Real estate agent (and previous owner) omit to tell one little detail, liable for damages ?

[john donson]

A few months ago, I needed to move to a new place, after divorce.

 

I found a place with different buildings in a row, deep in a soi.

 

I hate noise, street noise, neighbors, etc...

 

So I found a place that was in good condition, far from the street, could not hear the hum of traffic, on a high and a corner unit.

 

I thought I found something like and instead of paying rent somewhere else, I bought it.

 

6 weeks I enjoyed peace and quietness, till one day, planes start flying over MY building.

 

I am near the airport, but the usual route was over the busy road and it did not bother me.

 

Apparently my new bought condo is in the flight path of ... the 3rd Suvi runway and they started 'test' flights since last week.

 

The agent that sold this place did not mention anything about it. Neither did the owner but both knew about this, because via the group line of the building, there were talks about compensation for the noise, which the old owner apparently registered and is now about to get the compensation, even they are not the owner anymore.

 

The juristic office was inviting people to go get their check or get their papers checked first... Blue book (lol), house registration...

 

I did not go try yet to exchange my blue book, with old owners name,  for a yellow one, as I red that many ampurs just make it very difficult to impossible by demand things like a birth certificate... not about to travel to the old country just for that...the embassy told me before that they cannot provide such 'service' even they have access to the register, I presume.

 

Apparently the whole 'deadline' to register is also latest next Tuesday, while everything is closed for remembrance of the old king day...

 

I hear many people already preparing the :   never buy, always rent claim... yes...  If renting, I would have cut my losses...

 

What would be my chances to take a lawyer and sue the old owner and the agent for omitting to tell they knew about the flight path or the 3rd runway, specially they are about to get the compensation for my noise pollution, loss of value of the condo, as who in their right mind would not buy a condo with the constant noise ?

 

 

 

 

[CanadaSam]

TV fools most people into thinking court cases are the way to go for justice.

 

It is not.  It starts with huge fees to the lawyer, possibly ends in a court paper victory for you, and then begins the task of trying to collect the payment, which rarely succeeds.

 

So you are often out the original money, plus legal fees, and associated costs of attending all the hearings etc., putting you far deeper in the hole.

 

I advise immediately selling the place, even at a loss, if you don't want to look at double glazing and other measures to lower outside noise.

[madone]

never seen a better example of caveat emptor

[G_Money]

Owner not liable.  Nothing to do with the building or unit.  Leaking water pipes perhaps.  
 

Government decision to use the area for a new runway, nope.

 

Buyer beware.

[Gottfrid]

5 hours ago, john donson said:

What would be my chances to take a lawyer and sue the old owner and the agent for omitting to tell they knew about the flight path or the 3rd runway, specially they are about to get the compensation for my noise pollution, loss of value of the condo, as who in their right mind would not buy a condo with the constant noise ?

Your chances would be approximately 1% against the old owners 99% chance. It was your work to check development of the surroundings, and be aware before you bought the place. Has nothing to do with the place you bought and the old owner.

As for the last part of the question. Apparently you bought it. 

[khunPer]

5 hours ago, john donson said:

I did not go try yet to exchange my blue book, with old owners name,  for a yellow one, as I red that many ampurs just make it very difficult to impossible by demand things like a birth certificate... not about to travel to the old country just for that...the embassy told me before that they cannot provide such 'service' even they have access to the register, I presume.

 

Apparently the whole 'deadline' to register is also latest next Tuesday, while everything is closed for remembrance of the old king day...

 

I hear many people already preparing the :   never buy, always rent claim... yes...  If renting, I would have cut my losses...

 

What would be my chances to take a lawyer and sue the old owner and the agent for omitting to tell they knew about the flight path or the 3rd runway, specially they are about to get the compensation for my noise pollution, loss of value of the condo, as who in their right mind would not buy a condo with the constant noise ?

You cannot "exchange" the blue house book, it follows the property. However, only Thai citizens – and foreigner's granted permanent residency – can be registered in a blue house book. Aliens can apply for registration in a "yellow house book for aliens", which is just a proof of registered address. The procedure for being registered in a yellow house book can be anything from easy to difficult in various places.

