So it's ok to post the negative aspect without knowing the exact question asked but not ok to infer the opposite without knowing the exact question asked.

So, if the article is saying 22% of those asked said they wouldn't buy another EV what question do you think they were asked? Do they like turnips? What's their favourite colour? Or perhaps "would you buy another EV?". Maybe?

I hope you can see the hypocrisy now. Probably not, but for sure everyone else can.

 

I posted "A report by McKinsey China has shown significant disillusionment among Chinese electric car owners in 2023, with 22% stating they wouldn’t consider new energy vehicles (NEVs) for their next car

yes we don't know the question asked in the survey it might have been Will your next car be a NEV

Now what we don't know is what was the response of the other 78% it might have been yes next car will be a NEV or it might have been a % for yes and a % for not sure or a % will say depends on what is available when we come to replace our current model 

So we don't know the question that was asked and we don't know the response from the other 78% there may have been multiple replies 

As stated

All your claims of 78% are fake and Your claimed 78% are happy with their choice is a figment of your imagination there isn't a single mention in the article where it states that 78% are happy

[billd766]

13 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Maybe some of the other 78% don't understand the question, because they are intellectually challenged like (insert EV haters names here).

Down to insulting people now, because they disagree with you.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

Down to insulting people now, because they disagree with you.

 

My humour went over your head. 

[JBChiangRai]

15 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So you are too lazy to search for a link to refute the link I posted, and rherefore I am supposed to accept your unsupported word.

 

To quote my old teacher at secondary school.

 

Poor effort, must try harder.

 

He was right about me, just as I am right about you.

 

Nonsense.  There are probably less than 10 EV haters that post here, you being one of them.  Once a claim is refuted and accepted with source posted, I am not going back over >200 pages to find it for you, you probably read it anyway are just being obtuse.

 

Your own link provided enough evidence that those EV's are from bankrupt ride share companies.

[billd766]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Nonsense.  There are probably less than 10 EV haters that post here, you being one of them.  Once a claim is refuted and accepted with source posted, I am not going back over >200 pages to find it for you, you probably read it anyway are just being obtuse.

 

Your own link provided enough evidence that those EV's are from bankrupt ride share companies.

What happened to your link? Or are you still too lazy to look for it?

[billd766]

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

My humour went over your head. 

You have a sense of humour?

 

Wonders will never cease.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

What happened to your link? Or are you still too lazy to look for it?

 

Yes, that's right.

 

I do get your humour btw 🙂

[Ben Zioner]

24 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Down to insulting people now, because they disagree with you.

I would agree that "mentally challenged" is a bit strong, I would have phrased it as "pathologically resistant to [ineluctable] change".

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

I would agree that "mentally challenged" is a bit strong, I would have phrased it as "pathologically resistant to [ineluctable] change".

 

I thought I was probably complimenting them

[Startmeup]

https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/teslas-turmoil-the-ev-meltdown-in?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=630873&post_id=143793696&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=parw0&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

[josephbloggs]

43 minutes ago, Startmeup said:

https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/teslas-turmoil-the-ev-meltdown-in?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=630873&post_id=143793696&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=parw0&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

You do know that Robert Bryce is funded by big oil, right? He has a history of writing misleading and untrue stories against all types of renewable energy (wind, solar). So he's hardly an impartial journalist - he has a clear mandate to protect the oil companies that pay him and keep them profitable as long as possible: it's his job.

Edited April 22 by josephbloggs

[Startmeup]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

You do know that Robert Bryce is funded by big oil, right? He has a history of writing misleading and untrue stories against all types of renewable energy (wind, solar). So he's hardly an impartial journalist - he has a clear mandate to protect the oil companies that pay him and keep them profitable as long as possible: it's his job.

All the points he is making is referenced in that article to third party sources such as the DOE, IEA, natural history museum etc. Doesn't look to be untrue or misleading if it is then it's those third parties being misleading? 

Edited April 22 by Startmeup

[JBChiangRai]

6 hours ago, Startmeup said:

All the points he is making is referenced in that article to third party sources such as the DOE, IEA, natural history museum etc. Doesn't look to be untrue or misleading if it is then it's those third parties being misleading? 

 

A lot of the points he is making are patently untrue.

 

Chart 2 has nothing to do with EV's

Chart 3 sneakers & politics has nothing to do with EV's

Chart 4 www.thezebra.com/resources/research/electric-vehicles-report/

That article states the major obstacle to buyers is cost, exactly what we have seen in Thailand after the government removed tariffs.

EY research: Nearly half of US car buyers intend to purchase an EV | EY - US

Chart 5 Irrelevant other than to show how successful local government can be in increasing uptake of EV's

Chart 6 Complete nonsense, there are 1.5M EV's in California, population owning cars is about 25M, if everybody switched overnight to an EV it would require 35.5 TwHrs more power, not the 130 quoted in the article, calculated on average mileages.

Chart 7 Is already out of date as it's 4 years old and talking about NMC batteries which most manufacturers now use very little of, they use LFP batteries.

