Swiss Expat Critically Injured in Scooter-Car Crash in Pattaya

richard_smith237 · April 24

2 minutes ago, connda said:

Let me reiterate:
First:
Who had the most to lose by "being first" to enter the uncontrolled intersection?
The SUV driver? Nope. Uninjured.
The EV driver? Sucks to be in ICU.

Second:

Traffic coming from the left in uncontrolled intersections in Thailand have the right-of-way. Ignorance of driving laws is not bliss. It gets you killed.

Third:
The accident was avoidable had the most vulnerable driver (Khun EV in ICU) slowed, looked, and attempted to evade. I was driving in Chiang Mai today can had a number of "near misses" including some ***-wipe who almost ran my wife over in a zebra-crossing when he ran the red-light. The Mrs is aware of her surroundings and would rather not be "in ICU even though it was the other guys fault." Nope. The Mrs stopped because she saw it coming. Unlike Khun EV in ICU.

Fourth:
When you're in ICU or being cremated, "fault" will be determined by the Thai justice system. But "fault" doesn't do you a tinker's-damn after you've been T-boned by a car and they are spreading your ashes in some river - or - you're languishing the rest of your life as a paraplegic.

And again - I'd like to see AN/Thaiger stay on top of this story so that everyone has a clear understanding of the consequences of a situation like this - one that should be avoided at all costs by all parties.

First: how far back from the junction was the SUV when the Mobility-Trike entered the junction ? 60m ? More ?

Second: Priority to Traffic from left rule is in place when vehicles arrive at unmarked junctions (x-roads of roads of the same status) - when roads have a different status there is a white line which denotes to give way (& sometime a Stop & / or Give way sign).

Second point is moot because trike was already in the junction before the SUV reached your Junction.

Third: Agree - trike being most vulnerable should have been more careful of his one safety.
SUV should also have been more careful of the consideration & safety of others. Particularly as approach from the left was blind (blocked by shops).

Forth: 100% agree because idiots like the SUV driver will always be around do drive & rude defensively - the trike rider was most certainly not riding defensively.

And / Again: 100% agree, sadly we never see a follow up - that involves investigative questioning & follow up, I.e. effort & that’s not worth the while of getting out of the office when more stories can simply be copied & pasted or pumped through AI to trigger hits.

connda · April 24

4 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

It's an uncontrolled intersection, so the rule here is to proceed slowly and keep your eyes open for oncoming vehicles. It's a courtesy system which the foreigner does not understand. It's also good to proceed more carefully if you're on a bike and heed to bigger vehicles. I would say the foreigner thought that he had absolute right of way.

Also, offering "sorry" to the damaged party is the wrong thing to do. Insurance policies normally stipulate in the fine print never to admit liability in any accident. If they find out you did, they can refuse your claim. It was right for the car driver to leave it up to the insurance company to sort it out.

As a farang - keep up-to-date insurance with a reputable company and make sure it has at least a 2 million THB bail bond rider. Then let the insurance company handle the accident. The only people you talk with: the cops and the insurance adjuster.

connda · April 24

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

First: how far back from the junction was the SUV when the Mobility-Trike entered the junction ? 60m ? More ?

Second: Priority to Traffic from left rule is in place when vehicles arrive at unmarked junctions (x-roads of roads of the same status) - when roads have a different status there is a white line which denotes to give way (& sometime a Stop & / or Give way sign).

Second point is moot because trike was already in the junction before the SUV reached your Junction.

Third: Agree - trike being most vulnerable should have been more careful of his one safety.
SUV should also have been more careful of the consideration & safety of others. Particularly as approach from the left was blind (blocked by shops).

Forth: 100% agree because idiots like the SUV driver will always be around do drive & rude defensively - the trike rider was most certainly not riding defensively.

And / Again: 100% agree, sadly we never see a follow up - that involves investigative questioning & follow up, I.e. effort & that’s not worth the while of getting out of the office when more stories can simply be copied & pasted or pumped through AI to trigger hits.