 

It's the buyer's responsibility to do due diligence before closing a deal, like checking area for planned issues that might effect the property, often buyer's lawyer can do it for the buyer. I don't think you can gain anything from suing agent or previous owner, apart from a huge bill from the lawyer.

[bkk6060]

CUt the losses sell it now before that plane noise gets much worse.  Then, rent!

[1FinickyOne]

I am so sad reading this... sometimes there is no fair or decent alternative... This could have happened to anyone. I also prefer buying to renting and surely could have fallen into the same predicament. 

 

I hope things turn around for you in the future. 

[soi3eddie]

 

@john donson As others have said, sell now. Even at  a loss. Zero to be gained from trying any legal action. It will just make you worse off.

Out of curiosity, what did you pay for the place? Couldn't have been much if so close to an airport.

 

[mstevens]

You are being completely and utterly unrealistic in thinking that the previous owner had to disclose something that you say didn't start until several weeks after he had sold the condo to you. It's a sad situation for sure, but don't blame the previous owner for this.

[john donson]

don't blame the owner, that registered long ago, for compensation for future noise pollution, but not mention anything about it to a potential buyer ?   

 

Selling now, 8.8% land department taxes to start with, an extra loss on top, plus finding a thai that will not be bothered by the noise ?

 

I thought I found an ok place, in order, neat, corner unit on top, the rare find... 

 

I am realistic to know my chances, none to ziltch...

 

thanks for the replies

 

[Brick Top]

This is the problem of buying property in Thailand , its unfortunately Buyer Beware , in the UK this would have been picked up on the "searches" that the solicitors do and thats why it takes 3 to 6 months to complete a sale in the UK now. I just came back from the UK (havent been there for 10 yesrs) to complete the sale of some building land , the sale was agree in December 2023 and only completed in September 2024. The buyers solicitor drove me insane with question after question , i was strongly advised by my solicitor to be 100% truthful in my replies or face legal consequences in the future. 

I have bought and sold around 50 Condominiums and Villas and Townhouses here over the past 23 years and often the sales have been completed in 2 to 30 days , with the layweres not checking nothing only the title.

[itsari]

Sellers in Thailand are expected to show good faith when property is involved.

If the seller has not mentioned the plans of a change on a flight path that hardly shows good faith.

Worth asking a property lawyer I think. 

No large cost to find out your legal position 

[thailand49]

In Thailand even with law in place it is tough if nor impossible. You seem to know a lot have you confronted the agent and owner Particular the compensation.

Regardless of the ownership have you any information who the compensation is coming from and contact them asap.

In Real Rstate particularly California there are lots of disclosure laws for agents and owners cases decided in Arbitration Thailand good luck is there an agency that monitors their action? 

Does the agent work for someone the boss? 

Many times in Thailand rattling cages help.

Last cases in States where this happens compensation is to have all windows refitted to Triple Pane it dors help a lot.

 

[jacob29]

12 hours ago, mstevens said:

 but don't blame the previous owner for this.

Absolutely blame the previous owner. It may be perfectly legal, there may be no recourse, but it's still poor behaviour. Pretty well guaranteed they knew they were stiffing the new owner.

 

I can't see why the previous owner would (should) receive the compensation under the circumstances, seems like that aspect may be challenged in court - but doubt the sum involved would make it worthwhile. 

[Speedhump]

This 'don't ever buy' thing makes me laugh. 10 years rental of a 3 bed 3 bath pool villa would have cost me around 3 million baht. I bought the house instead at a good price of 4.5 million (market was higher but seller was a son working out parents' probate) . I'm quids in. 😂

[Dave0206]

1 hour ago, jacob29 said:

Absolutely blame the previous owner. It may be perfectly legal, there may be no recourse, but it's still poor behaviour. Pretty well guaranteed they knew they were stiffing the new owner.

 

I can't see why the previous owner would (should) receive the compensation under the circumstances, seems like that aspect may be challenged in court - but doubt the sum involved would make it worthwhile. 