Chart 8 Let's keep politics and Christianity out of it, it's irrelevant

Chart 9 & 10 Some of it is true, but it's simply an issue of managing growth and supply chains.

 

I don't understand how this guy can be taken seriously.

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

5 hours ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

which are on life support....cybertrucks gasp for last breath...Elons seems a wiz at turning a good idea into crap--twitter--cybertruck--hyperloop..etc

 

Elon's intelligence & critical thinking is his own best asset

Elon's complete lack of common sense and craving of an audience kills his businesses.

[josephbloggs]

7 hours ago, Startmeup said:

All the points he is making is referenced in that article to third party sources such as the DOE, IEA, natural history museum etc. Doesn't look to be untrue or misleading if it is then it's those third parties being misleading? 

When someone is funded by an organisation or organisations he is writing in favour of he should declare it to have any hope of being taken seriously. In fact a group of journalists and educators petitioned the NY Times on this very point and the very same person - Robert Bryce - and that to maintain journalistic integrity the source of the writer's funding needs to be clear. 

JB did a much better job than I could of explaining how he has taken old facts and slanted them or mis-stated the "facts" completely.

But as I said the man has a history and is dishonest, funded by big oil to denigrate renewables, and therefore cannot be trusted or taken seriously.

[Photoguy21]

On 4/22/2024 at 3:03 PM, JBChiangRai said:

 

There was an article about battery degradation some time back, they analysed a bunch of Tesla's and said 18+ years was normal, the article is in Electric Vehicles in Thailand or EV's vs ICE the debate thread somewhere.

 

The manufacturer of the EV I sold because of price concerns also sell a lot of ICE sports cars and all that manufacturer's models are ruinously expensive to service & repair, and all the tyres are ludicrously expensive for that brand, likewise insurance. None of these reasons were in any way due to it being an EV.

 

Lets hope they are right for all that buy an EV. It sounds very optimistic but good if they do last that long. I have heard and read more reports of the batteries needing to be replaced a lot quicker than that and a friend of mind had to replace the batteries in his EV just a few years after buying it from new.

[safarimike11]

On 3/15/2024 at 7:33 PM, Korat Kiwi said:

There is the beginnings of a backlash in many countries already. 

 

Chinese taxi companies that put big dollars into a complete overhaul are finding no resale in used EVs. 

 

Power prices are rising and some countries are introducing road user charges for EVs. 

 

So all is not as some people paint it. 

 

Battery replacement is also another big cost.  7 years life on 1st Gen EVs.  I feel for those poor suckers. 

 

I think in the future EVs will take over,  but not at this moment.  Too many unknowns 

On the subject of EVs, did you see this from Yahoo (U.S.): yahoo news teslas can be viewed from space - Google Search

[connda]

I'll believe it when I see it.  EV are on the parabolic side of government hyperbole but my guess is when EVs crash battery and electric infrastructure first into economic realities, gas powered cars will be with us much longer than "The Polar Icecaps Are Melting" XR types will lead you to believe.  The guy down the street fixing cars and motorcycles will die of old age before he's out of work.

[safarimike11]

On 3/15/2024 at 9:22 PM, BritManToo said:

I think EVs are a fad that will soon pass.

I may well be wrong, but I fear that the Thai automotive sector will soon turn into multiple assembly plants for Chinese EVs, at the expense of long-term Japanese companies like Honda and Toyota (Toyoda in Thailand) who will be closing down and shipping back to Japan.

[JBChiangRai]

9 hours ago, safarimike11 said:

I may well be wrong, but I fear that the Thai automotive sector will soon turn into multiple assembly plants for Chinese EVs, at the expense of long-term Japanese companies like Honda and Toyota (Toyoda in Thailand) who will be closing down and shipping back to Japan.

 

I think you are right.  The Japanese failed to invest in EV's and are now paying the price.  Honda's worldwide sales were down 40% last year, their profit dropped by 99% and they are closing 5 factories all over the world.

 

Thailand and Norway show what an enlightened government can do.  The market share of EV's has grown every month in Thailand since February and the corresponding market share of legacy cars has decreased.

 

Tesla made it fairly obvious many years ago where we were heading.  I dislike both Toyota and Tesla for the same reason, they are both driven by one man without the necessary checks & balances of strong board members.  Tesla is Elon Musk and Toyota has been Akio Toyoda until last year but he is now Chairman and still has far too much input on strategy and he's a self-confessed EV hater.

 

The other Japanese automakers tend to follow Toyota except Nissan who have lost their way since the demise of Carlos Ghosn and risk going bankrupt (S&P downrated their credit status to Junk in March this year).

 

Japan may be late to the market, but IMHO they would be better trying to play "catch up" than their disinformation campaign on EV's and stop lobbying governments to slowdown EV adoption.

[vinny41]

Both Honda and Toyota seem to be doing very well

TOKYO (AP) — Honda reported Wednesday that its profit rose 8.7% in the April-June quarter as strong sales of hybrid vehicles in Japan and the U.S., and motorcycles in India and Brazil, boosted the Japanese automaker’s earnings.

