Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[JCauto]

On 9/7/2024 at 9:34 PM, NoDisplayName said:

It's bad enough I have to pay tax on interstellar/multi-dimensional income to Uncle Sam for life, but Thailand wants a cut also?

 

I ran the numbers.........I manage my finances to remain at the zero tax limit in the USA, which will result in $10,000 paid annually to Thailand.  All capital gains are taxed as normal income with no offset for capital losses.

 

I don't think so.  How do you say 'hello' in Khmer?

 

Please PM me on how to access my multi-dimensional bank account, could really use an incoming transfer in this time-space continuum.

 

"Jom riap soua" is how to say "Hello" in Khmer. You'd like the place, lovely people and Phnom Penh becoming more like a big city every day.

[Will B Good]

4 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Those funds have been in the bank since prior to 31/12/2023 and will stay there.

 

I live on rice and fish caught from the river, one meal a day 🙂

 

 

 

 

Got it.

 

So stick 400,000B (for me) in the bank...... leave it sat there....then live off cash from ATM? Correct?

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Yeah, I am already waiting to hear the IO during my February extension process, ask me "So how are you funding your stay here, if you haven't sent money here in over a year?" If they do link visas and tax compliance, will they also give us crap about not sending money here, even if our bank account is above the Marriage 400,000/Retirement 800,000 requirements?

 

That could happen.  There are reports in some older threads where an IO has asked to see activity in savings accounts during extension appointments.

 

Immigration already has the catch-all item in the list of required documents "other documents requested by IO."  The IO could simply ask for last year's Thai tax return if passport shows 180+ days in country.

[Old Croc]

This is an American vid, but it shows an alternative to double taxing pensioners

 

 

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, lordgrinz said:

We should be taxed based on our citizenship status, we can then file our taxes to whatever home country we hold citizenship. Then let the respective governments transfer taxes (if any) we pay to the host countries, let them fight over it without inconveniencing us. If the host countries want us to pay their taxes, then they can fight over giving us citizenship by offering us incentives. We'll call it the free market.

The idea of paying income tax in a country where you have non-immigrant status is absurd and even more absurd when currency exchange rates put you into the highest tax bracket that citizens would pay even though you may be merely middle class in your own country.

 

The idea of the income tax was to distribute wealth among citizens and share the outstanding money in an economy. All of that goes out of the window when you think of taxing non-immigrants on temporary visas.

[JimGant]

On 9/8/2024 at 11:45 AM, Dogmatix said:

I am know about 401K.  If no specifically exempted in the DTA, it would be taxable in Thailand.

401k, IRAs, like private pensions, are taxable primarily by Thailand. The US has secondary taxation rights, due to the saving clause in all DTAs, that allow the US taxation rights regardless of what the treaty says. Thus, Thailand gets to tax your 401k/IRA/private pension as the primary taxation authority. As such, they get to keep all the taxes collected -- and the US has to absorb a tax credit for these Thai taxes paid. Result: US may not get to keep any taxes, if Thai taxes are greater than those of the US. Or, if Thai taxes are less than US -- Thailand still gets to keep all taxes collected; and the US collects whatever is left after absorbing the credit. You, the US taxpayer, still end up paying the same overall tax bill, when you add the two countries' tax bills.

 

The below quote from the US-Thai Technical Explanation of the treaty:

 

Quote

Paragraph 1 provides that private pensions and other similar remuneration paid in
consideration of past employment are generally taxable only in the residence State of the recipient.

The phrase “pensions and other similar remuneration” is intended to encompass
payments made by private retirement plans and arrangements in consideration of past employment. In the United States, the plans encompassed by Paragraph 1 include: qualified plans under section 401(a), individual retirement plans (including individual retirement plans.....

 

 

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, RocketDog said:

This phrase changes everything that I understood about the new law.

Am I missing something?

the draft of this possible law is only being discussed at this time.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, parallelman said:

This is in English. Do you know where to find it written in Thai?

go to the revenue dept webb page - in Thai and or English

 

[Ricardo99]

The Philippines welcomes expats and retirees with open arms and wallets.

