paying taxes in thailand as an american

[BananaBandit]

So, in the event that the Thai authorities start enforcing this stuff, how will they know the amount that we must pay?

 

Will they just tell us to state a number, or will they ask to see the U.S. tax returns?

[EVENKEEL]

46 minutes ago, BananaBandit said:

So, in the event that the Thai authorities start enforcing this stuff, how will they know the amount that we must pay?

 

Will they just tell us to state a number, or will they ask to see the U.S. tax returns?

Don't worry till a tax man knocks on your door. Where's that kicking a dead horse emoji when you need it.

[sometimewoodworker]

9 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

So, in the event that the Thai authorities start enforcing this stuff, how will they know the amount that we must pay?

 

Will they just tell us to state a number, or will they ask to see the U.S. tax returns?

You would have to decide if you have Thai tax to pay.

 

if you decide yes then you must file a tax return and pay tax.

 

if you decide no, then no tax return, no tax to pay. But then you hope that you will not be audited by the TRD (the number of audits is not great) and you have to hope that your choices of assessable income are correct.

• if you were correct, no problem 
• if you were wrong, anywhere from a slap on the wrist to financial penalties and possibly incarceration.

 

[Everyman]

Keep in mind the USA is NOT a member of CRS. Thailand don’t have a clue about your American accounts unless you tell them. 

 

If you are staying current on your U.S. taxes, combine that with the exclusions for dual tax agreements, unless you are remitting huge sums you have basically zero chance of anyone in Thailand getting at you for taxes. 

Edited August 29 by Everyman

[treetops]

On 8/29/2024 at 4:26 AM, Everyman said:

Keep in mind the USA is NOT a member of CRS. Thailand don’t have a clue about your American accounts unless you tell them.

 

They are however a member of the Global Forum on Transparency and Exchange of Information for Tax Purposes which is effectively the same thing the way I read it.

[newnative]

     As an American, all the pension or social security money I am sending over is shielded from Thai taxes by the dual taxation agreement.   I plan to do nothing unless I am absolutely required to do something.   Right now, there is nothing required that I know of, and that includes filing a Thai tax return.

[Presnock]

9 minutes ago, newnative said:

     As an American, all the pension or social security money I am sending over is shielded from Thai taxes by the dual taxation agreement.   I plan to do nothing unless I am absolutely required to do something.   Right now, there is nothing required that I know of, and that includes filing a Thai tax return.

True if your pension is DTA protected but, the Thai govt may know how much you remitted so they might ask you to prove how much is protected by the DTA or where the pension and ss came from.  And again maybe not too as they probably will be buried by those that do have assessable income remitted this year.  Good luck

[RichardColeman]

The minute ONE person goes to court to say I am sending savings from one bank to another the whole thing will fall apart.  Housing industry will certainly crash immediately if when you send 10 million to buy a house 15% is stolen from you.

 

I would fully support Thailand enforcing the issue on people being paid by a company they work for that is registered abroad and has NOT has any form of tax put on the income. Otherwise its a non starter in my opinion.

 

Imagine telling thais that when they transfer money from one thai bank to another they must pay a 15% tax. 

[cjinchiangrai]

21 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

The minute ONE person goes to court to say I am sending savings from one bank to another the whole thing will fall apart.  Housing industry will certainly crash immediately if when you send 10 million to buy a house 15% is stolen from you.

 

I would fully support Thailand enforcing the issue on people being paid by a company they work for that is registered abroad and has NOT has any form of tax put on the income. Otherwise its a non starter in my opinion.

 

Imagine telling thais that when they transfer money from one thai bank to another they must pay a 15% tax. 

As long as we keep in mind that withholding is not taxing. If I get the money back after filing, I am fine with that. I have zero sympathy for those that double shuffle residences to pay no taxes anywhere.

[BB1955]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

     As an American, all the pension or social security money I am sending over is shielded from Thai taxes by the dual taxation agreement.   I plan to do nothing unless I am absolutely required to do something.   Right now, there is nothing required that I know of, and that includes filing a Thai tax return.

Thats the same thing Im doing .... Nothing ...

[norbra]

First off you must obtain a Taxation Identifier Number for personal income from you local Revenue Dept.

If you have zero income from employment in Thailand the RD are likely to reject your application.

You cannot submit a tax return without a TIN.

My application was denied for the above reason,not needed was the officers advice.

 

[redwood1]

9 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

As long as we keep in mind that withholding is not taxing. If I get the money back after filing, I am fine with that. I have zero sympathy for those that double shuffle residences to pay no taxes anywhere.

