Why Are You Even Here? The Surprising Attitudes of Some Expats in Thailand

[connda]

12 hours ago, CharlieH said:

This begs the obvious question: Why are you here?

To troll bars, get drunk, and "boom-boom" bar-girls.  Isn't that why all expats are here? 

"One night in Bangkok and the world's your oyster
The bars are temples but their pearls ain't free
You'll find a god in every golden cloister
And if you're lucky, then the god's a she
I can feel an angel slidin' up to me."

[JamesPhuket10]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think it was not mentioned in the article above, even if we try to be just like Thais and mix with Thais we will most likely still always be seen as farang outsiders.

 

As far as I am concerned this is not bad, because as outsiders we don't have to play by all the Thai rules and norms.

But I think everybody who comes here and tries to integrate should be aware of this fact.

 

 

You are right to a certain extent, the funny thing is according to the majority of Thais we all come from the same country, which is "farangLand", it does not matter if we are Russian, English, American, etc we are all farangs, we all have the same culture, I find it funny so don't take it as I am complaining. 

 

Also, the article is a little bit simplistic, there are lots of overlapping cultures in Thailand, the Thais in the south see themselves as completely different culturally to say the people from Isaan and vice versa, they even have completely different dialects and languages and would not understand each other if they were speaking in their local dialects to each other.

 

I laughed once as I knew an Australian in Phuket for a few years and he went to Thai language school a few times a week, after a year he said he had learned a lot of standard Thai but it was not much use with his wife and her friends as they all spoke Laos (Isaan) to each other.

 

Well-off Educated Thais do not mix with the less educated ones unless they are "conchies" (spelling?) working for them, even then, they eat at different tables as is the case when they are on a car trip with a Thai full time driver and they stop to eat.

 

I have seen that firsthand on many occasions.

 

In the late 1980's I was sitting in a very large house in Bangkok, it was owned by the ex-vice-president of Thailand, we were there to invite him to our upcoming marriage ceremony in Bangkok, a "conchie", came into the room with a tray of refreshments for us but saw we were sitting down so she got on her knees, walked on her knees across the large room and presented us with the drinks, I was shocked but the ex-president took it as being normal. 

 

Do Thais become very British for example when they live in the UK for decades, do they fit in and learn how to talk straight, become orderly and logical, do they heck like, they take what suits them just as the rest of us do, I have also seen this first-hand many times.  

 

So as long as we accept we will never be seen as or be accepted as a Thai, have to continue to get annual visa extensions, and 90-day reporting then all is fine but I do not intend to sit and look through rose-tinted glasses thinking I have been accepted as a local, that will never happen.

 

But as I said I have accepted this as a fact, nowhere in the world is perfect, 99% of life here is great. 

 

Leave your wealth, and money in your home country as it is almost guaranteed we will have to go back there when very old, don't do as many do and burn the bridges to the only country which will look after them to some level when that old age point arrives. 

 

 

[JamesPhuket10]

8 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

On the food thing, a couple of pages ago.

 

In Thailand I eat Thai food 100%

 

In the US I don't think my wife has ever eaten Western food at home, only at restaurants.

 

Then we get in the terrible argument that sometimes I do want to eat western food at home, but she's got this weird thing that she wants cook for me and not let me cook what I want.

 

My wise lekung son said to me recently "when in Thailand you do the Thai thing for Mom. In America you do what the Hell she tells you"

 

The joys of being married to a Thai!

 

Oh no, not another one please, no it is not standard for Thai women to be the dominant partner, that job is left up to American women as I saw on the two occasions I worked in the USA.

 

My Thai partner cooks both Thai and Farang food at home and she and I decide ourselves what we each want to eat. 

 

Have you not noticed a large number of Western restaurants all around Thailand, they are frequented by Thais mostly as they are well outside of the tourist areas. 

 

[JamesPhuket10]

44 minutes ago, connda said:

To troll bars, get drunk, and "boom-boom" bar-girls.  Isn't that why all expats are here? 

"One night in Bangkok and the world's your oyster
The bars are temples but their pearls ain't free
You'll find a god in every golden cloister
And if you're lucky, then the god's a she
I can feel an angel slidin' up to me."

 

Erm, no!

 

[it is what it is]

Thailand, with its stunning beaches, warm climate, and unique culture,

 

stunning beaches? my sister lives in australia where even the most bog standard beach knocks anything i've seen in thailand right out of the park, only someone who has never been to a decent beach would call thai beaches stunning.

 

isn't every culture unique?

[Thingamabob]

Friendly people, warm weather. good food and, in my case and many others, a lovely, caring wife. The whiners and moaners would likely be whining and moaning in any country, including their own.

[spidermike007]

Yeah I know a lot of guys that not only don't seem to like many Thais, they don't seem to have much respect for Thai people or culture. Fortunately I really like Thailand, I consider every day I spend in Thailand to be a gift, I wake up every morning feeling really good about being here, and I enjoy my interactions with Thai people. I like them, I respect them, I have affection for them, and I find many Thais to be lovely souls, love their sense of humor and playfulness, and I'm thankful for my attitude and it sure makes life here alot more delightful. 