:thumbsup:

Bottom line - this only gets resolved by the cops and the courts. But I'm really interested in how it is resolved.

Edited April 24 by connda

JensenZ · April 24

9 hours ago, connda said:

First - Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Thailand or in left-lane countries, those on the "Left" in an unmarked intersection have the right-of-way.

In Australia, you give way to all vehicles approaching from the right.

Ralf001 · April 24

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

rude defensively

Ehh ?

PJ71 · April 24

12 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

First: how far back from the junction was the SUV when the Mobility-Trike entered the junction ? 60m ? More ?

Second: Priority to Traffic from left rule is in place when vehicles arrive at unmarked junctions (x-roads of roads of the same status) - when roads have a different status there is a white line which denotes to give way (& sometime a Stop & / or Give way sign).

Second point is moot because trike was already in the junction before the SUV reached your Junction.

Third: Agree - trike being most vulnerable should have been more careful of his one safety.
SUV should also have been more careful of the consideration & safety of others. Particularly as approach from the left was blind (blocked by shops).

Forth: 100% agree because idiots like the SUV driver will always be around do drive & rude defensively - the trike rider was most certainly not riding defensively.

And / Again: 100% agree, sadly we never see a follow up - that involves investigative questioning & follow up, I.e. effort & that’s not worth the while of getting out of the office when more stories can simply be copied & pasted or pumped through AI to trigger hits.

Give it a rest Dicky, every single RTA on here you just go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on, you get the picture, most people ( like myself ) just think you're a stiff.

SAFETY FIRST · April 25

I just heard on the local radio station that the vehicles travelling east/west have right of way when entering intersections on the railway road.

If you have ever travelled this road it's always the vehicles travelling east/west that give way, makes sense, I'm always travelling over 80km/h, if you don't give way to me, you'll end up like Swissy.

With all this talk about these white lines and right of way I reckon we'll see a lot more of these crazy, suicidal foreigners on their disability scooters wanting to claim insurance or worse......

Beats the balcony dives.

Take care out there.

Edited April 25 by SAFETY FIRST

Ralf001 · April 25

6 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I just heard on the local radio station that the vehicles travelling east/west have right of way when entering intersections on the railway road.

If you have ever travelled this road it's always the vehicles travelling east/west that give way, makes sense, I'm always travelling over 80km/h, if you don't give way to me, you'll end up like Swissy.

With all this talk about these white lines and right of way I reckon we'll see a lot more of these crazy, suicidal foreigners on their disability scooters wanting to claim insurance or worse......

Beats the balcony dives.

Take care out there.

Outstanding effort !

richard_smith237 · April 25

12 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I just heard on the local radio station that the vehicles travelling east/west have right of way when entering intersections on the railway road.

So... SUV 100% in the wrong then...

But, as you point out: the right of way is contrary to the way everyone drives it which makes the junction and all the junctions along that stretch more dangerous.

Thailand is still wondering why is has the highest road deaths.

The SUV driver is going to get done for dangerous driving then ????

12 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

If you have ever travelled this road it's always the vehicles travelling east/west that give way, makes sense, I'm always travelling over 80km/h, if you don't give way to me, you'll end up like Swissy.

Safety First eh ???..... I really hope you are not blasting through blind junctions like that at 80 kms... You'll be in the news next.... Hope not of course - be careful eh...

That said - I agree with you that IF this is the way 'everyone drives' this road - then the north south roads really should be designated with stop signs and give way signs... (and yes - white lines !!!!)...

The accident rates here is not just about rubbish policing - its also a lot about really cr-appy junctions and road lay outs.

12 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

With all this talk about these white lines and right of way I reckon we'll see a lot more of these crazy, suicidal foreigners on their disability scooters wanting to claim insurance or worse......

Beats the balcony dives....

Already enough suicidal motorcyclists out there anyway.... but you are only looking out for the foreigners on Disability Trikes to confirm your bias ???

