Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[n00dle]

5 hours ago, John Drake said:

It was slowly at first, but now more and more people are coming to understand that:

 

Prayuth was better.

tragic but true

[Tonyfarang]

Quote

2 hours ago, connda said:

Next up!  Taxing tax-residents Unrealized Gains.  Let's see just how greedy the pigs really are. 

 

That would get rid of the "Well-heeled Wealthy Foreigners" whom the Thai elites so desperately wish to attract.  I think the concept of taxing wealthy foreigners foreign income is going to be the straw breaking the camel's back.  You earn a few cool million USD a year and live in Thailand?  And Thailand wants to tax your few cool million USD earned overseas based on the Thai tax code?  Goodbye "Well-heeled Wealthy Farang." 

Exactly. The big concern here is shall leave right now? Because it's already Junr 5th; staying 3 weeks more will make tax residence, what if they decide to implement this law as some sites say in 2024? Any ideas and plans please? 

 

[Tonyfarang]

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2 hours ago, connda said:

Next up!  Taxing tax-residents Unrealized Gains.  Let's see just how greedy the pigs really are. 

 

That would get rid of the "Well-heeled Wealthy Foreigners" whom the Thai elites so desperately wish to attract.  I think the concept of taxing wealthy foreigners foreign income is going to be the straw breaking the camel's back.  You earn a few cool million USD a year and live in Thailand?  And Thailand wants to tax your few cool million USD earned overseas based on the Thai tax code?  Goodbye "Well-heeled Wealthy Farang." 

Definetely... every day headache for me... But where to go and when? Go immediatelly? 3 weeks remaining for the 183 days. Are they going to implement it for 2024? I don't think they should, because we need to know if they implement it we need to know earler in order to leave. 

And what about the tax excempted visas? Nothing is clear. What to do ??

 

[ikke1959]

1billion thb..... Where does that come from? Government officials, army people, international CEO?

 

It seems that never eant to pay any tax anywhere, while the most low incomes have to pay more. Double taxing is impossible

[abrise]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

3. The Thai government tax person is claiming going to the worldwide income approach will bring Thailand into compliance with international norms -- which seems to be exactly the opposite to what in fact is reality, where most countries don't do that.....

 

 

Disagree, most countries are doing that. 

[Middle Aged Grouch]

Well why not tax the residents after all,  if they continue to stay on,  despite the new absurd tax rules ?

 

For those who can, time has come to sell one's property and leave Thailand.

[Ben Zioner]

17 minutes ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

 

For those who can, time has come to sell one's property and leave Thailand.

How much will you pay were you go?

[Tonyfarang]

Quote

21 minutes ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Well why not tax the residents after all,  if they continue to stay on,  despite the new absurd tax rules ?

 

For those who can, time has come to sell one's property and leave Thailand.

 

Agree and I am already doing the same starting today. The worry here is are they going to implement this rule in 2024? Or starting 2025 so we can have time prepare everything and go ?  Also, fairly talking, the aliens shoud have the opportunity to choose. So, yes, they can do whatever they like, any taxes they want, but we need to know it in a proper timeframe and say we are in to it, or we just don't want it and go.. Can't be implemented in June 2024 where a few of us are already 170 (jan to today) days in; can't move in 5 days, can't get new residency in 5 days etc. They can implement from 2025 would be fine, so we can know and prepare for other beautiful countries 🙂

[Dmaxdan]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

 

Well, apart from the 7% they pay on every purchase they make.

You know that's not what I mean.

[Metapod]

we need to bring Prayut back. <deleted> this new government.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, beammeup said:

So more confusion and uncertainty about the future. All the tax planning I had for the last bomb shell is out the window. Now need to wait again for clarity.

 

And presumably, more months now of being left in limbo and doubt... and think of all the vast hours and thousands of posts here spent analyzing and debating the prior (and now perhaps discarded) tax changes that were floated... Yeesh!

 

At this point, who knows where they'll end up and what kind of tax plan will ultimately be enacted, if any.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

1billion thb..... Where does that come from? Government officials, army people, international CEO?

 

 

That baht figure, according to the BKK Post, was just in reference to their plans to start taxing major online vendor platforms -- nothing to do with individual residents/taxpaxers.

 

But...I think my answer would be... dartboard.  🙂

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, abrise said:

Disagree, most countries are doing that. 

 

I was previously corrected and acknowledged it so...