 

Better English speakers, better beer and no offshore income Tax.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, Unamerican said:

What makes you think this? 

If your US tax is less than that of Thailand, then Thailand could legally tax you on the difference.  If the other way around, then you are stuck with the US tax only

[NorthernRyland]

22 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Obviusly - the reason for this change to worldwide income taxation is because so many people have never or do not pay income taxes to any country.. 

 

Is this because tax evasion or are they simply not required and which countries are you referring to? I'm a tax slave unless I relinquish my US citizenship so this idea of not paying taxes is totally alien to me.

[Aussie999]

1 hour ago, Lopburikid said:

OK. Just thinking if the monthly income for a retirement visa is B65,000 ( some IMO say 67) if that is taxed at 10% (yearly) that would reduce your monthly income by 10% or 25% meaning you don't have sufficient money to live on. Just thinking out load.😜 Ps: It hasn't been passed though as yet.

check if your country has a double tax agreement... just use google, like I did

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

5 hours ago, Aussie999 said:

For any concerned Aussies .  Australia has a double tax agreement with Thailand, so if taxed in Australia, you do not pay tax in Thailand... 

You have to be careful how you are interpreting that. It's not the way they work. 

This may help a bit - posted it 10 pages back. See Dinga's  post - a few months old  looking at aspects of tax in Thailand for Australians.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1306896-thai-government-to-tax-remitted-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/page/282/

Edited September 9 by Fat is a type of crazy

[smew]

simply.... good bye thailand 

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, jwest10 said:

I am seeing different opinions on the pink id card and has the same number of digits as the space for Tin space on old form  and some say it acts as your Tin number?

 

just visit your local Thai revenue dept office and ask them - get it from a proper source - others have been told that the number will be the same as your pink card - I don't really know but people here are all experts but funny how their answers differ!

[NorthernRyland]

9 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

This is an American vid, but it shows an alternative to double taxing pensioners

 

Robert Reich is such a greedy little goblin. He probably spends his days rubbing his hands together thinking how to get his grubby little mitts on other peoples money. Deplorable person.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

That's assuming one pays tax in a DTA home country, if not a DTA wont be of any use.

 

1 hour ago, Wrwest said:

So, I stay exactly how many days spending income in Thailand? Exit to spend in another country how many days? Return and repeat? Ah, 180 days total, not necessarily consecutive days, right?

right on the last question - 180 days of the same calendar year broken up anyway you want.

[JimGant]

On 9/8/2024 at 12:24 PM, Taboo2 said:

If your 401 is taxed, which most are, it is exempt.

DTA gives Thailand primary taxation rights on your 401k. So, it's not exempt. US has to absorb a tax credit, meaning, you need to know what your Thai tax would be on this 401k before you file your US tax return, so you can deduct the credit (figure the Thai tax out on the back of an envelope, if you haven't already filed; US does not require any proof of this credit).

[jwest10]

4 minutes ago, Presnock said:

just visit your local Thai revenue dept office and ask them - get it from a proper source - others have been told that the number will be the same as your pink card - I don't really know but people here are all experts but funny how their answers differ!

Yes, done that a few times and amazing asking what new forms but you seem not to have to fill in a tax form as you below  all the threasholds but thanks

[Aussie999]

41 minutes ago, Metapod said:

 

That's not how DTA works.

then instead of just saying "That's not how DTA works," tell us how."

also, read this.
https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1989/36.html

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, nong38 said:

For those thinking of moving Cambodia has the same tax laws as here pretty much but has yet to enforce them. Malasia does not tax incoming foreign income as yet but the rules can change at the drop of a hat, especially here.

 

Currently no US-Cambodia tax treaty.

From what I've read online, Cambodia also has a worldwide tax system in effect, but only taxes foreign salaries.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, wmlc said:

That may be true. But what you and others here don't seem to understand is that then law that has laws been in place deals with only what bis accessible income and who has to file. First check the revenue code to see if your pension is exempt. Then if you want to be a good boy, Gert a tax ID and file. The DTA only helps you determine if you have to pay Thailand or not. The point is that technically you need to file. Most of the expats moaning probably won't have to pay 1 Baht.  However, until we know about enforcement, are you going to voluntarily file?

