Poll: Do you want Ukraine to WIN in the Russia-Ukraine war (it's a binary choice)

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

What I am saying is, The US is using Ukraine to fight Russia, The US instigated this whole fiasco, because they want to split Russia into many pieces so they can take over Russia and take it's natural resources for itself. The late McCain saying Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country!  Rationale is realising what you were told is all lies. It is the realisation of reality. The reality is Ukraine lost this war before it even started.  In the not too distant future we will see who is right. Ukraine will either try save what it has left of a country via negotiation or Russia will take all of Ukraine. 

 

to quote "So what you're saying is if a bigger/stronger country wants to invade another, the world should just let them" Isn't that what the US has been doing with all these failed wars it started. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc. It can't even make peace with a small island 90 miles off it's Florida coast. The USA is the problem.

This war is because Ukraine have valuable resources and strategic critical necessary open water connection to the black sea for the Russians. 

Edited September 16 by Hummin

[MarkBR]

Had not realised how many pro-Putin fascists there were on this forum.  All are on my ignore list.

[CharlieKo]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's exactly what radical isolationist America Firsters (literally their name) pro Hitler fascists such as Henry Ford and Lindbergh said leading to WW2. Interesting that today we have similar rich and famous  people taking similar positions (Musk and Theil). When Trump first started branding as America First, American Jewish organizations asked him to not do that because of the specifically American fascist history behind that seeming to many innocent phrase. Of course he ignored them. 

Sounds like an admission that the USA is indeed a fascist state which thinks it has a right to dictate to the world what can and can't be done!. We the people of the world just want the USA to mind it' own business, and not go around the world starting wars under the banner of democracy. The US is not democratic.

 

[Hummin]

Just now, CharlieKo said:

Sounds like an admission that the USA is indeed a fascist state which thinks it has a right to dictate to the world what can and can't be done!. We the people of the world just want the USA to mind it' own business, and not go around the world starting wars under the banner of democracy. The US is not democratic.

 

Usa have the greatest economy for now, and had the throne for 130 years. Do you think that's possible just being nice? An Empire do and takes what it needs, to keeps it's position 

[CharlieKo]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

This war is because Ukraine have valuable resources and strategic critical necessary open water connection to the black sea for the Russians. 

Indeed, and Blackrock and other investment house have bought up a lot of Ukrainian land for that purpose. The US wanting Russian land for itself! why would the US need access to the black sea. To antagonise Russia, so they can place nukes in the area. Yet again the US starting something it cannot finish. Even Biden doesn't have the guts to take on a nuclear power such as Russia. 

[CharlieKo]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Usa have the greatest economy for now, and had the throne for 130 years. Do you think that's possible just being nice? An Empire do and takes what it needs, to keeps it's position 

Including a world war? At least you understand the problem is the USA. 

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, CharlieKo said:

Indeed, and Blackrock and other investment house have bought up a lot of Ukrainian land for that purpose. The US wanting Russian land for itself! why would the US need access to the black sea. To antagonise Russia, so they can place nukes in the area. Yet again the US starting something it cannot finish. Even Biden doesn't have the guts to take on a nuclear power such as Russia. 

Well, thank you for taking my post to legitimate your views, which I do not agree with

[CharlieKo]

Just now, Hummin said:

Well, thank you for taking my post to legitimate your views, which I do not agree with

That's not what your words are saying! "Do you think that's possible just being nice? An Empire do and takes what it needs, to keeps it's position"  5555

[Hummin]

Just now, CharlieKo said:

Including a world war? At least you understand the problem is the USA. 

I rather side with Usa, Than Russia, Iran, South Korea or China to mention a few 

[Hummin]

Just now, CharlieKo said:

That's not what your words are saying! "Do you think that's possible just being nice? An Empire do and takes what it needs, to keeps it's position"  5555

War is the nature of tribe mentality, that's who we are

[CharlieKo]

It's not about taking sides. It's about allowing a multi polar world where countries trade with each other. And no country has a right to dictate to another country what it can or can't do. Ukraine is not a national security problem for the USA. It is thousands of miles away from the USA. But the US think they have a right to decide what happens in that region.  

