60-day visa exemptions are now unlimited at land borders

[Rob Browder]

5 hours ago, BobDobbs said:

My opinion - it's wholy wrong especially given how popular Thailand is as a vacation and holiday country that it doesn't spell out clearly the amount of time that individuals can spend in the country and under what terms. It is clearly to their advantage not to do so.

If Thailand wanted to create a limit, they could.  The rule/law is, there is no limit on "time in country as a tourist."  There is no "staying in Thailand too much/long" reason in the law, allowing Immigration to deny entry.  That is why Immigration will stamp "doesn't have money" in victim's passports - though the victim DID have the money to show.   Immigration will SAY there is some limit (they make up), in order to funnel people into "agent assisted entry," which lines their pockets - but never put a stamp in a passport which would expose their criminal behavior (denying entry on false-premises). 

 

Each of these "denied entry for being in Thailand too much" cases costs the country billions of Baht in lost revenue over time, due to the bad-press across social-media - expats warning others NOT to go to Thailand - discouraging those who would otherwise come here to SPEND THEIR MONEY.   They don't care.  They only care about their own selfish grifing.  THEY are the Grifters - not those coming here, whose spending is all upside in terms of VAT taxes, Thai-Jobs, Thai-Businesses, etc.

[wmlc]

3 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

If Thailand wanted to create a limit, they could.  The rule/law is, there is no limit on "time in country as a tourist."  There is no "staying in Thailand too much/long" reason in the law, allowing Immigration to deny entry.  That is why Immigration will stamp "doesn't have money" in victim's passports - though the victim DID have the money to show.   Immigration will SAY there is some limit (they make up), in order to funnel people into "agent assisted entry," which lines their pockets - but never put a stamp in a passport which would expose their criminal behavior (denying entry on false-premises). 

 

Each of these "denied entry for being in Thailand too much" cases costs the country billions of Baht in lost revenue over time, due to the bad-press across social-media - expats warning others NOT to go to Thailand - discouraging those who would otherwise come here to SPEND THEIR MONEY.   They don't care.  They only care about their own selfish grifing.  THEY are the Grifters - not those coming here, whose spending is all upside in terms of VAT taxes, Thai-Jobs, Thai-Businesses, etc.

According to Dr Jack, this never happens. However, in reality, people get refused entry everyday. 

[Bvor]

3 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

If Thailand wanted to create a limit, they could.  The rule/law is, there is no limit on "time in country as a tourist."  There is no "staying in Thailand too much/long"

 I agree with your sentiments, however, It is generally acknowledged that immigration rules/laws are subject to IO discretion............ so in practice "various limits" can and do get applied rightly or wrongly from time to time. 

[Rob Browder]

30 minutes ago, Bvor said:

 I agree with your sentiments, however, It is generally acknowledged that immigration rules/laws are subject to IO discretion............ so in practice "various limits" can and do get applied rightly or wrongly from time to time. 

Unlike in many countries, in Thailand, IOs have only a limited set of reasons they can deny entry - those restrictions intended to prevent corruption - "pay me to let you in" - which has long been a problem in poorer nation's immigration systems.  "Discretion" would only apply to whether the IO thought you were not eligible to enter, based on those legal reasons.

They CAN ask to "see the money," and deny for that legally, if someone doesn't have it.  But, that tactic quit working, because folks started carrying the cash to show (20K Baht with a tourist-visa).  At that point, all rules went out the window.

 

It remains to be seen if Immigration begin undermining these new MFA/TAT schemes (60-day exemptions, DTV) to increase revenue into Thailand, as they did with Tourist-Visas and even the METV, before.   I hope some sort of back-room deal was made, to prevent this - possibly explaining the delay in rolling them out - and that any deal does not undermine folks on other permitted stays.

[Bvor]

4 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

"Discretion" would only apply to whether the IO thought you were not eligible to enter, based on those legal reasons.

IO more than likely would disagree.  

 

4 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

 

It remains to be seen if Immigration begin undermining these new MFA/TAT schemes (60-day exemptions, DTV) to increase revenue into Thailand

Yes I been thinking same. Video interviews with MFA guy indicate increased tourism revenue is their goal re 60 day VE and DTV schemes.

[Rob Browder]

1 minute ago, Bvor said:

IO more than likely would disagree.  

Yes, in the same way that an armed robber would disagree you don't have to hand over your wallet.  You aren't going to win against with them, given there is no system of accountability when they violate the rules. 

 

But, like I said above - once one realizes this is the type of system it is at its core - but also knowing there is also a pretense of "officialdom" they must maintain, given what they have captured is an "official" govt-agency - then you can operate within certain parameters. 

 

Unfortunately, it is a moving target, so one can never be completely comfortable - like when Big-Joke put up the "no tips" signs, then got embassy-letters canceled and changed the retirement money-rules, to recover that lost revenue (and more) by increasing the number of agent-assisted extensions.  "Stop Corruption" and "Bad Guys Out" - LOL!!!

