After I saw doc about plastic problem in Bali I change plans to go there. It's the worse.

If you love the place there's meaningful work to do. Many go to help:

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=8488350824ac1eef&q=plaSTIC+BOTTLES+IN+BALI&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0Aa4sjWe7Rqy32pFwRj0UkWd8nbOJfsBGGB5IQQO6L3J_lEoONhtS-eeDJfC7ZAuus3myAzFOKUSceVcMExslLZu36vAQ_w3heVOCKpTvM7tq2DyV3DW1ElPioO3VfzLmbctLRd89I5YUc5qDXe_JwL51_CMEbpBM8Tvw4rpvsoOTmvbKpfq-_uFEt_AqI40_lIKh1f&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjTmtHHtKmIAxW8IBAIHfB3NTkQtKgLegQIDxAB&biw=1280&bih=587&dpr=1.5

 

 

On 9/3/2024 at 2:39 PM, StandardIssue said:

I've been living on and off in Thailand for 12 years. This year is looking to be the last for me. With the over tourism, rising cost of living, crowded streets and traffic and immigration policies tougher to track than picking a winning lottery number where to now?

 

Expats fed up with Thailand where are you planning to live next?

Most cities are tourist free

Costs are about the same as 10 years ago

Streets the same

Traffic same

Airports are better

 

 

On 9/3/2024 at 12:35 PM, spidermike007 said:

America is falling apart, as prices skyrocket. The quality of life back there is falling off a cliff. We thought we wanted to leave Thailand, until we spent two months in the US,

 

What area in the US  did you spend time ?   I am wondering what you observed with the people in those areas ......... like your family and friends and "ordinary"  citizens .

Some reports of crime and attitudes toward the middle classes are mind=boggling.

Just exactly what ( in your opinion)  is going on there ?  

What's your class?
If you’re in the upper class, you’re sitting pretty. The top 10% of earners have an average net worth of $2.65 million. Even if you’re squeaking into the upper class (the 80-90% range), you’re looking at about $793,000.

Moving down to the middle class, things get a bit more varied. The upper-middle class folks have an average net worth of around $300,800. Your typical middle-class family comes in at $169,420. And if you’re in the lower-middle class, you’re looking at about $58,550.

Now, for the lower class, the numbers take a sharp dive. The average net worth here is just $16,900. That’s a pretty dramatic contrast to the millions at the top.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I'm very surprised how poor Americans are!

They don't save.... they live on Credit Cards, hand to mouth. To have many credit cards they think it's THEIR money and real wealth.

One reason to that is Credit companies rate you how well you pay your credit card bills. You can have 1 mil in savings but that never gets added to your wealth rating.

Crazy!

PS. I saw report UK pensions are only 33% of the US ones.

So, the Yankees still are better off.

1 hour ago, rumak said:

 

What area in the US  did you spend time ?   I am wondering what you observed with the people in those areas ......... like your family and friends and "ordinary"  citizens .

Some reports of crime and attitudes toward the middle classes are mind=boggling.

Just exactly what ( in your opinion)  is going on there ?  

I spend a good deal of time in Los Angeles, but I also travel around California, and around the US. There is a general sense of disappointment, disillusionment, and disenfranchisement, and the resultant bitterness that comes from that. Unless somebody owns a home or condo that's paid off, the cost of living has become so outrageous that 70% of the American population just can't afford the cost of living anymore. I estimate there's another 20% that are doing okay and leading decent lives, and then the top 10% are doing very well. But not necessarily fulfilled.

 

There are a lot of broken dreams, and a lot of the hype of America being the greatest just doesn't live up to what people are seeing, feeling, and experiencing on a daily basis. Crime has definitely gone up, homelessness is out of control (those images are in a good area of Los Angeles), the nomad (people who have deliberately chosen not to own or rent due to the associated costs, and instead live in their cars, trucks or motor homes) population is estimated to be as high as 5 million, and leaders like Trump do not help, as their poorly thought out tariffs simply become taxes on an already overburdened American public. Granted crime is worse in some places than in others, California is one of the highest rates of crime due to successive administrations passing very liberal and ignorant policy. My guess is that if somebody tried to rob a CVS in Montana, they would just get clubbed unconscious with a baseball bat, which is what should happen. 