 

I have no sympathy for anyone for anyone whos dumb enough to not know that the very well off in any country consider it below them to pay taxes like the little people do.......Taxes are for the middle class and poor.....Not the rich.... 

[JustinCredible]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

     As an American, all the pension or social security money I am sending over is shielded from Thai taxes by the dual taxation agreement.   I plan to do nothing unless I am absolutely required to do something.   Right now, there is nothing required that I know of, and that includes filing a Thai tax return.

 

I was told by the Revenue Department, just last week, that if you pay tax on the money you bring into Thailand, by Law, you will still be required to submit a Tax Return, together with a Certificate from your home country confirming that you have already paid the Tax.  

When I asked how they would know about money coming into Thailand they said that you would also need to submit a 12 month Thai Bank statement. 

They went on to say that there WILL be additional checks om ALL foreigners. They are currently in discussions with both Thai Banks and Immigration.

 

The above is NOT scaremongering, it is a genuine report of my conversations with the Revenue Office.

[jwest10]

18 minutes ago, JustinCredible said:

 

I was told by the Revenue Department, just last week, that if you pay tax on the money you bring into Thailand, by Law, you will still be required to submit a Tax Return, together with a Certificate from your home country confirming that you have already paid the Tax.  

When I asked how they would know about money coming into Thailand they said that you would also need to submit a 12 month Thai Bank statement. 

They went on to say that there WILL be additional checks om ALL foreigners. They are currently in discussions with both Thai Banks and Immigration.

 

The above is NOT scaremongering, it is a genuine report of my conversations with the Revenue Office.

Totally diofferent what they have told me and several times!!! And not American who seem to get all the breaks!!!

Edited August 31 by jwest10

[redwood1]

On 8/31/2024 at 1:16 PM, JustinCredible said:

 

I was told by the Revenue Department, just last week, that if you pay tax on the money you bring into Thailand, by Law, you will still be required to submit a Tax Return, together with a Certificate from your home country confirming that you have already paid the Tax.  

When I asked how they would know about money coming into Thailand they said that you would also need to submit a 12 month Thai Bank statement. 

They went on to say that there WILL be additional checks om ALL foreigners. They are currently in discussions with both Thai Banks and Immigration.

 

The above is NOT scaremongering, it is a genuine report of my conversations with the Revenue Office.

 

This has to be the most bazaar thing I have seen in my entire life here.....

 

Like who is a Foreigner?

 

Are the Chinese, Japanese , Korean, Russian, Indian expats Foreigners?

 

I guess not, because they dont seem to give a rats azz about any of this tax nonsense......Folks no one but western expats are going to lift a finger to produce document forms tax records bla bla .....

 

But for some strange reason There seem to be loads of retired western farang practically beating down the door at the tax office and demanding that they be given a tax number and insisting come hell or high water they be allowed to pay taxes...

 

The whole thing is beyond strange.......lol

 

The fact that almost no Thais pay taxes. does not bother these desperate to pay taxes expats at all.......

 

 

[CMBob]

18 minutes ago, JustinCredible said:

 

I was told by the Revenue Department, just last week, that if you pay tax on the money you bring into Thailand, by Law, you will still be required to submit a Tax Return, together with a Certificate from your home country confirming that you have already paid the Tax.  

......The above is NOT scaremongering, it is a genuine report of my conversations with the Revenue Office.

I don't question that somebody at the RD may have told you that (or that's what you understood they were saying). however, let's use our brains to understand how this will work per what you say you were told (and I'll use 2024 tax year as an example and presume you're a US citizen).

(1)  The Thai tax return would be due to be filed by March 31, 2025.

(2)  The US tax return for an expat isn't due to be filed until June 15th, 2025 (although one has the right to file early, let's say by April 15th, 2025).

(3)  If you're real lucky, obtaining a tax clearance certificate (a/k/a Tax Compliance Report) from the IRS would take 6-12 months after you've filed and paid taxes involving your 2024 return.

(4)  It'll be just a wee bit difficult (read: impossible) to have an IRS tax clearance certificate available when you file your Thai tax return.

 

[bkk6060]

37 minutes ago, JustinCredible said:

They are currently in discussions with both Thai Banks and Immigration.

Huh.  I personally know some high ranking Immigration folks and they have absolutely no information about any of it.  Their response is the taxes are for resident Thais that have businesses or income outside the country and are not paying taxes here.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, JustinCredible said:

 

I was told by the Revenue Department, just last week, that if you pay tax on the money you bring into Thailand, by Law, you will still be required to submit a Tax Return, together with a Certificate from your home country confirming that you have already paid the Tax.  