12 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Take care out there.

Insanity - idiots driving without looking !!!....

Was driving the other day (middle lane - Petchaburi rd) middle of the day.... Motorcycle to the right travelling at the same speed.

I suddenly hear loud tyre screeching..... saw in my mirror a pickup fish-tailing it... rear sliding around, brakes locked up....

The driver had nearly ridden straight into the motorcyclist next to me.....

Careful out there indeed - especially at junctions as some blast through thinking they have right of way !!!!

Edited April 25 by richard_smith237

richard_smith237 · April 25

On 4/23/2024 at 7:52 PM, Ralf001 said:

The line means nothing without the associated signage... This is common thing in many countries.

Maybe you shoulda looked into this before hanging your hat on a white line !

Hey Champ... maybe the white line did mean something.... Should have looked into that before 'hanging your hat on the wrong thing' & 'diggin up' !!! :cheesy:

13 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I just heard on the local radio station that the vehicles travelling east/west have right of way when entering intersections on the railway road.

cranki · April 25

On 4/23/2024 at 5:27 PM, Excogitator said:

This may already have been said in this thread..

When driving in Thailand, vehicles yield to the right at intersections. This means that if you arrive at an intersection simultaneously with another vehicle, the one coming from your right has the right of way.

This is a general rule, unless signs and markings tell you otherwise.

You can, however, and as we all know, not count on other drivers to actually follow this rule.

This is incorrect.....vehicles GIVE WAY to the LEFT at intersections.....that is the correct rule....

richard_smith237 · April 25

9 minutes ago, cranki said:

On 4/23/2024 at 4:27 PM, Excogitator said:

This may already have been said in this thread..

When driving in Thailand, vehicles yield to the right at intersections. This means that if you arrive at an intersection simultaneously with another vehicle, the one coming from your right has the right of way.

This is a general rule, unless signs and markings tell you otherwise.

You can, however, and as we all know, not count on other drivers to actually follow this rule.

Expand

This is incorrect.....vehicles GIVE WAY to the LEFT at intersections.....that is the correct rule....

He [Excogitator] already acknowledged....

This GIVE WAY to the LEFT at intersections stands only when roads are of equal status and there, are no road markings and no other vehicle is on the junction (i.e. they arrived at the junction at the same time).

On 4/23/2024 at 5:15 PM, Excogitator said:

On 4/23/2024 at 4:48 PM, chickenslegs said:

Sorry, the rule is give way to the vehicle on the left (except at a roundabout, when it is give way to the right).

Land Traffic Act 1979, Section 71.

Section 71 (500B)
[If, when entering a junction, there are other vehicles, the driver must let such vehicles go
through first.
If two vehicles enter a junction from different directions at the same time, the vehicle on
the left side has a right of way, except when there's a designation of "principle roadway" in
which case the vehicle on the principle roadway has a right of way.]

Expand

You are indeed right Sir, I stand corrected. Yield to the LEFT is the general rule.

(Seems to be a lot of confusion about this. I was even taught the wrong way here..)

jacko45k · April 25

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

That said - I agree with you that IF this is the way 'everyone drives' this road - then the north south roads really should be designated with stop signs and give way signs... (and yes - white lines !!!!)...

The North South carriageways are hardly labelled to inform out of towners that they are one way either side of the tracks. Further North I am often faced with traffic going the wrong way.....

Excogitator · April 26

8 hours ago, cranki said:

This is incorrect.....vehicles GIVE WAY to the LEFT at intersections.....that is the correct rule....

See my later comments for clarity.

It is indeed yield or give way to the LEFT.

Funny thing is, I was even taught in the wrong way here in Thailand, and I even factchecked with ChatGPT before I posted my original comment, and they also gave the wrong answer/way (yield to the right in Thailand).

No wonder there's so much confusion about it...

SAFETY FIRST · April 26

12 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

So... SUV 100% in the wrong then

You are saying because of the WRONGLY placed white line it is OK for a madman to come shooting out of a side street without looking or slowing, driving in front of an SUV travelling at around 80km/h.