 

 

Thanks Spidermike ...... for a short but good overview ,  which i was hoping for.   You being there and having imo  a realistic discernment of what you witnessed is appreciated.  The media on both sides can choose and pick the click bait they want to

sway the populace with  ( mainstreet media is almost totally owned and controlled by

the left though , and thus their message has much greater volume)

one note :  even those owning homes and wishing to have a few bucks to spend are also getting royally screwed as the inflation madness can inflate their "new value" of their property....... thus bringing a hefty increase in their property tax bill . 

 

as things stand,  and are headed more each day.......... i am thankful to have my little oasis here in the LOS .   ( land of survivors  🙂

The "elite" here, though,  are well in line with the global agenda .  They know who holds the upper hand and navigate the narrative in a way which keeps them on top.    

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I spend a good deal of time in Los Angeles, but I also travel around California, and around the US. There is a general sense of disappointment, disillusionment, and disenfranchisement, and the resultant bitterness that comes from that. Unless somebody owns a home or condo that's paid off, the cost of living has become so outrageous that 70% of the American population just can't afford the cost of living anymore. I estimate there's another 20% that are doing okay and leading decent lives, and then the top 10% are doing very well. But not necessarily fulfilled.

 

There are a lot of broken dreams, and a lot of the hype of America being the greatest just doesn't live up to what people are seeing, feeling, and experiencing on a daily basis. Crime has definitely gone up, homelessness is out of control (those images are in a good area of Los Angeles), the nomad (people who have deliberately chosen not to own or rent due to the associated costs, and instead live in their cars, trucks or motor homes) population is estimated to be as high as 5 million, and leaders like Trump do not help, as their poorly thought out tariffs simply become taxes on an already overburdened American public. Granted crime is worse in some places than in others, California is one of the highest rates of crime due to successive administrations passing very liberal and ignorant policy. My guess is that if somebody tried to rob a CVS in Montana, they would just get clubbed unconscious with a baseball bat, which is what should happen. 

 

 

Democrat run.

6 hours ago, rumak said:

 

What area in the US  did you spend time ?   I am wondering what you observed with the people in those areas ......... like your family and friends and "ordinary"  citizens .

Some reports of crime and attitudes toward the middle classes are mind=boggling.

Just exactly what ( in your opinion)  is going on there ?  

 

Some parts of the US never fully recovered from the 2008 recession.  The 2008 recession was devastating to middle and rural America. The cherry on top was the COVID shutdowns, followed by 20.8% inflation over three years.    I live in Northern Virginia, which grew exponentially during the dot com boom, was fueled by the growth of government after 9/11, and is recession-proof. The people in the DC metro are blind to the reality of the rest of the country.  Where do you think most national political figures spend most of their time?

3 hours ago, TedG said:

 

Some parts of the US never fully recovered from the 2008 recession.  The 2008 recession was devastating to middle and rural America. The cherry on top was the COVID shutdowns, followed by 20.8% inflation over three years.    I live in Northern Virginia, which grew exponentially during the dot com boom, was fueled by the growth of government after 9/11, and is recession-proof. The people in the DC metro are blind to the reality of the rest of the country.  Where do you think most national political figures spend most of their time?

 

"the growth of the government" .............. that just about says it all !     It's all one big club, and we ain't in it  

 

On 9/3/2024 at 11:39 AM, StandardIssue said:

I've been living on and off in Thailand for 12 years. This year is looking to be the last for me. With the over tourism, rising cost of living, crowded streets and traffic and immigration policies tougher to track than picking a winning lottery number where to now?

 

Expats fed up with Thailand where are you planning to live next?