When I asked how they would know about money coming into Thailand they said that you would also need to submit a 12 month Thai Bank statement. 

They went on to say that there WILL be additional checks om ALL foreigners. They are currently in discussions with both Thai Banks and Immigration.

 

The above is NOT scaremongering, it is a genuine report of my conversations with the Revenue Office.

'...currently in discussions...'  So, nothing nailed down yet, if ever.  Thanks for the info, though.

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, JustinCredible said:

 

I was told by the Revenue Department, just last week, that if you pay tax on the money you bring into Thailand, by Law, you will still be required to submit a Tax Return, together with a Certificate from your home country confirming that you have already paid the Tax.  

When I asked how they would know about money coming into Thailand they said that you would also need to submit a 12 month Thai Bank statement. 

They went on to say that there WILL be additional checks om ALL foreigners. They are currently in discussions with both Thai Banks and Immigration.

 

The above is NOT scaremongering, it is a genuine report of my conversations with the Revenue Office.

A certificate issued by the US government that you already paid the tax? Think the answer from the US is the same as not validating a U.S. citizens income for Thai Immigration purposes (I think one of the four countries no longer issuing those embassy certificates.

[placnx]

1 hour ago, CMBob said:

I don't question that somebody at the RD may have told you that (or that's what you understood they were saying). however, let's use our brains to understand how this will work per what you say you were told (and I'll use 2024 tax year as an example and presume you're a US citizen).

(1)  The Thai tax return would be due to be filed by March 31, 2025.

(2)  The US tax return for an expat isn't due to be filed until June 15th, 2025 (although one has the right to file early, let's say by April 15th, 2025).

(3)  If you're real lucky, obtaining a tax clearance certificate (a/k/a Tax Compliance Report) from the IRS would take 6-12 months after you've filed and paid taxes involving your 2024 return.

(4)  It'll be just a wee bit difficult (read: impossible) to have an IRS tax clearance certificate available when you file your Thai tax return.

 

Last year I filed US taxes in mid-February so that i could use the DTA to pay no taxes on the return I filed in Thaiiand on 31 March. Since then there has been no inquiry from the Thai RD requesting a transcript issued by the IRS (US tax department).

[Unamerican]

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

when you send 10 million to buy a house 15% is stolen from you.

Why would that be only 15% ? 

[Chivas]

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

The minute ONE person goes to court to say I am sending savings from one bank to another the whole thing will fall apart.  Housing industry will certainly crash immediately if when you send 10 million to buy a house 15% is stolen from you.

 

I would fully support Thailand enforcing the issue on people being paid by a company they work for that is registered abroad and has NOT has any form of tax put on the income. Otherwise its a non starter in my opinion.

 

Imagine telling thais that when they transfer money from one thai bank to another they must pay a 15% tax. 

 

Indeed......whilst the legislation has been around for decades albeit not enforced tells its own story

Full of loopholes

[flexomike]

16 minutes ago, placnx said:

Last year I filed US taxes in mid-February so that i could use the DTA to pay no taxes on the return I filed in Thaiiand on 31 March. Since then there has been no inquiry from the Thai RD requesting a transcript issued by the IRS (US tax department).

Can you explain how the DTA was claimed on your return. Are you also working in Thailand where you are required to pay taxes. My money transfers this year were entirely from direct social security deposits to my Bangkok Bank account. Really hope they come up with a statement that they will not be taxing US Social Security deposits.

[chiang mai]

On 8/31/2024 at 1:35 PM, redwood1 said:

 

This has to be the most bazaar thing I have seen in my entire life here.....

 

Like who is a Foreigner?

 

Are the Chinese, Japs, Korean, Russian, Indian expats Foreigners?

 

I guess not, because they dont seem to give a rats azz about any of this tax nonsense......Folks no one but western expats are going to lift a finger to produce document forms tax records bla bla .....

 

But for some strange reason There seem to be loads of retired western farang practically beating down the door at the tax office and demanding that they be given a tax number and insisting come hell or high water they be allowed to pay taxes...

 

The whole thing is beyond strange.......lol

 

The fact that almost no Thais pay taxes. does not bother these desperate to pay taxes expats at all.......

 

 

"This has to be the most bazaar thing I have seen in my entire life here.....

Like who is a Foreigner?

Are the Chinese, Japanese , Korean, Russian, Indian expats Foreigners?"

