Feel sorry for AN posters who bought electric

[josephbloggs]

10 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

Get the tissues to wipe the tears. Not even new or rare.

 

https://www.classic.com/m/honda/civic/5th-gen/

Erm ok, so if you put one in storage in the mid 90's and are now selling it for $6-$11k have you made money?? 

You have a very different idea of investments to me.

If you'd pulled out a link that showed mid 90's Honda Civics going for $50-60k I would have given you credit.

You proved my point that a bog standard mass market car will not go up in value. Your Hondas haven't - they have gone down in value - a BYD mass market car wouldn't. either. You can keep your tissues.

Edited October 3 by josephbloggs

[3NUMBAS]

new better batteries are coming with double the power and range and older ecars prices will plunge and become unsalable ,sorry guys

give it a few years before they kick in 

same in UK where prices plunging and dealers fear to keep them in stock  

[richard_smith237]

20 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Carbon capture and storage is an exercise in thermodynamic implausibility.

 

AFAIK there is not a single CCS facility which is operating to its design parameters. Even one of the CCS's most vocal proponents, Professor Tim Flannery, has admitted the technology does not work.

 

CCS is a scientific hoax, like Piltdown Man and cold fusion. The fact billions have been spent on it does not make it any less of a con by the fossil fuel industry.

 

Thats why I'm interested in it....    and am interested in responses such as yours, primarily because I'm a layman when it comes to such thoughts and I know I know so little of it. 

 

I'm aware that Aramco has spearheaded carbon recapture tech and still is... Particularly with haulage and shipping....   developments may be made to scale this down to ICE's.

 

The same can be said for Nuclear Fusion (not not Fission), and Hydrogen fuel cell tech...   

... I'm interested in them as an alternative, but see we are not quite there yet, although perhaps a lot closer with H2. 

 

 

Edited October 3 by richard_smith237

[Celsius]

11 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Erm ok, so if you put one in storage in the mid 90's and are now selling it for $6-$11k have you made money?? 

You have a very different idea of investments to me.

If you'd pulled out a link that showed mid 90's Honda Civics going for $50-60k I would have given you credit.

You proved my point that a bog standard mass market car will not go up in value. Your Hondas haven't - they have gone down in value - a BYD mass market car wouldn't. either. You can keep your tissues.

 

They appreciated more than msrp at the time.

 

Will your electric? I don't think so. 

 

And I did not start this thread saying I dislike electric. Just that the value will plunge much faster than ICE. I mean it is pretty bloody obvious just after a few years.

 

 

Edited October 3 by Celsius

[motdaeng]

48 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

new better batteries are coming with double the power and range and older ecars prices will plunge and become unsalable ,sorry guys

give it a few years before they kick in 

 

it's really interesting: only non-ev owners are the ones demanding more range and better battery quality.

only ev denier's claim that today's battery technology is useless and uneconomical.

 

if you ask ev owners, they'll tell you that for everyday use, today's battery technology and range are already

completely sufficient and will continue to be for the next 15-20 years.

 

one thing is certain, battery technology will see significant progress in the coming years. but only a specific group will

have real benefit from this development. who really needs 1'000 km of range without stopping? who really needs to take

only a few minutes break to charge every few hours on a long journey? 

these ideas mostly come from petrolheads and ev denier's, not from experienced ev owners!

 

by the way, every ev owner has also driven an internal combustion engine (ice) vehicle for years, so they know what

they're talking about. on the other hand, the "ev haters" have zero experience because they've never owned an ev car.

 

it's also noticeable that ice drivers often seems to show a kind of hate and like do insult ev owners. has any ev owner in

this forum ever attacked or insulted an ice driver just for driving an ice vehicle?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3 by motdaeng
typo

[Lacessit]

55 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thats why I'm interested in it....    and am interested in responses such as yours, primarily because I'm a layman when it comes to such thoughts and I know I know so little of it. 

 

I'm aware that Aramco has spearheaded carbon recapture tech and still is... Particularly with haulage and shipping....   developments may be made to scale this down to ICE's.

 

The same can be said for Nuclear Fusion (not not Fission), and Hydrogen fuel cell tech...   

... I'm interested in them as an alternative, but see we are not quite there yet, although perhaps a lot closer with H2. 

 

 

CCS is the equivalent of a perpetual motion machine. 100% efficiency.

 

The maximum efficiency of an electric motor is 80-95%. For an ICE, it is 25-30%. Mission impossible.

 

IMO Aramco's promotion of CCS is the same as the Saudi financing of LIV golf, an attempt to buy respectability.

[NoDisplayName]

14 hours ago, vinny41 said:

If we look at MG ZS EV 2022 with no subsidy and no price reductions

Price was B1,189,000 

we assumed standard rate of depreciation 10% per year

March 2022 price B1,189,000 

March 2023 value should be B1,070,100

March 2024 value should be B963,090

March 2025 value should be B866,781

now if we take into account subsidy of  B240,000 and further price reductions totalling B350,000 

Current price of MG ZS EV Model D is B599,000

Combined subsidy and price reductions total is B590,000

That is a drop in value over 2 years of 49.6% or 24.8% per year

Best solution for current owners is to keep their car rather than give it away due to price reductions by the Brand

 

 

 

But Vinnie, that's not depreciation affecting the price of the car.  It's a price reduction due to lowered cost of EV batteries.