 

[BarstoolChang]

8 hours ago, BigBruv said:

 

Instead ask yourself - what benefits do the TH government get from you being here?

 

Likely... NOTHING!   🙂

 

 

A massive stimulation in their local economys. I guarantee you foreigners pay more on average than a thai would. 94 percent of them pay no tax at all.

 

You dont need to sit online and lick the boot of this government, they aren't going to give you preferntial treatment mate.

[Skeptic7]

12 hours ago, beammeup said:

But she says "This principle taxes individuals based on their residency within the country, irrespective of whether the income is sourced domestically or internationally". So I am a little confused. Will this affect individuals or just platform(whatever that is)?

T.I.T. where every little thing is always clear as mud. 

[Kerryd]

READ the WHOLE thing.
TOO many people got to "requiring platforms with an income of 1 billion baht" and decided that didn't apply to them so they STOPPED reading.
LOOK at the last 2 paragraphs:

Quote

 

"Previously, the department revised the criteria for tax residency, mandating that individuals residing in Thailand for at least 180 days per year and earning foreign income must pay personal income tax if that income is brought into the country within the same year it was earned.

 

However, this rule will be revised again, effective from 2024, requiring tax payment on foreign income regardless of when it is brought into the country, reported Bangkok Post."

 

So what they are saying is they are planning on taxing YOU on ANY income you have made ANYWHERE in the world - even if you DON'T send ANY of it to Thailand.

So YOU are going to be treated just like any other Thai citizen - except you can't buy land, vote, get a passport (ect ect). 

Essentially "taxation without representation" which I suspect is not a consideration in Thai law.

Though I wonder how they will verify that you have made any money anywhere in the world if you don't tell them about it ? I seriously doubt too many gov'ts in the world are going to divulge that information about their own citizens.

[zakalwe]

12 hours ago, bg53 said:

If Thailand taxes on a worldwide basis, there will be a mass exodus of expats.

tourists >>> immigrants

[sandrew33]

14 hours ago, johng said:

That seems totally unworkable  crazy and unjust !

It’s pretty standard for most tax regimes that you pay tax in your country of tax residence on your total worldwide income. 

[Alotoftravel]

12 hours ago, timendres said:

An article on Bangkok Post clearly shows that they are discussing taxing worldwide income.

Currently, only two countries on the planet do this. The USA and Eritrea.

This is a desperate act by the Thai government, and demonstrates that things are not good.

the USA has no requirement of the 180 days stay unlike Thailand . For Americans , You get taxed wherever you reside. 

[zakalwe]

3 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

READ the WHOLE thing.
TOO many people got to "requiring platforms with an income of 1 billion baht" and decided that didn't apply to them so they STOPPED reading.
LOOK at the last 2 paragraphs:

So what they are saying is they are planning on taxing YOU on ANY income you have made ANYWHERE in the world - even if you DON'T send ANY of it to Thailand.

So YOU are going to be treated just like any other Thai citizen - except you can't buy land, vote, get a passport (ect ect). 

Essentially "taxation without representation" which I suspect is not a consideration in Thai law.

Though I wonder how they will verify that you have made any money anywhere in the world if you don't tell them about it ? I seriously doubt too many gov'ts in the world are going to divulge that information about their own citizens.

I wonder if Thailand would introduce an alternative minimum tax if too many people report zero income.

[sandrew33]

12 hours ago, timendres said:

An article on Bangkok Post clearly shows that they are discussing taxing worldwide income.

Currently, only two countries on the planet do this. The USA and Eritrea.

This is a desperate act by the Thai government, and demonstrates that things are not good.

This is wildly incorrect. 
 

You seem to be confusing determining tax residency based on nationality/citizenship v the broader concept of taxing people on worldwide income based on tax residency. 
 

Most developed countries have some form of worldwide income approach to taxing those tax resident in the country. This is Thailand simply adopting that approach. If you are earning the income in a country that has a double tax agreement with Thailand than that will still have application. The DTA will determine what income is taxed where and where it is subject to tax in both countries will allow a credit for the tax already paid outside Thailand. 
 

The practical question is the resources available to the Thai revenue authority to manage this and the will to do so at the bottom end of the expat population. 
 

Logic though will dictate that anyone here more than 180 days a year is likely to be under greater pressure to at least register for a tax number and file an annual return presuming this all becomes law. 

[Owiee]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

 

The Revenue Department of Thailand will amend a law to tax individuals with foreign income, even if that income is not brought into Thailand.