I am just staying here, as you are leaving, that will be the only sane choice.

The title of this thread should be changed to wherever it is OP lives.  Lots of places in Thailand still unspoiled by over-tourism.   I want to keep it that way so I won't be naming them here.

7 hours ago, maesariang said:

Democrat run.

So "we" screwed up one, California, but can't compete.

Republicans have 10-1 lead "who's poorest":

 

"The poorest states, based on per capita income, are, from first to last:

Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, West Virginia, Louisiana, Montana, South Carolina, Kentucky, Alabama, and North Carolina."

 

 

I'm getting that same feeling. I feel like I just don't belong here anymore (just a personal thing, not Thailand's fault).

 

I have been getting strong inclinations to go back to Mexico. I can get residency there and it's close to the Usa where I'm from.

 

What happens if I get much older and something happens in Thailand with the visa, some stupid reporting issue, etc. It just does not feel like a stable option for older people.

On 9/3/2024 at 4:48 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Imagine you will find paradise somewhere. No traffic, no tourists, just paradise.

Loads of such places in LOS. My wife's village was one such. I only wanted to leave because of her ratbag nephew.

Even Lamphun was like that, and only 1/2 hour from Chiang Mai.

 

People that claim all of Thailand is "over tourism, rising cost of living, crowded streets and traffic" obviously never been out of a city.

 

The Gulf coast south of Chumpon is as much a paradise as possible to find on the planet, but a bit too far from civilisation for me. Great for a long holiday though.

17 hours ago, GypsyT said:

PS. I saw report UK pensions are only 33% of the US ones.

The amount you get from a UK pension depends on contributions. As I had only 10 years worth I get not enough to live on in the UK. NZ pays a standard rate for everyone, but they take all my UK pension. Even if I had no UK pension I'd get the same amount. It's not even enough to rent a decent house if that is one's only income. One has to grovel to get supplementary housing allowance.

On 9/3/2024 at 11:39 AM, StandardIssue said:

I've been living on and off in Thailand for 12 years. This year is looking to be the last for me.

 

Expats come and go, but typically do love to announce their departures, as if over an airport PA system. In the worst case, they won't leave, just keep repeating the important announcement to the utterly indifferent here. Or if they do finally leave, continue bashing Thailand from afar, as ongoing justification for a very wise decision that seems unable to stand on its own. 

 

And for decades now, we've had such heading for the exits threads as a regular feature of the forum from the disgruntled and disaffected. The paradise of Cambodia has been touted since at least 1997 in the Pattaya Mail long before the forum started. The critical Plan B gets discussed regularly and often. Everybody's packed a go bag.

 

Meanwhile, contrary to all the dire prophecies, Thailand seems to have attracted expats in even greater numbers. WOT???

 

On 9/3/2024 at 11:39 AM, StandardIssue said:

With the over tourism, rising cost of living, crowded streets and traffic and immigration policies tougher to track than picking a winning lottery number where to now?

 

Based solely on your intermittent residences in Bangkok, LOL. Issues nothing new for BKK, though they've somehow escaped your notice until just now. And therefore the entire kingdom of Thailand is played out.🤣 Can you think of what the obvious solution might be?

 

As for Immigration policies, they've become even more liberal. The financial requirements haven't changed in decades. I run off a set of the same documents, change the dates, sign, stop by the bank, and I'm in and out of the IO in about 30 min, once a year. 90-day reporting been in place for years, now online and trivial. No problems.

 

You don't really have anything, just creating excuses for yourself. You don't need any. The need for relief from that puckered sphincter is sufficient.

 

On 9/3/2024 at 11:39 AM, StandardIssue said:

Expats fed up with Thailand where are you planning to live next?

 

Been living happily in LOS for about 29 years now, and I don't see that changing.

 

All the other options for the disaffected and disgruntled are regularly discussed ad nauseam. We've done 'em ALL, Eastern Europe, Central America, South America, SE Asia, many times.