 

That means your car will be worth even more since now it will be affordable to buy a new battery in 8-10 years and double the life of your car.

 

Now that's winning!

[Celsius]

4 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Now that's winning!

 

That's bi-winning 

[KhunLA]

52 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

But Vinnie, that's not depreciation affecting the price of the car.  It's a price reduction due to lowered cost of EV batteries.

 

That means your car will be worth even more since now it will be affordable to buy a new battery in 8-10 years and double the life of your car.

 

Now that's winning!

You're wrong, on all accounts.

 

First the 599k price is simply to get rid of stock, before the revamped is released very soon, probably next auto show, or next March/April 2025 auto show.

 

Has nothing to do with future lower cost batteries to MG

 

Secondly the MSRP of 829k price is simply being competitive, as the 949k price was before their was any real competition in the Thai market.   And NO, the overpriced, POS, Nissan Leaf was and will never be a competitor on any market.

 

Thirdly, I doubt if they'll be passing on the lower cost batteries to the consumer, as they are barely making a profit now, with their little price war.  BYD will control that move, and I don't think they want to sell any lower than they already are.

 

Lastly, there is no need to get a new battery in 8-10 years, as they should still be retaining 70-80% capacity.  The LFP Lithium batteries will easily last 500+ kms or 20 ish years, at least, on original battery.  And I'm sure I'm being conservative with 500k kms / 20 yrs.

 

When the rest of the car can't keep up with the battery, simple repurpose it to your solar system.  As I think in 10 years, most will have one  .... or you're basically on idiot ... IMHO

 

The battery pack itself would be worth more than the rest of the car.  Should be a market for the motor, and rest, to the junk yard for parts

[Bandersnatch]

2 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

new better batteries are coming with double the power and range and older ecars prices will plunge and become unsalable ,sorry guys

 

Those of us who actually own EVs and follow battery  development closely are a bit better informed. Take for example Toyota, who has been promising revolutionary solid state batteries since 2014 and we are still waiting.

 

 

 

I bought my BYD Seal AWD Performance a year ago. It has nearly 600km of range and LiFePO4 as the cathode material, giving excellent cycle life and no danger of thermal runaway. If range was really a worry for me I would have bought the cheaper Long Range version, but I would have had to give up on the 3.8 seconds 0-100kph. I am not worried about range as I know that there are over 100 BYD Dealership in Thailand all with fast DC charging and free coffee and snacks in the customer lounge. I can add 7km of range per kWh and can charge at 150kW/hour. So I can add 350km of range in 20 minutes.

 

The new BYD Seal has already been announced and the improvements are incremental not revolutionary. 

 

Don't forget that every incremental improvement in EVs with have more of a detrimental effect on Internal Combustion Cars sales.

 

 

 

 

 

[HighPriority]

On 10/2/2024 at 2:00 PM, NoDisplayName said:

 

Don't worry 'bout me, buddy.  I know little to nothing 'bout solar systems now, that's why I be axin' questions.  Shirley, I'll "do my own research" before embarking on an installation.

 

Remember -  There are no stupid questions, just stupid responses.

You enjoy that journey…

[lapswim]

Yep, the typical electric car owner has the personality of Rain Man. They memorise all the green power statistics but not the real cost. Without the subsidies the whole industry would be toast. I did not yet see an independent signed off audit of on the electric cars and I suspect that the these cars pollute the same or more than petrol power cars. Electric cars lost out 100 years ago. It is ridiculous that tax payers are subsidising these cars for the rich.  

[mistral53]

1 hour ago, lapswim said:

Yep, the typical electric car owner has the personality of Rain Man. They memorise all the green power statistics but not the real cost. Without the subsidies the whole industry would be toast. I did not yet see an independent signed off audit of on the electric cars and I suspect that the these cars pollute the same or more than petrol power cars. Electric cars lost out 100 years ago. It is ridiculous that tax payers are subsidising these cars for the rich.  

 

Yup, it's true, there are some perks for being rich - not complaining.

[UWEB]

14 hours ago, lapswim said:

Yep, the typical electric car owner has the personality of Rain Man. They memorise all the green power statistics but not the real cost. Without the subsidies the whole industry would be toast. I did not yet see an independent signed off audit of on the electric cars and I suspect that the these cars pollute the same or more than petrol power cars. Electric cars lost out 100 years ago. It is ridiculous that tax payers are subsidising these cars for the rich.  

Thanks for informing me, didn't know that I'm a rich guy.

[Gweiloman]

13 hours ago, mistral53 said:

 

Yup, it's true, there are some perks for being rich - not complaining.

 

25 minutes ago, UWEB said:

Thanks for informing me, didn't know that I'm a rich guy.

Well, I’m glad that taxpayers are also subsidising poor sods like me.