 

Director-General of the Revenue Department, Kulaya Tantitemit stated that the current tax law mandates individuals residing in Thailand for over 180 days per year to pay taxes on foreign income if it is brought into the country.

 

This income is currently subject to personal income tax payments to the department. The department is now working to amend the law based on the principle of worldwide income.

 

This principle taxes individuals based on their residency within the country, irrespective of whether the income is sourced domestically or internationally.

 

Kulaya mentioned plans to expand the tax base by requiring platforms with an income of 1 billion baht or more to report their sources of income.

 

 

She added that the department will use this information to verify their tax compliance.

 

Previously, the department revised the criteria for tax residency, mandating that individuals residing in Thailand for at least 180 days per year and earning foreign income must pay personal income tax if that income is brought into the country within the same year it was earned.

 

However, this rule will be revised again, effective from 2024, requiring tax payment on foreign income regardless of when it is brought into the country, reported Bangkok Post.

 

By Ryan Turner

Image courtesy of Thailand Elite Visas

 

Source: The Thaiger 2024-06-05

 

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I would be interested to know how this is going to be policed, as it seemed unworkable. 

[AhFarangJa]

So, assuming in the future they get all their ducks in a row, and start taxing all our incomes, what do we get out of it? Free healthcare, access to pensions, scrapping of dual pricing? 

Rhetorical question, as we are dirty Farangs we get nothing.

[findlay13]

14 hours ago, johng said:

That seems totally unworkable  crazy and unjust !

 Unjust? Strange word to use .T.I.T.

[Shocked farang]

13 hours ago, beammeup said:

But she says "This principle taxes individuals based on their residency within the country, irrespective of whether the income is sourced domestically or internationally". So I am a little confused. Will this affect individuals or just platform(whatever that is)?

Thailand is trying to imitate the US that taxes its tax residents globally, the only countries that do that are the US and Eritrea. Only the US actually has the means to enforce it. Another gimmick from this government to waste people's time and attention! 

[bradiston]

12 hours ago, AreYouGerman said:

Hahahahaha. The Phillippines look better every day.

 

And the best part is, even if you are covered by a Double Taxation Agreement (meaning you got fleeced already in your passport country or wherever your money is taxed already) you have to file for taxes every year which will cost 10,000 - 20,000 THB done by an accountant.

 

Yes, Philippines, especially if you're a Brit with a frozen pension. 179 days in Thailand, 186 in Philippines. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

[sandrew33]

6 minutes ago, Shocked farang said:

Thailand is trying to imitate the US that taxes its tax residents globally, the only countries that do that are the US and Eritrea. Only the US actually has the means to enforce it. Another gimmick from this government to waste people's time and attention! 

Per my post about 3 posts before this, this assertion is complete <deleted>. 
 

Most developed countries tax those who are tax resident on their global income (subject to double tax agreements). 
 

You are confusing taxing people based on their citizenship v taxing them based on tax residency. Two entirely different concepts. 

[NemoH]

14 hours ago, John Drake said:

It was slowly at first, but now more and more people are coming to understand that:

 

Prayuth was better.

Thaksin is all about greed n more money n more tax whether personal or tourist tax🤣🤣.  Pita is all about building a new world order🤣🤣🤣. Prayuth was all about remaining status quo 🤣🤣. So which of the devil do u like best ??  

[scorecard]

13 hours ago, beammeup said:

But she says "This principle taxes individuals based on their residency within the country, irrespective of whether the income is sourced domestically or internationally". So I am a little confused. Will this affect individuals or just platform(whatever that is)?

 

And what is the definition of 'income' and 'platform'?

 

The Australian Dept., of Veterans Affairs pays a permanent 4 weekly compensation payment to Aussie war veterans who have disabilities officially recognised as resulting from war service.

 

The DVA used to call this a disability pension but about 3 years back they dropped the word pension and renamed this payment a permanent disabilities compensation payment.

 

Change in name was rumoured at that time to be because the DVA (Oz gov't) didn't want this money seen as income - it's a compensation payment. (Not sure how true this is.)

 

Where will this payment sit in the new Thai Revenue Department rules? 

[shdmn]

13 hours ago, timendres said:

An article on Bangkok Post clearly shows that they are discussing taxing worldwide income.

Currently, only two countries on the planet do this. The USA and Eritrea.

This is a desperate act by the Thai government, and demonstrates that things are not good.

With a reciprocal tax treaty this would be a nothingburger for expats if it ever happened, which is far from certain.