Can you confirm that is what you are saying?

SAFETY FIRST · April 26

12 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thailand is still wondering why is has the highest road deaths

I'm sure a top contributor are these reckless foreigners.

SAFETY FIRST · April 26

12 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Safety First eh ???..... I really hope you are not blasting through blind junctions like that at 80 kms... You'll be in the news next.... Hope not of course - be careful eh...

You've never driven on the road, why are you commenting?

I'll let you know, if I stopped at those wrongly placed white lines I'd be making the news...... It would read stupid Australian stops at white line on busy road causing major traffic pileup, now he is in ICU

SAFETY FIRST · April 26

12 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Careful out there indeed - especially at junctions as some blast through thinking they have right of way !!!!

Please let us all know when you are driving on the roads, we'll all stay indoors .

Don't want to run up your backside when you stop at those stupid white line.

Edited April 26 by SAFETY FIRST

HampiK · April 26

4 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Please let us all know when you are driving on the roads, we'll all stay indoors .

Don't want to run up your backside when you stop at the white line.

This should not happen, as you should always be able to break for something in the way!

I see you go with the flow, even it's wrong. The question is, is this the correct or the wrong behavior?
Doing something wrong, because everyone else is doing it as well (It seems this is the american way of doing so far I know).

SAFETY FIRST · April 26

4 minutes ago, HampiK said:

This should not happen, as you should always be able to break for something in the way!

I see you go with the flow, even it's wrong. The question is, is this the correct or the wrong behavior?
Doing something wrong, because everyone else is doing it as well (It seems this is the american way of doing so far I know).

You do know we are in Thailand don't you? Why are you commenting logically, you are not making sense.

Things often happen in Thailand that should not happen.

Can you explain that?

Edited April 26 by SAFETY FIRST

HampiK · April 26

Just now, SAFETY FIRST said:

You do know we are in Thailand don't you?

Yes I know, but to improve the laws, would be better. They always talk about want do some measures to have less accident.
This would be for me a prime example to improve and do the signals like you told us you think how to drive there.

Then maybe this swiss person would have stopped (maybe).

HampiK · April 26

3 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

You do know we are in Thailand don't you? Why are you commenting logically, you are not making sense.

Things often happen in Thailand that should not happen.

Can you explain that?

I talk about "YOU" want stay home, that you not would drive into "richard_smith...". As I was hopping you still have enough driving skills to be able to stop if someone in front of you make a stop which you wasn't expecting.

SAFETY FIRST · April 26

12 minutes ago, HampiK said:

I talk about "YOU" want stay home, that you not would drive into "richard_smith...". As I was hopping you still have enough driving skills to be able to stop if someone in front of you make a stop which you wasn't expecting.

Picture this...... you are travelling at 80km/h down Sukhumvit road behind richard_smith237, then all of a sudden richard_smith237 stops. Yes, I would stop, but most wouldn't.

If you haven't travelled this road, you really shouldn't be commenting, this road takes a lot of traffic, travelling at speeds around 80km/h, mostly faster. Those stupid white lines should be placed on the side roads, coming off the train tracks.

Edited April 26 by SAFETY FIRST

Woof999 · April 26

1 hour ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

You are saying because of the WRONGLY placed white line it is OK for a madman to come shooting out of a side street without looking or slowing, driving in front of an SUV travelling at around 80km/h.

If you are suggesting that the SUV crossing that junction at 80kph, with at least one other car blocking a full view of other traffic approaching it puts him (or her) fully in the right then I think you're way off.

The trike rider was kind of asking for it, but the SUV driving was also looking to give it. Drive like that across junctions in Thailand that don't have a crystal clear indication of right of way (or even ones that do) and it's only a matter of time before you're one part of a t-bone.

richard_smith237 · April 26

2 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

15 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thailand is still wondering why is has the highest road deaths

I'm sure a top contributor are these reckless foreigners.