[Liquorice]

47 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

Unlike in many countries, in Thailand, IOs have only a limited set of reasons they can deny entry - those restrictions intended to prevent corruption - "pay me to let you in" - which has long been a problem in poorer nation's immigration systems.  "Discretion" would only apply to whether the IO thought you were not eligible to enter, based on those legal reasons.

Exploiting VE entries is not listed in the reasons, but if they suspect for any reason your purpose is not for tourism, they have the right to decline.

[Bvor]

14 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

but if they suspect for any reason your purpose is not for tourism, they have the right to decline.

In video interview MFA guy highlighted that the 60 day "unlimited" VE can be for purposes other than tourism eg visiting relatives. 

[Liquorice]

1 minute ago, Bvor said:

In video interview MFA guy highlighted that the 60 day "unlimited" VE can be for purposes other than tourism eg visiting relatives. 

As long as you have evidence of the purpose of your visit, you should be good to go.

However, there will be those with many other purposes in mind

As I've stated before, I don't read 'unlimited' as 'back to back' entries as some are.

 

The average tourist will only stay 2/3 weeks, perhaps twice a year.

[transam]

15 minutes ago, Bvor said:

In video interview MFA guy highlighted that the 60 day "unlimited" VE can be for purposes other than tourism eg visiting relatives. 

That sounds interesting.....

[Bvor]

31 minutes ago, transam said:

That sounds interesting.....

Yeah, I don't have any sick relatives in LOS so am hoping can do four 60 day tourist VE's per year.  

[transam]

16 hours ago, Bvor said:

Yeah, I don't have any sick relatives in LOS so am hoping can do four 60 day tourist VE's per year.  

I went today, the IO said, no visa this time, I said no, he said I can give you 60 days now with no visa, I said, yes, great isn't it, making things easier for me, he laughed..

 

Oh, they had a girl still handing out TM.6, IO stamped and clipped in my PP...🤗

[Bvor]

34 minutes ago, transam said:

I went today, the IO said, no visa this time, I said no, he said I can give you 60 days now with no visa,

TM 6 a bit odd but what i would like to confirm is how many 60 day tourist VE's can I  do in a calender year ie 2025. will keep an ear close to ground as there are conflicting reports. MFA guy stated "unlimited" which is in line with their increase tourism revenue scheme...........will wait and see - I still have evisa TR60 option if necessary.  

[Joshy]

Did a 3rd border run this year yesterday and got a new 60 day stamp.

[GanDoonToonPet]

FYI for those who are considering long term stays with B2B 60 day exemptions...

 

I arrived back at BKK last Saturday night, after an 8 day stay in Cambodia.

 

Immigration wasn't too busy but entirely staffed by the female of the species. Maybe I made a mistake in walking to the end and joining the shortest queue (3 people) as the person in front of me was knocked back and, as I learnt later, the person in front of them was subject to the same treatment.

 

The I/O shouted at me 'how long you stay Thailand'. Since her English was so poor as not to indicate past or future, I mumbled something about staying with my family.

 

A button was pressed and I was, again rather rudely, told to stand aside. Another lady escorted me to some office cubicles in front of passport control and told me to sit down in the waiting area.

 

When I was called up the lady was very nice and polite. She asked why I didn't have a visa and I explained that I planned to get one (hence the longer stay in Cambodia) but as the 30 day exemption had recently changed to 60 days, I felt it unnecessary; she told me to get a 'visa' next time.

 

I further explained that I was staying with family and showed her my wife's address via the TM30 I luckily had on my phone. She then hand wrote the expiry date on my 'stamp' and escorted me through to the other side.

 

There were no questions asked about funds or onward ticket and nothing else was written in my passport.

 

Relevant history. Worked in China for 6 years, with occasional visits to Thailand, until April 2024. Since then two 30 day stamps + 30 day extensions.

 

British nationality, English ethnicity, dressed like a slob 🙂

 

 

[Chivas]

9 hours ago, Bvor said:

TM 6 a bit odd but what i would like to confirm is how many 60 day tourist VE's can I  do in a calender year ie 2025. will keep an ear close to ground as there are conflicting reports.

 

Just go to the relevant Thai embassy of your own country and it will tell you

For Brits its already been updated on 18/7...the answer is 2 arriving from air or land

[kwilco]

I have heard that after you complete 90day (inc extension) you cannot re-enter Thailand without a visa for 6 months.

[DrJack54]

42 minutes ago, kwilco said:

I have heard that after you complete 90day (inc extension) you cannot re-enter Thailand without a visa for 6 months.

Which bar? 

[Rob Browder]

11 hours ago, GanDoonToonPet said:

she told me to get a 'visa' next time.