 

The best, as I've learned over the years from the Brits on the forum, is really the paradise of the UK. It's got all the free stuff, low crime rate, lack of bureaucracy, superb driving skills, excellent road maintenance, no Americans, footy, lager, polite manners, excellent cuisine, prompt, considerate service, skilled tradesman, and convenient access to local mosques. Anyone moving there instantly stops whinging about Thailand, happy as clam, space monkeys all shooed off. Highly recommended.  

 

Why are you bashing those who's bashing Thailand?

 

Everybody has their own reasons say what they feel.

 

Some have no money/courage/skills to switch but I feel they have same right as you to express frustration. You are happy - fine. Some are not, leave them alone.

16 hours ago, JimTripper said:

I'm getting that same feeling. I feel like I just don't belong here anymore (just a personal thing, not Thailand's fault).

 

I have been getting strong inclinations to go back to Mexico. I can get residency there and it's close to the Usa where I'm from.

 

What happens if I get much older and something happens in Thailand with the visa, some stupid reporting issue, etc. It just does not feel like a stable option for older people.

Trust your instincts. They are usually right.

From wiki ... choose wisely 

56 minutes ago, maesariang said:

Trust your instincts. They are usually right.

Of course. Puerto Vallarta is a bit more expensive though so there is a money issue. I don't think many expats would be in Thailand if they could afford anywhere, though very few admit it. I think that's what a lot of the complaining is about, not being able to afford "paradise", not merely being unhappy anywhere you go.

4 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

Of course. Puerto Vallarta is a bit more expensive though so there is a money issue. I don't think many expats would be in Thailand if they could afford anywhere, though very few admit it. I think that's what a lot of the complaining is about, not being able to afford "paradise", not merely being unhappy anywhere you go.

There is some truth to that for many but there are many exceptions as well.

When I was seeking quite early retirement Thailand was the ONLY country that worked for me as far as visa qualifications. I would have definitely moved to Mexico back then if I had qualified back then. 

Puerto Vallarta is investigating the fifth murder of a woman so far this month.

 

https://www.vallartadaily.com/puerto-vallarta-investigating-the-fifth-murder-of-a-woman-so-far-this-month/

 

No thanks. If I have to go I'd rather not have my face sliced off by deranged Mexican Jalisco cartel members, asking me mockingly if I want "agua".

 

Did you know the ancestors of Mexicans used to cut out the hearts of infants to feed them to their God?

15 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Puerto Vallarta is investigating the fifth murder of a woman so far this month.

 

https://www.vallartadaily.com/puerto-vallarta-investigating-the-fifth-murder-of-a-woman-so-far-this-month/

 

No thanks. If I have to go I'd rather not have my face sliced off by deranged Mexican Jalisco cartel members, asking me mockingly if I want "agua".

 

Did you know the ancestors of Mexicans used to cut out the hearts of infants to feed them to their God?

Silly to refer to ancient history but my current issues with PV are how miserable the hot season is, occasional crocodiles in the beach waters, the health care options compared to a real city, and yes the price inflation especially with the strong peso.

On the coast, I kind of like Mazatlan better. Unlike PV it's a REAL big city instead of only a tourism beach resort city. Also of course more affordable.

If I did move to Mexico now, I would most likely be looking at Queretaro with it's big city amenities, relative safety, and year round moderate weather. Also hard to rule out Guadalajara, Mexico's very lively second city. Or a less popular and lower cost inland colonial city like San Luis Potosi or Aguascaliente. Merida is the safest city but basically hot as hell so no thanks. 

21 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

Of course. Puerto Vallarta is a bit more expensive though so there is a money issue. I don't think many expats would be in Thailand if they could afford anywhere, though very few admit it. I think that's what a lot of the complaining is about, not being able to afford "paradise", not merely being unhappy anywhere you go.

I only dislike the smoke and stupid visas. The lifestyle is great.