Given your comments - you are one of 'these reckless foreigners' !!!...

richard_smith237 · April 26

1 hour ago, Woof999 said:

If you are suggesting that the SUV crossing that junction at 80kph, with at least one other car blocking a full view of other traffic approaching it puts him (or her) fully in the right then I think you're way off.

The trike rider was kind of asking for it, but the SUV driving was also looking to give it. Drive like that across junctions in Thailand that don't have a crystal clear indication of right of way (or even ones that do) and it's only a matter of time before you're one part of a t-bone.

Absolutely agree.... SAFETY FIRST is backing is original conclusion because he knows the area's and thinks its ok to drive through a blind junction at 80kms... because if he doesn't someone will rear-end him.

I get his basic premise - but blasting through junctions like that is craziness, I don't know how any western (UK) trained driver can think this is acceptable unless they've gone completely native.

Of course, we can't drive to UK rules or exactly as we would in the UK as we'd end up in an accident - this is the excuse given by SAFETY FIRST and I agree with him, but not to the degree we go to the extend of adopting the complete recklessness of 'some' Thai drivers as that places us at greater risk.

I'd ask who drive in the same manner as SAFETY FIRST a what happens if its a Bin-lorry or truck driving across the junction from the left ??? - Approaching that junction at 80kmh means there's no chance of stopping...

Ralf001 · April 26

2 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I'll let you know, if I stopped at those wrongly placed white lines I'd be making the news...... It would read stupid Australian stops at white line on busy road causing major traffic pileup, now he is in ICU

there is no signage or lights indicating it a stop line.

and yes, to stop is gunna cause pain, I always follow the car in front through.

richard_smith237 · April 26

2 hours ago, HampiK said:

I see you go with the flow, even it's wrong. The question is, is this the correct or the wrong behavior?
Doing something wrong, because everyone else is doing it as well (It seems this is the american way of doing so far I know).

In some cases adopting the 'local way' is the only way to drive here otherwise we'd not get anywhere.... or we'd place ourselves in greater danger....

... Such things as driving with a degree of assertiveness so that we can 'merge' into traffic because people never give way unless we push in a little etc... But that doesn't mean we should jump lights and not stop at pedestrian crossings just because the locals (or many of them) drive that way.... The same goes for blasting through a junction at 80 kmh... particularly one at which right of way is questionable.

richard_smith237 · April 26

3 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

15 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

So... SUV 100% in the wrong then

You are saying because of the WRONGLY placed white line it is OK for a madman to come shooting out of a side street without looking or slowing, driving in front of an SUV travelling at around 80km/h.

Can you confirm that is what you are saying?

Is the white line wrongly placed ???.... You already highlighted that 'East - West' has right of way... so how are the lines place ~~wrongly~~ incorrectly... the White lines are place in accordance with the rules of that junction.

I agree that the mobility rider rode without consideration for his own safety and was not riding defensively as he should have been doing...

... But blasting through a blind junction at 80 kmh is reckless - whether you are copying the idiots in front of you or not.

It seems you still want to state that the SUV is not at fault, because thats the way everyone else drives - copying everyone else is not a solid defence for driving illegally - I don't copy the car in front when it goes through a red traffic light (as it seems some other idiots might).

13 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

there is no signage or lights indicating it a stop line.

There doesn't need to be - the line itself is sufficient...

13 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

and yes, to stop is gunna cause pain, I always follow the car in front through.

Dangerous to lower your driving standards to the idiot in front... Do you follow them through pedestrian crossings and red lights ?

SAFETY FIRST · April 26

17 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

there is no signage or lights indicating it a stop line.

and yes, to stop is gunna cause pain, I always follow the car in front through.

I agree.

It makes no sense people commenting on this thread who haven't travelled this road.

You and I have, many times.

But people here seem to think that they are still in there home country where things are black and white.

As you mentioned in the past, the white line may be left overs from the past roadworks.

This road is relatively new.

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