Illegal land occupation

[Dogmatix]

Another idea might be to use it for collateral with a gold shop or someone and let them foreclose and deal with it themselves.

[ukrules]

9 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Another idea might be to use it for collateral with a gold shop or someone and let them foreclose and deal with it themselves.

 

I was thinking along the same lines but with a far more 'aggressive' debt collector.

 

[w94005m]

5 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

Been involved with 2 encroachment cases.  In the first one a family known to the missus built part of their house on a part of our land.  They came up with many excuses over two years not to negotiate.  Eventually the missus shocked them with a court summons.  They showed up and mediation was ordered by the court.  We offered to sell them the whole piece of land they had encroached part of.  If not, the court would issue an order to evacuate our land, involving demolition of part of their house.  Eventually they agreed to buy our plot for about 50% more than we paid for it.  We gave some time to pay and a daughter was able to borrow from a bank to pay.  So it was relatively easily solved once we took them to court.  They still talk to the MIL in the village which is a surprisingly positive bonus.

 

The second one is much nastier and involves a 20 odd rai plot acquired through sale with the right of redemption.  The owners borrowed money to do funny business in local elections, as learned later, expecting to get a relative elected and be able pay back the debt with corruption money but were outbid in the election and have never been able to pay back all the money they borrowed or redeem sales with right of redemption. Our sale or redemption contract was for only one year and they never paid any agreed interest but asked for it to be extended which the missus for a year out of kindness, even without any payment. They kept saying they were just about to get the money to redeem but never did and came out with tricks like please transfer the title before payment because the bank will only lend after transfer 555.  They asked to rent the plot  and signed an agreement and paid the rent for one or two years.  But then stopped paying and squatted on the land.  After a couple of years of them squatting, the missus hired someone to plant trees on it but they wouldn't let him on to our land.  We sued for eviction and the case is ongoing.  The missus has to fly up for the court hearings and they usually send a lawyer to say they can't make it to waste her time and money.  But now the court has ordered that they can't delay any longer and, if they can't agree to buy the land at market price acceptable to the missus or enter into a new rental contract, an eviction order will issued.  Since it is a Nor Sor Sam Kor green title deed, their plan was obviously to claim squatters rights after using the land for 10 years claiming the owner had abandoned it.  However, the court case frustrates that because it is evidence that the owner wanted the land back and they were squatting illegally with no rights to claim the land in future.   We will take it to the village headman to persuade them to leave the land and let our guy work on it, if we get an eviction notice.  If we can plant timber trees there, it will be useless for their rice growing and timber trees will make it look like it is in constant use by the owner.  Then we can sell it and get out of the situation.  But at least we hope to get a court order to frustrate their squatter rights. 

 

We have incurred about 100k in lawyer fees so far but the market value of the land is over 3m today which we don't want to write off.  In the OP's case, with a 80k investment and 30k in lawyer fees that could rise higher, I would suggest it is better to put it down to experience.

My commiserations on the problems with the second case. I hope you're able to get that resolved.

 

Your noted experiences are vaulable to know about and I appreciate all the details.

 

I was going to agree with you and just write this off and not waste further money on it, but my girlfriend has taken it personally and wants him to summoned, which for the sake of 30,000B I might just do. The principle of this tosser thinking he can just get off scot free makes me inclined to spend just to try to wipe the smile off his face.

[w94005m]

4 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

I was thinking along the same lines but with a far more 'aggressive' debt collector.

 

That would indeed be nice, but would come back against my gf in some sort of negative credit way.

[Yellowtail]

I would take it to court, even if it cost me twice the value. Eff cheaters. 

[Sandboxer]

Don't be a mouse. Boot the chimp. He isn't all that powerful anyway.

[MangoKorat]

On 10/9/2024 at 3:10 PM, Dogmatix said:

In the OP's case, with a 80k investment and 30k in lawyer fees that could rise higher, I would suggest it is better to put it down to experience.

They may have only paid 80K but the land may be worth far more.

[MangoKorat]

On 10/9/2024 at 3:10 PM, Dogmatix said:

Eventually the missus shocked them with a court summons.

Yes, its amazing how they change their train of thought. I've been involved in 2 legal disputes in Thailand - one against an organisation and one against an individual. In both cases, the oppostion dug their heels right in - thinking I was bluffing. Maybe Thai's threaten court action regularly? I only ever do that when I know I'm in the right.