[CharlieKo]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

War is the nature of tribe mentality, that's who we are

So you agree with me. Or is that the excuse as to why America thinks it has a right to dictate to the world?  

[1FinickyOne]

ok -but I don't think anyone will ask or abide me me 

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

So you agree with me. Or is that the excuse as to why America thinks it has a right to dictate to the world?  

I understand the history, and I understand what happens and why.

 

Still it is Putin who invaded Ukraine, and started killing civilians. 

 

 

Edited September 16 by Hummin

[GammaGlobulin]

In war, as we all know by now...

 

Nobody Wins.

 

[Hummin]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There are other reasons for Ukraine to take Russian lands. Increase their missile range. Try to bait Russia out from Ukraine front lines (didn't work unfortunately). Refusing to play the game of a conventional attritional war which they can't win, but they can win in other ways.

 

Something that is working.

 

Bring the war back home to Russia.

Russians are starting to realize Putin isn't the winner he portrays himself as.

The economy is suffering greatly. 

The Russian people aren't likely to storm the Kremlin, but it becomes more and more likely that powerful Russians will throw him out a window.

Im afraid Putins Russia have a totally different view than you and me, and unfortunately, he is still an respected leader. Of course always different opinions, but I guess same as we read here among us, westerns who understand everything is not great here either. 

 

The targets Ukrainian do, I bet is cleared with Usa and Nato, so they cant just fire missiles where ever they want. Also most likely intelligence information from Nato member as well used. 

 

Invading Kursk I believe was a response in fear of Trump getting the seat back and start dictating how this is going to end, and a Trumf card if can say so. Personally I would not hold Kursk but continue attacking where ever they hold forces and supplies continuously, and and not risking human resources by trying to hold a piece of land inside Russia, but what do I really know?

[1FinickyOne]

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

In war, as we all know by now...

 

Nobody Wins.

 

War - ugh! What is it good for?

[MarkBR]

Just now, 1FinickyOne said:

War - ugh! What is it good for?

Warmongers and those who invest in companies that are involved in war & its weapons make lots of money.  Hence, the profitability of 'defense' industries.  They, therefore, do much lobbying to get lots of 'benefits' from representatives & governments worldwide re policy & government decisions.  They make much money from the suffering of others.

[1FinickyOne]

8 minutes ago, MarkBR said:

Warmongers and those who invest in companies that are involved in war & its weapons make lots of money.  Hence, the profitability of 'defense' industries.  They, therefore, do much lobbying to get lots of 'benefits' from representatives & governments worldwide re policy & government decisions.  They make much money from the suffering of others.

Send in the clowns, there ought to be clowns - - well, maybe next year, 

[fotofinish]

10 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

And hopefully they win soon !

thieving homicidal fwits

[fotofinish]

8 hours ago, MarkBR said:

Had not realised how many pro-Putin fascists there were on this forum.  All are on my ignore list.

just brainwashed thieving fkwits like their runt 'leader'

[ericbj]

Changed circumstances brought about by the downfall of the Soviet regime, wrought no change of attitudes in dyed-in-the-wool western propagandists, abetted by lobby groups of NATO's "defence" industries.

 

Dominance through conflict was sought.  A win-lose game, where the US and its satellites were to be the winners.

 

Was this game won ?

 

Yes.  From the point-of-view of the US armaments industry. (whose shareholders made capital gains of around 1,000% over the course of the Afghan War.

 

No.  From the perspective of ordinary people of countries that participated in the wars "against terror" and to"make the world safe for democracy".

 

Most definitely not from those people on the receiving end of the bombing and shelling of civilian targets and the destruction of their homeland and way-of-life.

 

Ask yourself:

 

"Were the DECLARED objectives of these wars achieved ?"

 

To see with some degree of perspective the NATO-Russian proxy war in the Ukraine, it is necessary to go back at least as far as the Maidan coup; and preferably further.  To see that this was a war of "Russian aggression" that was sought by the US government and its cronies.

