Surprised no reaction from BYD owners on this forum

[ronster]

42 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

Not the same. A permanent discount, followed by more permanent discounts, is not the same as a temporary sale

Their cars so pretty sure they can put whatever price on it they want .

I have bought TVs, clothes etc over years and seen them drop in price permanently . TV went from £2000 to £1000 and stayed at that price .So should I have asked every retailer for my money back 😄

[wimpy]

30 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

So if a BYD Seal AWD Performance is worth ฿200,000 after 10 years then the depreciation would be the same.

 

Will be interesting to see what they are going for in ten years. If dirt cheap, I'd gamble on one. Fun car.

[CallumWK]

1 minute ago, ronster said:

TV went from £2000 to £1000 and stayed at that price .

 

I doubt that was over a period of only a few months, as it is with BYD.

 

The price decreases with TV's is over the period of years, and because production costs decrease, while with BYD it is over just a few months because of the massive CCP subsidies to get their crap sold

[ronster]

3 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

I doubt that was over a period of only a few months, as it is with BYD.

 

The price decreases with TV's is over the period of years, and because production costs decrease, while with BYD it is over just a few months because of the massive CCP subsidies to get their crap sold

No it was a instant price drop and never went back up again . Less than 6 months after I paid £2000 .

[Chongalulu]

19 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Guy on a podcast the other day bought a Porsche 3 years ago £150k, now worth £30k

"There’s a guy works down the chip shop swears he’s Elvis"….

[Formaleins]

21 hours ago, stratocaster said:

From the Thai media. The group, Thai BYD owners association have petitioned the government about the unfair discount practices that have seen some members  claim that their BYD EV has lost 340,000 in the last12 months on resale value. Also they were promised from BYD, free charging at dedicated charging points which turn out to be only open at certain times and normally there is a large queue.

Lost 340000...... how much were people paying for this crap? Burn Your Dreams and your home and garage!

Edited October 9 by Formaleins

[newnative]

20 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Guy on a podcast the other day bought a Porsche 3 years ago £150k, now worth £30k

No surprise there.  German luxury cars typically have some of the steepest declines in value.  

[newnative]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway drops BYD stake to less than 5%

Even for Warren Buffett, BYD can be called a long-term holding. Berkshire Hathaway first bought a stake in BYD in 2008. Berkshire began selling shares in August 2022, cutting just over half its holding over the next two years. As of July 2024, Buffett owned less than 5% of BYD's Hong Kong H-shares, below the threshold where it has to disclose further sales.

    They might have held on to more of those shares.   Not sure which they have/had but BYDDY has gone from around $43 a share to around $83 a share in the last 52 weeks and is currently trading at $75.70 a share.

[Keep Right]

Electric vehicles can catch fire if they are inundated by saltwater, so owners who live in the path of a major storm like Hurricane Helene should take precautions and prepare for the possibility that they’ll be unable to charge their cars during a power outage.

 

https://apnews.com/article/hurricane-helene-electric-vehicles-fire-flooding-0284e2eb2accc0570361def4e963eda0

 

EV vehicles are a very poor choice and investment. Stupid is as stupid does.

[NevisIndustry]

21 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I heard EVs do drop in price rapidly as they are disposable like phones, we know how long those batteries last

I am personally very content to have been able to buy a BYD in TH at a price of THB 560k with full 8 years warranty. 
 

if I have to “dispose” of it after 8 years once warranty is over and in the event serious problems will happen after I am happy and have driven the cheapest vehicle of my life. 

[vinny41]

18 minutes ago, newnative said:

    They might have held on to more of those shares.   Not sure which they have/had but BYDDY has gone from around $43 a share to around $83 a share in the last 52 weeks and is currently trading at $75.70 a share.

 

Edited October 9 by vinny41
typo

[vinny41]

typo

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

As usual the main concern for those who don’t own an EV is depreciation. So let’s consider some evidence.

 

I purchased a D segment Saloon/Sedan in the same class as a Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord. My car is the top of the range BYD Seal AWD Performance so I will compare with the respective top of the range cars.

 

The Camry and Accord cost ฿200,000 more than the Seal 

 

 

 

I will ignore the fact that the Seal came with ฿230,000 worth of freebies 

 

 

 

So what is the dealer price for an Accord and a Camry after 10 years?

 

 

 

 

 

So if a BYD Seal AWD Performance is worth ฿200,000 after 10 years then the depreciation would be the same.

      Spouse and I came to the same conclusion when we were debating a new CR-V purchase or a BYD Sealion.  The numbers greatly favored the Sealion, even if the depreciation is steeper, and we have ordered a Sealion.  

[Bandersnatch]

8 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

EV vehicles are a very poor choice and investment.

 

No vehicle you can buy in Thailand is a good investment.

 

9 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

Stupid is as stupid does.

 

One of my favorite quotes is:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." - Maurice Switzer, 1907

[billd766]

2 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

yes you are right! i had an ice car and the engine failed and I was done ... 