Honda Motor Co.’s profit in the last quarter totaled 394.7 billion yen ($2.7 billion), up from 363 billion yen a year earlier. Quarterly sales rose nearly 17% to 5.4 trillion yen ($36.7 billion).

Eiji Fujimura, Honda’s chief financial officer, said the currency effect remained uncertain, but stressed that Honda was focused on delivering the right products to various markets, helping making it relatively resilient to currency effects.

https://apnews.com/article/honda-japan-profit-motorcycles-67d85ea05c07e02569cfdc1f1a9195e0

TOKYO (AP) — Toyota reported Thursday that its April-June profit rose 1.7%, boosted by a favorable exchange rate, as vehicle sales grew around the world despite a certification scandal that halted production in Japan for several months.

Fiscal first quarter profit at Japan’s top automaker rose to 1.33 trillion yen ($8.9 billion), a record profit for that period, from 1.31 trillion yen the same period a year ago.

Quarterly sales edged up 12% to 11.8 trillion yen ($79 billion).

https://apnews.com/article/toyota-earnings-japan-automaker-6e88247feaba1d1ee8e9de06a0f58d56

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Both Honda and Toyota seem to be doing very well

TOKYO (AP) — Honda reported Wednesday that its profit rose 8.7% in the April-June quarter as strong sales of hybrid vehicles in Japan and the U.S., and motorcycles in India and Brazil, boosted the Japanese automaker’s earnings.

Honda Motor Co.’s profit in the last quarter totaled 394.7 billion yen ($2.7 billion), up from 363 billion yen a year earlier. Quarterly sales rose nearly 17% to 5.4 trillion yen ($36.7 billion).

Eiji Fujimura, Honda’s chief financial officer, said the currency effect remained uncertain, but stressed that Honda was focused on delivering the right products to various markets, helping making it relatively resilient to currency effects.

https://apnews.com/article/honda-japan-profit-motorcycles-67d85ea05c07e02569cfdc1f1a9195e0

TOKYO (AP) — Toyota reported Thursday that its April-June profit rose 1.7%, boosted by a favorable exchange rate, as vehicle sales grew around the world despite a certification scandal that halted production in Japan for several months.

Fiscal first quarter profit at Japan’s top automaker rose to 1.33 trillion yen ($8.9 billion), a record profit for that period, from 1.31 trillion yen the same period a year ago.

Quarterly sales edged up 12% to 11.8 trillion yen ($79 billion).

https://apnews.com/article/toyota-earnings-japan-automaker-6e88247feaba1d1ee8e9de06a0f58d56

 

You're right, I was mixing Honda with Nissan, what I should have said was...

 

A week or so ago Nissan posted their results for the preceding 3 months.  Nissan said its operating profit had collapsed 99% to 995m yen (225M THB) in the three months to 30 June, with worldwide sales flatlining at just under 800,000 units.

 

It is Honda however that is closing 5 of factories worldwide due to weak demand.

[KhunLA]

I don't think Nissan, Subaru or Suzuki will be around too much longer 

 

Scaled way back to markets in JP and USA maybe.

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

You're right, I was mixing Honda with Nissan, what I should have said was...

 

A week or so ago Nissan posted their results for the preceding 3 months.  Nissan said its operating profit had collapsed 99% to 995m yen (225M THB) in the three months to 30 June, with worldwide sales flatlining at just under 800,000 units.

 

It is Honda however that is closing 5 of factories worldwide due to weak demand.

and yet Honda posted  incrreased sales and profits worldwide 

[JBChiangRai]

28 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

and yet Honda posted  incrreased sales and profits worldwide 

 

Well if it is so rosy, why are they closing 5 factories?

[BritManToo]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

 

Well if it is so rosy, why are they closing 5 factories?

The Chinese are undercutting the Japanese. Hard to sell stuff at double the price of the Chinese cars.

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The Chinese are undercutting the Japanese. Hard to sell stuff at double the price of the Chinese cars.

 

Agreed, they are closing the factories because of weak demand.

[transam]

40 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I don't think Nissan, Subaru or Suzuki will be around too much longer 

 

Scaled way back to markets in JP and USA maybe.

Suzuki have huge sales in India.....Lets not forget the up and coming, India..😉

 

[vinny41]

15 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Well if it is so rosy, why are they closing 5 factories?

My understanding is of the 2 factories in Thailand they are consolidating all  vehicle production into a single plant which they opened in 2016  and the older plant opened in 1996 will still remain open building car parts instead of vehicle production

Likewise Honda closed its only vehicle production plant in Europe ( Swindon) in 2021 there was many reasons but at the time there was a new EU-Japan trade deal which "effectively removed tariffs on Japanese-built cars imported into Europe  Hence vehicle production in Europe surplus to requirements

[KhunLA]

47 minutes ago, transam said:

Suzuki have huge sales in India.....Lets not forget the up and coming, India..😉

 

 

and IN India, not so much, as less than 2019