 

On both occasions the other side quickly changed their mind and settled once they received a court summons.

[w94005m]

56 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

They may have only paid 80K but the land may be worth far more.

I believe that is the case, particularly as that was just for the land and there is a decent house on it, which the lawyer has told me my gf now owns too.

[NativeBob]

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

On both occasions the other side quickly changed their mind and settled once they received a court summons.

Love to watch them running from subpoena! 

[MangoKorat]

56 minutes ago, w94005m said:

I believe that is the case, particularly as that was just for the land and there is a decent house on it, which the lawyer has told me my gf now owns too.

FYI, the plot next to my house is for sale - as a guess its about 30m x 20m and the owner is asking 2 million 😁.

[digbeth]

court order and evictions are possible, but it requies cooperation of the police, how influential is the village headman with the local police? what's your standing within the community, even if sucessful can you build a house that's known as the ones who evicted the village head? 

 

if he really has nowhere to go, working something out like letting him rent/lease/usufruct his own house from you until his death would mean you get to keep this land 

[JeffersLos]

Thai problems, for Thais to solve, sit back with a beer.

 

 

Ohh, you gave the money to the GF buy the land.

 

And the lawyer, that's not her old flame or cousin is it. 

 

Come on man, open your eyes. 🙂 

 

 

[w94005m]

22 hours ago, digbeth said:

court order and evictions are possible, but it requies cooperation of the police, how influential is the village headman with the local police? what's your standing within the community, even if sucessful can you build a house that's known as the ones who evicted the village head? 

 

if he really has nowhere to go, working something out like letting him rent/lease/usufruct his own house from you until his death would mean you get to keep this land 

The lawyer apparently is close with the police and suggests it will not be a problem to have them come in once it's gone through the courts. We will see if that is talk.

 

The occupant owns 3 adjacent subplots, so it's not like he will be destitute.

[w94005m]

23 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

Thai problems, for Thais to solve, sit back with a beer.

 

 

Ohh, you gave the money to the GF buy the land.

 

And the lawyer, that's not her old flame or cousin is it. 

 

Come on man, open your eyes. 🙂 

 

 

LMFAO!! Have another beer and keep upping your 'wisdom'

[digbeth]

2 hours ago, w94005m said:

The lawyer apparently is close with the police and suggests it will not be a problem to have them come in once it's gone through the courts. We will see if that is talk.

 

The occupant owns 3 adjacent subplots, so it's not like he will be destitute.

Did the lawyer suggest you offer 'cost of moving' for his inconvenience? 

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, w94005m said:

The lawyer apparently is close with the police and suggests it will not be a problem to have them come in once it's gone through the courts. We will see if that is talk.

 

The occupant owns 3 adjacent subplots, so it's not like he will be destitute.

I am generally a fan of lawyers, but I would negotiate the payment schedule to be back-loaded such that a significant portion is payable after you take possession of the property. 

[w94005m]

14 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I am generally a fan of lawyers, but I would negotiate the payment schedule to be back-loaded such that a significant portion is payable after you take possession of the property. 

Many thanks. I wasn't aware that was possible.

 

[w94005m]

17 hours ago, digbeth said:

Did the lawyer suggest you offer 'cost of moving' for his inconvenience? 

Sorry, I don't understand?

[digbeth]

2 hours ago, w94005m said:

Sorry, I don't understand?

sorry, that was worded poorly, 

I mean offer the old owner some money to 'move out' this is usually called moving expense in eviction, yes, ideally you shouldn't need to pay anything to kick him out, but it might end up cheaper and saves time while being amicable 

[bunnydrops]

The land that he owns next door-- is it worth a trade?

[Yellowtail]

10 hours ago, w94005m said:

Many thanks. I wasn't aware that was possible.

 

You will likely have to negotiate for it.  

[w94005m]

On 10/13/2024 at 2:27 PM, bunnydrops said:

The land that he owns next door-- is it worth a trade?

I'd be 100% sure that is not a consideration. It's a bigger plot with a bigger house.

[w94005m]

On 10/13/2024 at 1:10 PM, digbeth said:

sorry, that was worded poorly, 

I mean offer the old owner some money to 'move out' this is usually called moving expense in eviction, yes, ideally you shouldn't need to pay anything to kick him out, but it might end up cheaper and saves time while being amicable 

That's an interesting thought.  We'll keep that in reserve as a last option, after giving him time with the buy, rent. move out or legal action choices.