 

It was intended to initiate the economic destruction, the submission, and the break-up of the Russian Federation.  Through the imposition of limitless economic sanctions.

 

The Deep State's plan back-fired.  But, unwilling to admit defeat, they are now playing a game of nuclear-weapons poker.

 

For government to be democratic, the common people must assert their authority over it, and demand win-win solutions that contribute to a world of peaceful co-operation for the well-being of all.

 

This is the real challenge that we face today.

[Patong2021]

On 9/15/2024 at 6:43 AM, novacova said:

You mean by winning the war thousands more will need to die. How about stop funding the war and save lives…seek peace not war, or did you forget that somewhere along the way?

 

Take it up with Putin. Russia funded the violent  Russoethnic militias, the same  people who murdered the innocent passengers onboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 with a Buk 9M38 surface-to-air missile on 17 July 2014.  All 283 passengers and 15 crew were killed.

 

On 9/15/2024 at 6:46 AM, Andrew Dwyer said:

If you want to start another anti Trump topic just start one, no need to mask it with the Russia/Ukraine poll .

 

This is not about Trump. Unfortunately it does show his supporters on this site to be closely  associated with Russia.

 

On 9/15/2024 at 6:47 AM, novacova said:

Why are you confusing the difference? And why is Hitler always the go-to-abject where there’s no resemblance?

 

Putin is the one who kept raising the issue of Hitler and trying to link Ukraine to Nazis.

 

On 9/15/2024 at 7:19 AM, Jingthing said:

As far as a much fairer peace deal, sadly Ukraine might need to do give up lands permanently to Russia but for that to happen they need something very big in return -- EU and NATO membership. 

 

Ukraine should not be a NATO member because of the large infiltration of Russian saboteurs. It is worse than in Turkey. Ukraine's corruption is wore than Hungary and Bulgaria, and it cannot meet the EU membership requirements.

 

On 9/15/2024 at 7:20 AM, impulse said:

Ukraine has already lost the war.  There is no way they can win back the Donbass and Crimea in a land war without drawing in NATO, and that means WW3.

I want the dying to stop and the spending turned from futile fighting and dying, to reconstruction.  The sooner the better.

I don't celebrate Russia's win.  But it's the reality on the ground.

 

Russia illegally invaded. It must give up the lands it has  taken.

 

On 9/15/2024 at 7:27 AM, NoDisplayName said:

Well, of course I want Russia to succeed.

Ethnic cleansing is bad.

Russia initiated the ethnic cleansing.

[Patong2021]

13 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

In war, as we all know by now...

Nobody Wins.

 

 

US war of independence was a win for the people of the USA.

Kuwait War/Desert Storm 1 was a win for the people of Kuwait 

India has had many internal civil wars many of which  kept the integrity of some Indian states

England's Glorious Revolution freed England of the perverse and corrupt influence of the Church of Rome

US Civil War resulted in the freeing of the negro slaves and breaking of the political  grip of a small number of wealthy families over the US south.

War of Greek Independence  freed the Greek people from their enslavement by the Ottoman Turks.

[retarius]

17 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

In war, as we all know by now...

 

Nobody Wins.

 

This simply isn't true.

[retarius]

18 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

Indeed, and Blackrock and other investment house have bought up a lot of Ukrainian land for that purpose. The US wanting Russian land for itself! why would the US need access to the black sea. To antagonise Russia, so they can place nukes in the area. Yet again the US starting something it cannot finish. Even Biden doesn't have the guts to take on a nuclear power such as Russia. 

I have a sneaky feeling that when Ukraine is kicked out ignominiously from Kursk, the Russians will expand the Donbass fight down to Odessa. Ukraine will be landlocked.

[Digitalbanana]

The framing of the question as a choice between Ukraine "winning" or Russia "winning" can be misleading, as it implies that both sides have equal stakes in the conflict and that there is a clear winner and loser.