 

Wow, seriously!

 

"I guess not, because they dont seem to give a rats azz about any of this tax nonsense......"

 

And you know this how?

[CMBob]

31 minutes ago, placnx said:

Last year I filed US taxes in mid-February so that i could use the DTA to pay no taxes on the return I filed in Thaiiand on 31 March. Since then there has been no inquiry from the Thai RD requesting a transcript issued by the IRS (US tax department).

Understand you're saying that nobody at RD requested a US tax clearance certificate from you when you filed a Thai tax return in February of this year (2024); however, given the alleged new rules about remitted income don't apply to income remitted prior to 1/1/24, I'm a bit puzzled as to why you bothered to file a Thai tax return (unless you have other income in Thailand or, perhaps, you were seeking return of withheld tax relating to bank funds).

[khunPer]

On 8/28/2024 at 5:00 PM, BananaBandit said:

So, in the event that the Thai authorities start enforcing this stuff, how will they know the amount that we must pay?

 

Will they just tell us to state a number, or will they ask to see the U.S. tax returns?

For a start, read the Double Taxation Agreement between US and Thailand. Income already taxed in US will not be double taxed; i.e., you'll often pay the highest tax rate, and if that is the one in US you will not also be taxed in Thailand.

 

Income not taxed abroad and transferred to Thailand from 1st January 2024 will be income taxed in Thailand; savings proven to be from before 1st January are free from income tax.

 

We are still lacking detail about how this shall be enforced in practise; so, keep good record of your transfer transactions.

[KhunLA]

@BananaBandit, instead of asking a bunch of strangers on a forum, may be some Yanks, or not, you might want to actually read the TAX LAW & TH / USA DTA (Dual Tax Agreement).

 

Both have been posted and or links to, more than a couple times on this forum.

 

Nobody here knows your status, income you'll be remitting, or tax bracket any of that taxable income may fall under, IF ANY.

[Presnock]

On 8/28/2024 at 10:00 PM, BananaBandit said:

So, in the event that the Thai authorities start enforcing this stuff, how will they know the amount that we must pay?

 

Will they just tell us to state a number, or will they ask to see the U.S. tax returns?

The way I have heard it, ifone does have assessable income remitted here or earned here and follows the tax laws here, then one must get a Thai tax ID.  I guess the tax forms once they are updated later this year, will be available on line and then one can see if they understand the forms or will take it to an agency dealing with the farang tax payers.  YOU supposedly will be the one that determines how much you will be required to pay - or the agency will advise you plus their fees.  Good luck!  Also you should be aware of any details in a Double Taxation Agreement if your country has one will Thailand.  

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

A certificate issued by the US government that you already paid the tax? Think the answer from the US is the same as not validating a U.S. citizens income for Thai Immigration purposes (I think one of the four countries no longer issuing those embassy certificates.

Yeah AS soon as I got the 1099R (w2 equivalent of earnings and taxes paid and health insurance paid for the previous year (required by law to provide to taxpayer by end of January and normally the govt office provides it around 20 January - I filed immediately and IRS accepted the forms by the end of January and I had a refund check by 7 February.  But my only income is a Govt pension so I have no assessable income to file in thailand IAW the DTA.  But, I can only imagine that unless they get a bunch of extra funds that the Thai govt via the Revenue Department will be looking at some means to force the expats to begin getting a TIN and then filing but a negative tax owed - perhaps when the new tax forms come out reportedly in Nov or Dec, it will indicate non-assessable income (govt pension, ss for US) or exemption via the LTR - we will hopefully see - otherwise I don't plan to get a TIN nor file any tax forms unless the current laws are changed.  Best of luck to all.

[gamb00ler]

4 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

The minute ONE person goes to court to say I am sending savings from one bank to another the whole thing will fall apart.  Housing industry will certainly crash immediately if when you send 10 million to buy a house 15% is stolen from you.

 

I would fully support Thailand enforcing the issue on people being paid by a company they work for that is registered abroad and has NOT has any form of tax put on the income. Otherwise its a non starter in my opinion.

 

Imagine telling thais that when they transfer money from one thai bank to another they must pay a 15% tax. 

It seems clear that you haven't really been paying much attention to the posters in these tax threads that have significant experience in tax matters.

 

I can say that your post seems to rely only upon opinion from outraged but misinformed thread participants.

 

I'm willing to wager that unless the TRD is taken over by PCP addicts, the things you've complained about won't be happening.

Edited August 31 by gamb00ler