I should assume previous owner got less for the property so that would be his claim 🤔 

[thailand49]

15 hours ago, mstevens said:

You are being completely and utterly unrealistic in thinking that the previous owner had to disclose something that you say didn't start until several weeks after he had sold the condo to you. It's a sad situation for sure, but don't blame the previous owner for this.

Not taking sides but I believe based on his accounts the former owner knew so did the agent since the filing for compensation happened prior to sale. 

They also just finished the runway started testing and operation reason no noise when he moved in until now.

[thailand49]

7 hours ago, john donson said:

don't blame the owner, that registered long ago, for compensation for future noise pollution, but not mention anything about it to a potential buyer ?   

 

Selling now, 8.8% land department taxes to start with, an extra loss on top, plus finding a thai that will not be bothered by the noise ?

 

I thought I found an ok place, in order, neat, corner unit on top, the rare find... 

 

I am realistic to know my chances, none to ziltch...

 

thanks for the replies

 

I curious as to how bad the noise is that you are selling?

Is the plane sailing by your window where you can flip the pilot off likevthe old Hong Kong airport.

[geisha]

Stories like this come to light when floods happen , as in France at the moment or UK at a families property . Even in these countries where lawyers actually do their work, disasters happen. Climate change. In France people living near rivers , the sea, are currently suffering from storms that that have never happened before . In the UK my niece nearly lost her housé because an old mine flooded a few miles up a hill and flooded the the whole town . Getting the Coal Board to pay up took over 2 years . Before buying you have to be so careful , check surroundings etc. Neighbors ( especially in Thailand and karaoke nights) . Talk to the neighbors too. I think in Thailand you have to do it all yourself. 

[Elkski]

That is a bum rap.   Just hope karma takes care of this

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Speedhump said:

This 'don't ever buy' thing makes me laugh. 10 years rental of a 3 bed 3 bath pool villa would have cost me around 3 million baht. I bought the house instead at a good price of 4.5 million (market was higher but seller was a son working out parents' probate) . I'm quids in. 😂

       Totally agree.  Thank goodness my spouse and I didn't follow the 'don't buy, rent' mantra when we moved to Thailand.  We started by buying a studio condo in 2010 and now, 14 years later, have worked our way up to a new 4-bedroom pool villa in Pattaya, on the Darkside, which we own mortgage-free.  

       This type of house rents for about 70,000 baht a month.  So, to live in this type of property, that's what we'd be shelling out each month to a landlord, with nothing to show for it except keeping a roof over our heads. 

      Monthly expenses would be 70,000 baht rent plus around 4,500 electric plus 1,500 pool guy plus around 2,000 for water, internet, Netflix, trash pickup   Total around 78,000 baht.  By owning, our monthly expense is only around 8,000 baht, leaving 70,000 baht each month to do something else with.   Nice.

       I'll be the first to say that renting can have some advantages, especially if one is only in a place for a short time or, perhaps, is not certain where exactly they want to be, or want to move frequently and try different areas or projects, etc.   Some have the rental mentality, while others have the owner mentality.  Whatever floats your boat.  There is no one size fits all. 

       For me, I learned early on that I had the owner mentality.  I also learned early on that, with my low salary for most of my career, the only money I had available for investment was the  chunk of money that was going for rent each month, enriching the landlord but doing absolutely nothing for my financials.

      With little in savings and only that monthly chunk of rent money to invest, and not wanting to live on the street, that left real estate as my one avenue of investment available.   So, that's what I did in the US during my working years there; buying a condo, living in it while I fixed it up, and then selling it.  Taking the profit and buying another slightly better condo the next time.   Mortgage/taxes/condo fee on the condo were about the same as what I had been paying in rent and there were also some tax advantages. 

      I chuckle when posters often say, instead of buying, rent and invest that $100,000, $200,000, or whatever you would spend on buying a property.  That was not an option for me--no $100,000 in my pocket to invest during my Wonder Years.   (Wonder if I'll have any money left at the end of the month.)

     What I had was a minimum down payment--I think $10,000 for the first condo I bought, half borrowed from Dad.  What I had was a low-paying but steady job and a steady budget of around $1500 a month for a roof over my head.  I could pay the landlord with it, or myself.  I chose me.  