 

In reality, Ukraine is not seeking to "win" anything that it did not already possess before the war. Rather, Ukraine is defending its sovereignty and territorial integrity against an aggressor that has violated international law and caused enormous damage to the country and its people.

 

A more accurate way to frame the question might be to ask whether people support Ukraine's right to defend itself against Russian aggression, or whether they believe that Russia's actions are justified. This framing would better reflect the asymmetry of the conflict and the moral imperative to support Ukraine in its fight for self-determination and justice.

[Patong2021]

19 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

Sounds like an admission that the USA is indeed a fascist state which thinks it has a right to dictate to the world what can and can't be done!. We the people of the world just want the USA to mind it' own business, and not go around the world starting wars under the banner of democracy. The US is not democratic.

 

 

Nice regurgitation of the Russian talking points. One flaw in the  claim, that you overlook: The EU is the principal architect of the resistance to Russian expansionism. In particular, the former east European nations occupied by the  cruel despotic Russian colonial military and its puppet regimes are most concerned about the  Russian attempt to revive its Soviet empire. After the EU is Canada which has strategically given large amounts per capita to fund the Ukraine fight for freedom. The two most vocal advocates on behalf of Ukraine are Poland and Canada.

 

 

19 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

Indeed, and Blackrock and other investment house have bought up a lot of Ukrainian land for that purpose. The US wanting Russian land for itself! why would the US need access to the black sea. To antagonise Russia, so they can place nukes in the area. Yet again the US starting something it cannot finish. Even Biden doesn't have the guts to take on a nuclear power such as Russia. 

 

Please identify and list the large amounts of land that you claim BlackRock has purchased.

The claim has been shown to be initiated by Russian misinformation agents.

I am giving you the opportunity to support your claim. Now do it.

[CharlieKo]

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Nice regurgitation of the Russian talking points. One flaw in the  claim, that you overlook: The EU is the principal architect of the resistance to Russian expansionism. In particular, the former east European nations occupied by the  cruel despotic Russian colonial military and its puppet regimes are most concerned about the  Russian attempt to revive its Soviet empire. After the EU is Canada which has strategically given large amounts per capita to fund the Ukraine fight for freedom. The two most vocal advocates on behalf of Ukraine are Poland and Canada.

 

 

 

Please identify and list the large amounts of land that you claim BlackRock has purchased.

The claim has been shown to be initiated by Russian misinformation agents.

I am giving you the opportunity to support your claim. Now do it.

I don't need any opportunity from you to support anything. You can stick that where the sun don't shine! 

 

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/kyiv-has-sold-ukraine-to-blackrock-russia-lambasts-ukraine-for-taking-support-from-us/videoshow/106731755.cms?from=mdr

 

 

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/blackrock-plots-to-buy-ukraine/

 

 

As for regurgitation? If you cared to not just accept a one sided story and went out of your way to so some research and, yes actually look at media which you don't do atm. Then you might see all you are doing is absorbing propaganda from one side. There is always two sides to any story. Somewhere in the middle is the reality of what is really going on!

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, CharlieKo said:

I don't need any opportunity from you to support anything. You can stick that where the sun don't shine! 

 

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/kyiv-has-sold-ukraine-to-blackrock-russia-lambasts-ukraine-for-taking-support-from-us/videoshow/106731755.cms?from=mdr

 

 

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/blackrock-plots-to-buy-ukraine/

 

 

As for regurgitation? If you cared to not just accept a one sided story and went out of your way to so some research and, yes actually look at media which you don't do atm. Then you might see all you are doing is absorbing propaganda from one side. There is always two sides to any story. Somewhere in the middle is the reality of what is really going on!

"...two sides to any story."  Well I know that the Earth is round and don't need to go read the Flat-Earthers "research" to know that it's round.  That's the problem with you guys who claim to do "research."  You're mostly reading right wing cr*p that hasn't been vetted and is masquerading as facts.  You actually ended up knowing less than someone who hasn't read anything at all.  Because what you think you know is just untrue.