Yet my clunky old 2001 Ford Ranger diesel ICE is still clunking away nearly 23 years later with 472,xxx km on the clock with the original engine and transmission. I have gone through about 5 batteries though. They only cost about 3,xxx baht each to replace.

[Unamerican]

21 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

if you dont drive

But I never drive my phone!  So not a problem, or is it? 

[motdaeng]

18 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

EV vehicles are a very poor choice and investment. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

today, i find myself agreeing with many well-informed and experienced people (regarding bev)...

... "stupid is as stupid does" ... perfectly captures a lot of posts ...

 

[Unamerican]

25 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

major storm like Hurricane Helene

When is she visiting Thailand, or her like?? 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

As usual the main concern for those who don’t own an EV is depreciation. So let’s consider some evidence.

 

I purchased a D segment Saloon/Sedan in the same class as a Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord. My car is the top of the range BYD Seal AWD Performance so I will compare with the respective top of the range cars.

 

The Camry and Accord cost ฿200,000 more than the Seal 

 

 

 

I will ignore the fact that the Seal came with ฿230,000 worth of freebies 

 

 

 

So what is the dealer price for an Accord and a Camry after 10 years?

 

 

 

 

 

So if a BYD Seal AWD Performance is worth ฿200,000 after 10 years then the depreciation would be the same.

You might want to check your settings in one2one as there are 2014 Toyota Camry from dealers ranging from B495K downwards

there are 14 2014 Toyota Camry with higher prices that your picture shows

https://www.one2car.com/รถ-สำหรับ-ขาย/toyota/camry/year-2014?page_size=26&page_number=1&sort=price.desc

Similar with Honda Accord 2014 dealers ranging from B609K

There are 26 2014 dealer listed cars with prices higher than your picture snapshot

https://www.one2car.com/en/cars-for-sale/honda/accord/year-2014?page_size=26&sort=price.desc&page_number=2

[Unamerican]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

the depreciation would be the same.

As measured/compared how, exactly?? 

[vinny41]

54 minutes ago, newnative said:

    They might have held on to more of those shares.   Not sure which they have/had but BYDDY has gone from around $43 a share to around $83 a share in the last 52 weeks and is currently trading at $75.70 a share.

The Omaha, Neb. -based investment giant recently lowered its holdings in BYD to 4.94% of the company's Hong Kong-listed shares from 5.06%, selling 1.4 million H shares at an average of 246.96 Hong Kong dollars, or about $31.64 each, according to an exchange filing Monday

These were BYDDF which according to google are currently trading at $37.75 usd

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/BYDDF:OTCMKTS?sa=X&ved=

[Bandersnatch]

9 minutes ago, Unamerican said:

As measured/compared how, exactly?? 

 

Original purchase price less residual value = depreciation.

 

Three comparable cars (class D saloons) at a similar price. There is clear evidence that the Accord and Camry both fall to practically zero after 10 years, so how can the cheaper BYD depreciate more?

 

 

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Original purchase price less residual value = depreciation.

 

Three comparable cars (class D saloons) at a similar price. There is clear evidence that the Accord and Camry both fall to practically zero after 10 years, so how can the cheaper BYD depreciate more?

 

 

There is no evidence that the Accord and Camry both fall to practically zero after 10 years

when you look at one2one website 

2014 Toyota Camry from dealers ranging from B495K downwards

Honda Accord 2014 dealers ranging from B609K downwards

B609K and B495K I would not consider those prices to be practically zero

[DavisH]

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I don't see that the prices drop any more than ICE's do...  that would be my concern if buying one, but I've seen no evidence of the prices dropping (and this thread is about the show rooms lowering prices on new models forcing the value of already purchased models to drop - which is a different argument). 

There was recent posting of a low km byd seal for sale at 1M, baht, so that's a 500K drop in less than a year. It's not advertised anymore so I guess someone snapped it up. Losing a 1/3 of value in 1 year is steep. 

[vinny41]

4 hours ago, motdaeng said:

from what i know, some companies are now offering battery warranties longer than 8 years. many studies show that newer batteries can last up to 600,000 km or more. @vinny41 is the expert on ev data.

 

i’m sure that as batteries continue to improve, ev-haters will have to find a new reason to criticize them ...

CATL launches battery with 15-year lifespan for electric buses

The battery has a service life of up to 15 years or 1.5 million kilometers and a warranty of 10 years or 1 million kilometers, CATL said.

The solution has an IP69 rating and can withstand 72 hours of water immersion.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/09/14/catl-launches-battery-electric-buses/

On the Car front

I noticed  posters focus on the number of years of battery warranty forgetting that their are also set maximum number of kilometers that are associated with the battery warranty

In China Cumulative insurance registrations of NEVs with eight-year warranties have amounted to 19.41 million units over the past eight years, but starting this year, their warranties will begin to expire, he said.