     

[Sigmund]

Sell it and fast...even if you case reaches court, the lawyers will swindle you out of all that's left. Sell.

 

Even with new property, people have got cheated, despite the nice fancy looks of the pool villa around Hua Hin area for instance. Plumbing issues, wall cracks, faulty electrical wiring and the whole package sold in developpments run by farang developpers. As anyplace, all nice and friendly during the payment steps and once delivered, it's "go-to-hell".

[ChrisKC]

This topic has some comments suggesting the Poster sells and accept a loss but in order to sell a property that he now knows to be under a new flight path of a major International Airport, he might feel the need to conceal that fact from potential buyers that was denied him!

 

The gratuitous offers of advice of "caveat emptor" always seems to appear in hindsight.

[it is what it is]

10 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

This topic has some comments suggesting the Poster sells and accept a loss but in order to sell a property that he now knows to be under a new flight path of a major International Airport, he might feel the need to conceal that fact from potential buyers that was denied him!

 

The gratuitous offers of advice of "caveat emptor" always seems to appear in hindsight.

 

The gratuitous offers of advice of "caveat emptor" always seems to appear in hindsight.

 

sure, often, but not exclusively, and this is because issues appear after the fact, so it is in hindsight.

 

 

[tomazbodner]

I have planes flying past my window (DMK, not BKK) but I don't hear them. So it's definitely possible to sound proof the unit not to hear them.

 

Obviously it's an extra expense to use double glazed windows, but it'll help with aircon bills as well. Maybe you could try that first, unless the whole building is shaking when planes fly by?

[Tailwagsdog]

It was common knowledge the 3rd runway was ready to take flights soon, a google map search would have shown the areas to avoid if you wanted to be close to Suva airport.  The answers were a few clicks away ......

[john donson]

The row of building is in a soi.

 

I am in building 6 out of 7.

 

Terrible road noise for building 1, also planes flying over the busy noisy main road.

 

Reason my condo is in building 6.  No more street noise. It is a good walk. It was calm and peaceful. The planes flying over the main road was very little background noise at best.

 

3rd runway, in test phase since a bit more of a week, fly directly over the condo.   My corner unit has glass windows for balcony, main bedroom, bathroom second bathroom, and as a corner unit at the end of the hallway, more windows for aeration of the floor on both sides.

 

The old owner had applied long ago (months) for the noise damage compensation.  They did not lower the price.  They did not disclose this earth shattering for me hidden 'pleasure' to hear planes flying over, day and night... 3 am, cheaper departure slots I presume, resuming at 6 am

 

2.5 million baht, 2 bedroom condo, in case you wonder I paid ziltch for a shoebox.   Peanuts probably for many rich pensioners, not for me.  Expecting to pay 8.8 tax (selling before owning 5 years, special business tax) , IF I would manage to find a buyer. Kinda hard to hide planes flyiing over, every 60-90 seconds.

 

Bad luck, stupidity...  If I had waited a few months...but I had to move out after divorce settlement and I was thinking long term , found this place after many trash condo shoebox visits, a place that was nice and actually liked.

 

Looking for that real estate lawyer, at least his opinion... I know, they love to proceed and get paid in advance and even if the courts would rule in my  favor, that is no guarantee to get the actual damages paid.

 

 

[geisha]

On 10/11/2024 at 3:34 PM, tomazbodner said:

I have planes flying past my window (DMK, not BKK) but I don't hear them. So it's definitely possible to sound proof the unit not to hear them.

 

Obviously it's an extra expense to use double glazed windows, but it'll help with aircon bills as well. Maybe you could try that first, unless the whole building is shaking when planes fly by?

Unfortunately, he will not know the impact until  the runway is finished and planes start taking off and landing.  ( max 

noise level). 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tomazbodner]

6 hours ago, geisha said:

Unfortunately, he will not know the impact until  the runway is finished and planes start taking off and landing.  ( max 

noise level).

True. Here it's mostly B737 and A320, relatively small planes. Would be very different with a massive 4 engine can flying by.