... i.e. - Pay the agent who arranges unlimited visa-exempt entries to the BKK Airports without issues, "next time."

[Liquorice]

11 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

... i.e. - Pay the agent who arranges unlimited visa-exempt entries to the BKK Airports without issues, "next time."

Which agent would that be then?

[kwilco]

9 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Which bar? 

 

Video from immigration - waiting for the copy.

 

[Rob Browder]

14 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Which agent would that be then?

Last report, the guy used a contact known to one of the border-run vans.  I would keep calling those, until I found one who had a contact.  In the past, IOs in the airport provided the Line contact directly, but that was a couple years back.

[StayinThailand2much]

On 8/1/2024 at 7:31 AM, BobDobbs said:

In the end it is my belief that no matter what is legal technically is flavor of the day - this may not translate into forever stay in Thailand. Rather, it's a bit of food scrap for the carp.

 

For, at least, the past 27 years, as a Westerner, legally, one could stay in Thailand all year round, using visa-free entries and tourist visas. But then more and more consular offices limited the number of visas one could get, and, increasingly, entry points, esp. some at airports, introduced their own rules. What is "legal" in Thailand, is, at the end of the day, decided by the individual bureaucrat...

[Chivas]

On 8/2/2024 at 11:39 PM, kwilco said:

I have heard that after you complete 90day (inc extension) you cannot re-enter Thailand without a visa for 6 months.

 

Well we are going to see moving forwards during the rest of 2024. Off the record I dont think you're right but I suspect what I have mentioned (and linked in previously) is accurate over 2 x 60 day visa exempt entires (plus extensions) in the same calender year being the limit

 

Time will tell whether the Embassies have updated completely wrongly these last 3 weeks or not.

 

Common sense alone dictates not even Thailand would shoot themselves in the foot and make the SETV completely obsolete and of course all the income from it

 

I suspect a lot of whisky token apologies are inbound 😁 😁

[kwilco]

6 minutes ago, Chivas said:

 

Well we are going to see moving forwards during the rest of 2024. Off the record I dont think you're right but I suspect what I have mentioned (and linked in previously) is accurate over 2 x 60 day visa exempt entires (plus extensions) in the same calender year being the limit

 

Time will tell whether the Embassies have updated completely wrongly these last 3 weeks or not.

 

Common sense alone dictates not even Thailand would shoot themselves in the foot and make the SETV completely obsolete and of course all the income from it

 

I suspect a lot of whisky token apologies are inbound 😁 😁

 

It's not just the SETV, a lot of other visas could also be redundant if unlimited visa runs every 90 days are feasible..

I think it might take a bit longer - someone would have to do more than 2 long trips of over 60 days (+extension) before they were refused.

 

In theory you can now stay for up to 90day as many times as you want.Even the DTV doesn't allow that at intial O and B visas are for 90 ans then need extending.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

It's not just the SETV, a lot of other visas could also be redundant if unlimited visa runs every 90 days are feasible.

Yourself along with so many others have read too much into the word "unlimited".

Better that immigration just stated two visa exempt entries per calendar year Removed.

Making it exactly same as visa exempt via air that has no stated limit.

As usual it's the io discretion re granting entry.

This is not a green light. 

BTW Thai embassies/consulates have nothing to do with the price of fish

[SouthThailand]

25 minutes ago, kwilco said:

unlimited visa runs every 90 days are feasible

I would only consider this as a last option AND only if I would live very close to a border.

You still have to hope that they let you in every 3 months.

Probably not a problem now, but no guaranties (yet) they will let you in after few entries.

A yearly extension of stay is easy to get and ease of mind is priceless compared to above.

 

ST

 

[kwilco]

33 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Yourself along with so many others have read too much into the word "unlimited".

Better that immigration just stated two visa exempt entries per calendar year Removed.

Making it exactly same as visa exempt via air that has no stated limit.

As usual it's the io discretion re granting entry.

This is not a green light. 

BTW Thai embassies/consulates have nothing to do with the price of fish

how would you read "unlimited"?

We are all aware of the various announcements by embassies - some have been tere for years, some are brand new - they are representatives of the Thai government and therefore immigration - but wee are all aware of how inaccurate they can be

 

you post says nothing new - unless you have an opinion on how many entries will be allowed and for how long?

[DrJack54]

8 minutes ago, kwilco said:

you post says nothing new - unless you have an opinion on how many entries will be allowed and for how long?

That would only be my opinion.

Repeat back to back entries via airports with little time out of Thailand will eventually lead to refused entry. 

Visa exempt entry via airports has No Stated Limit. 

That does not equate to "unlimited visa exempt entries" 

 

BTW : you stated this regarding unsubstantiated post previously.

"Video from immigration - waiting for the copy." 

 

Post facts or not at all. Still waiting

[kwilco]

54 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Visa exempt entry via airports has No Stated Limit. 

 

 

so how do you interpret that?