Under current warranty standards, most car companies require that the battery's usable capacity fall below 70 percent during the warranty period in order to qualify for a warranty, Li noted.

If the usable capacity of the battery pack falls below 70 percent, there will be safety issues and the car-using experience will be greatly affected, he said.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/03/17/nio-william-li-urges-more-focus-on-battery-life/

[vinny41]

19 minutes ago, DavisH said:

There was recent posting of a low km byd seal for sale at 1M, baht, so that's a 500K drop in less than a year. It's not advertised anymore so I guess someone snapped it up. Losing a 1/3 of value in 1 year is steep. 

There was either a  premium or performance model that was listed in an auction last week  for B870K + fees it didn't sell

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bydthailand/posts/891766329596816/

 

[brfsa2]

21 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Not the companies, 3rd party testing,  And those are conservative estimates.   These based on 2500 cycles, when others state they may get up to 10k cycles.   Surely will outlast the rest of the vehicle.   

 

Then get to repurpose it to your solar system ... 😎

 

 

source

 

source

 

 

 

That's the reason I sold my previous EV which had NMC battery, and got one with LFP battery. 

an LFP battery will outlast the car by a lot, even NMC battery will.

The car manufacturers adds buffer, you only really get to charge to 94-98% (depending on the brand) of the battery capacity, meaning, when you charged to 100% as shown in the dashboard, you have actually charged chemically to the 94%-98% 

with this even NMC batteries can last really long. LFPs also can benefit, but they are already going to outlast the car by 10x. 

 

For example, Tesla buffer is 4%.
2024 Tesla Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor: Has a gross capacity of 78.1 kWh and a net capacity of 75 kWh, giving it a buffer of 3.1 kWh

 

I have a 5kW solar system without battery, because they are way overpriced here. so, what I do, I use my car as the battery!

I basically charge every day during the day at low speed, using a portable 2kWh charger to make sure most of my production goes to the car battery, when the car is not home, it goes back to the grid at 2.2THB.

my card battery stays most of the time between 30% and 80%. 

 

in 10-15 years, most of those battery will be able to be recycled and reused for Solar Systems. They wont even need the cooling since the currents will be so low, solar charging current are at most 5% of the rated current to drive a car motor. (400A-800A vs 20A-40A)

 

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

You might want to check your settings in one2one as there are 2014 Toyota Camry from dealers ranging from B495K downwards

there are 14 2014 Toyota Camry with higher prices that your picture shows

https://www.one2car.com/รถ-สำหรับ-ขาย/toyota/camry/year-2014?page_size=26&page_number=1&sort=price.desc

Similar with Honda Accord 2014 dealers ranging from B609K

There are 26 2014 dealer listed cars with prices higher than your picture snapshot

https://www.one2car.com/en/cars-for-sale/honda/accord/year-2014?page_size=26&sort=price.desc&page_number=2

 

You do realise that a dealer price is more than you will get when you trade it in or sell it privately?

 

An 8+ yr old car sold in Thailand will get you very little ICE or EV. Everyone going on about depreciation of EVs fails to look at ICE car depreciation.

 

EV cars are getting cheaper, that's a good thing in my mind, cheaper to buy new or used, it gets more people into EVs and destroys the barrier to entry "EVs are too expensive" 

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, DavisH said:

There was recent posting of a low km byd seal for sale at 1M, baht, so that's a 500K drop in less than a year. It's not advertised anymore so I guess someone snapped it up. Losing a 1/3 of value in 1 year is steep. 

 

If it was a Dynamic it would have been a 200k drop. 

 

[KhunLA]

44 minutes ago, brfsa2 said:

 

 

 

That's the reason I sold my previous EV which had NMC battery, and got one with LFP battery. 

an LFP battery will outlast the car by a lot, even NMC battery will.

The car manufacturers adds buffer, you only really get to charge to 94-98% (depending on the brand) of the battery capacity, meaning, when you charged to 100% as shown in the dashboard, you have actually charged chemically to the 94%-98% 

with this even NMC batteries can last really long. LFPs also can benefit, but they are already going to outlast the car by 10x. 

 

For example, Tesla buffer is 4%.
2024 Tesla Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor: Has a gross capacity of 78.1 kWh and a net capacity of 75 kWh, giving it a buffer of 3.1 kWh

 

I have a 5kW solar system without battery, because they are way overpriced here. so, what I do, I use my car as the battery!

I basically charge every day during the day at low speed, using a portable 2kWh charger to make sure most of my production goes to the car battery, when the car is not home, it goes back to the grid at 2.2THB.

my card battery stays most of the time between 30% and 80%. 

 

in 10-15 years, most of those battery will be able to be recycled and reused for Solar Systems. They wont even need the cooling since the currents will be so low, solar charging current are at most 5% of the rated current to drive a car motor. (400A-800A vs 20A-40A)

 

MG ZS .. 

 

don't know if that's a buffer or what.  Might be reserve car needs to operate or probably so you can't be an idiot and kill the battery