 

Three of my clients denied tax IDs because the revenue dept said its was not needed. Then you have the expat in that mist recent you tube video charging expats 7000 Baht for a tax ID. 

 

Wait and see about enforcement. 

Yes as part of the change to this new taxation should it occur, they would also have to amend their rules  getting a thai tax id as well as filing tax forms whether one has assessable income or not.  Until these changes occur, no one need to do anything.

[JimGant]

23 hours ago, John Drake said:

And THEN when you move some of that money to Thailand that Thailand has already taxed you on, will they also tax the remittance?

The taxation of remittances goes away if worldwide taxation is implemented.

[RichardColeman]

Feel pity for those poor uk pensioners about to lose say 15% of their 'un-raising' pensions.

 

I fully support people paying tax if they get paid by say a UK company and are NOT paying the tax in the UK - that is work that needs tax paid on it, either in UK or Thailand.

 

Trying to steal say 15% of all foreigners income means I will not live here anymore - It is just not worth it - losing 117,000 baht a year for the privilage of living here for me is not worthwhile 

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Just to clarify  and have stated this on a number of posts and have been around to my local tax office several times and the old forms 90 and 91 are titled Income tax on Employment  Thailand,, yet on line 2 stating pensions.

Most of us are below the various thresholds  up to 500 or 560K in any case.
They also stated as you have no employment income in Thailand there is no need to file a form, of which there are none at present for this tax yearl
Too many so-called experts and in any case would not issue a Tin number but have a pink card but means nothing.
We wait until proper communication in English lol comes about!!!

 

Form 90:  Personal Income Tax Return
for taxpayer with income not only from employment

 

Form 91:  Personal Income Tax Return
for taxpayer with only income from employment

 

I got a TIN in Bangkok years ago in order to refund interest and dividend withholding.

 

Now that I have a pink ID, I use that number for online filing.

[kiwikeith]

On 9/8/2024 at 5:09 AM, proton said:

What were the allowances for tax free income brought in again? So it's not what you bring in now, but what you have at home even if it's already taxed. Can't see this being a winner, another nail in the coffin.

They can't tax your pension if it's taxed at your home country due to the double taxation agreements.

They seem to be doing everything possible to get rid of expats staying here, it's gone mad since they legalized dope the place has just got more money hungry.

And I think the motorbikes are behaving worse than I've ever seen, loud noise mufflers fitted, no helmets and driving, cutting you off like loonies, it always was bad but to me it seems to have got worse.

[4MyEgo]

32 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

 

Got it.

 

So stick 400,000B (for me) in the bank...... leave it sat there....then live off cash from ATM? Correct?

 

 

 

Depends on how you brought the money in the country, e.g. transfer into your account after 1 January 2024, then apparently it's taxable.

 

If you went back home and brought cash in, you can change it how you go at the local gold shop, no questions asked.

[Roo Island]

On 9/7/2024 at 6:53 PM, Danderman123 said:

All of my worldwide income is taxed in the USA, so no tax is due Thailand.

I'm no tax expert, but have been researching this for other countries. You will have to do a tax return now for Thailand and you will get credit for any taxes you paid in the US. If the tax rate is higher in Thailand, I think you will owe taxes, right?

 

https://smartasset.com/taxes/current-federal-income-tax-brackets

 

I would guess few of us are above the 22% or 24% bracket. Though things might change a bit when the tax cuts Trump implemented expire next year. He reduced the rates a bit but doubled the standard deduction.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act

[RichardColeman]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

 

1st they want to tax us on income remitted, ok, I have found a way around that one, so no tax to them.

 

Presumably they will still go after the money you bring into Thailand in order to obtain your visa extensions ? How do you avoid tax on that?

 

If you would be so kind.

I imagine an extra 1000 baht on the agent will fix tax issues !

[Andrew65]

32 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

This is an American vid, but it shows an alternative to double taxing pensioners

 

 

I expect that Orange Man would feature in this vid!?

Edited September 9 by Andrew65