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Silly to refer to ancient history but my current issues with PV are how miserable the hot season is, occasional crocodiles in the beach waters, the health care options compared to a real city, and yes the price inflation especially with the strong peso.

If I did move to Mexico now, I would most likely be looking at Queretaro with it's big city amenities, relative safety, and year round moderate weather. Also hard to rule out Guadajara, Mexico's second city. Or a less popular and lower cost inland colonial city like San Luis Potosi or Aguascaliente. Merida is the safest city but basically hot as hell so no thanks. 

Yeah, I would not opt for Mexico unless I was a US Citizen. A lot of it being able to get to the US quickly covered under medicare or for other logistical reasons that makes life a lot easier. If I was from the UK or something I would not want to be stuck over there. Also, I relate to the people a "bit more" having grown up in California which is like a little Mexico now.

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Silly to refer to ancient history but my current issues with PV are how miserable the hot season is, occasional crocodiles in the beach waters, the health care options compared to a real city, and yes the price inflation especially with the strong peso.

If I did move to Mexico now, I would most likely be looking at Queretaro with it's big city amenities, relative safety, and year round moderate weather. Also hard to rule out Guadajara, Mexico's second city. Or a less popular and lower cost inland colonial city like San Luis Potosi or Aguascaliente. Merida is the safest city but basically hot as hell so no thanks. 

 

I hear people raving about living in Mexico all the time, then I open the newspaper and it's 11 women had their ears sliced off by cartel members, American surfer tourists murdered, femicide this and that, female cartel member placed head of rival cartel member opposite the decapitated body of rival and hung it on a bridge....I don't even understand how anyone can live there. If someone tells me they're from Mexico I'm already terrified and ensure I make a  quick exit...

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

I hear people raving about living in Mexico all the time, then I open the newspaper and it's 11 women had their ears sliced off by cartel members, American surfer tourists murdered, femicide this and that, female cartel member placed head of rival cartel member opposite the decapitated body of rival and hung it on a bridge....I don't even understand how anyone can live there. If someone tells me they're from Mexico I'm already terrified and ensure I make a  quick exit...

Well it's where the vast majority of American and Canadian expats move to and it's not even close.

Mexico City is incredibly popular with digital nomads to the point where the locals are getting seriously pissed off about it. 

The trick is to move to the much safer areas, which the vast majority of expats do.

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well it's where the vast majority of American and Canadian expats move to and it's not even close.

Mexico City is incredibly popular with digital nomads to the point where the locals are getting seriously pissed off about it. 

The trick is to move to the much safer areas, which the vast majority of expats do.

 

It's super popular, on account you can really party there I suspect. But aren't there cartels all over the country there?

7 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

It's super popular, on account you can really party there I suspect. But aren't there cartels all over the country there?

I don't agree that partying is the main draw for most.

Cartel influence varies by specific region.

Morelia and Queretaro are considered the least cartel risk.

Mazatlan beach city which is in Sinoloa of all places is considered safe enough.

Even a place like Lake Chapala a major retirement haven sometimes has cartel issues but they generally don't impact tourists and expats.

A much more famous beach city Acapulco (which I have visited and loved) has been considered too unsafe for a long time. 

I couldn't open that article about femicide in Puerto Vallarta but I assume that involved locals, not expats and tourists.

Mexico is a much larger country than most people realize. It's not hard at all to pick the safer areas, but on the other hand if you're driving especially at night between regions, you need to do a lot of research first.

10 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

It's super popular, on account you can really party there I suspect. But aren't there cartels all over the country there?

My understanding is they keep them out of the better areas to not jeopardize tourism. The problem is you can't just roam around the country, you're kind of stuck in a safe area. They can hold up busses and cars for example if your doing long trips, just bandits basically for normal people, the killings are cartel related (unless you're caught in some sort of crossfire 🤷🏻‍♂️). I never felt unsafe when I was there, but I never ventured out of popular areas and I would fly between cities.