[Gknrd]

Goes both ways, they want the money and we want to live here. Really I don't see a problem. The Thai's have a whole culture dedicated to foreigners. Kind of f stupid topic IMO.

[fredwiggy]

5 hours ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

 

Oh no, not another one please, no it is not standard for Thai women to be the dominant partner, that job is left up to American women as I saw on the two occasions I worked in the USA.

 

My Thai partner cooks both Thai and Farang food at home and she and I decide ourselves what we each want to eat. 

 

Have you not noticed a large number of Western restaurants all around Thailand, they are frequented by Thais mostly as they are well outside of the tourist areas. 

 

American women aren't the dominant partner the large majority of the time. What they do is run the household most of the time, meaning making sure the kids get to school, cooking, cleaning the house. This isn't all of the houses though, as many men cook, clean, raise the kids etc, as I did. Teamwork is best wherever you live, with not one taking over besides the man being the head of household, besides single parent woman households. You saw only two out of millions, which doesn't give you a real picture of what goes on there. My ex tried controlling me here, and that is another reason we divorced.

[fredwiggy]

2 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

Friendly people, warm weather. good food and, in my case and many others, a lovely, caring wife. The whiners and moaners would likely be whining and moaning in any country, including their own.

Your first sentence is true. If you choose a good partner, your whole life is better. Those who aren't so lucky and who end up with a bad one, live a life full of anxiety, abuse, greed, lies and deception. Attraction did me in, as it does many here, and it's why Thailand left a bad taste in our mouths.

 

It isn't the country, food, some people or culture which is bad. It's certain things about certain people which ruins it. The schools are definitely below standards, and if you have a child here, better to take them out or send them to school overseas after enrolling them in a private international one here. Guarantees a much better future for them. The roads are about the most dangerous on earth, and will continue indefinitely this way until enough people in charge do something about it. The pollution from burning is also a major problem, especially for those with upper respiratory problems, and this also won't change anytime soon. Also the lack of care for human life , animals and looking at women as inferior here.

 

Some see things just how they are, and some are blinded to what's actually going on because they have that good partner, rarely leave their villages or homes, and haven't run into trouble, yet. People like to see bad things change, and it isn't whining if they are things that affect much of the population, meaning the average locals and expats. I myself never whined about anything living in the US, and I'll be returning there none too soon, with my daughter, because of some of the things that go on here which will affect her future, and also mine.

Edited October 12 by fredwiggy

[Presnock]

17 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

I talk to 2 of her teachers because they speak English. My daughter isn't learning much in a Thai school anyway, as they are far from advanced like those in the US. This is one reason I will bring her to the US before she's 10, so she has a chance of a decent future she wouldn't have here. That's great parenting, staying here until we can both leave, instead of me leaving her here and going back myself.Assuming yet again.

Agree that local schools (not international) are just about a total waste of time.  We tried that for 5 years with our daughter.  But, we also spent a lot of time with her leaning at home.  Finally we went to NEW sathit school, ultra modern buildings  BUT locally controlled education so a complete wasted year.  Within 3 years every child except the K group had been pulled out by their parents as a wasted time.  Not a cheap tuition school either and we were offered free tuition to stay but opted instead for the Chiang Mai International School - best decision we ever made for her education.  That school taught her how learning can be fun and she graduated with 4 languages (Chinese, Korean, English and Thai) and is enjoying college at the number one school in Thailand (plus whenever on a multi-week break at the number one university in Seoul).  Right now she doesn't plan on working here in any capacity and says that is what college is for, to determine what kind of career one might pursue.  I am fairly fluent in Thai but that was just wasted on any of her Thai teachers or school  managers.  THEY control the school and  want to let farangs and other parents know that fact!  IMHO anyway.

[pomchop]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Yeah I know a lot of guys that not only don't seem to like many Thais, they don't seem to have much respect for Thai people or culture. Fortunately I really like Thailand, I consider every day I spend in Thailand to be a gift, I wake up every morning feeling really good about being here, and I enjoy my interactions with Thai people. I like them, I respect them, I have affection for them, and I find many Thais to be lovely souls, love their sense of humor and playfulness, and I'm thankful for my attitude and it sure makes life here alot more delightful. 

well said...i also laugh more in thailand in a week than i laugh in america in a month...if one bothers to notice the thai people love to joke around and laugh..for many it is all about sanuk..fun...if you bother to learn just a few thai words  the benefits are wonderful...tell a thai old lady vendor she is very beautiful and watch her light up and giggle etc.

[macca3248]

If you are not happy  ,pack your bags and go back to where you came from ! you will soon realize just how good Thailand is and why you left the old country in the first place .YOU are the PROBLEM ,not Thailand !

 

[theshu25]

19 hours ago, mokwit said:

How do you know they don't speak Thai when this is an English language forum?

 

How do you know this from their posts on AN?

 

Again, how do you know this from their posts?

 

Doesn't their wife drive them?

Agree,not much this total know all does not know.

[retarius]

I dislike this extremely judgemental article by the OP.

 

If people wish to integrate, let them integrate. I don't. 

If people wish to learn the language, let them try. I did try for the first 6 to 9 months   I was here (formal lessons 3 times a week) but cannot communicate effectively outside my household where people don't speak Bangkok Thai, but Isaan language and intonation. People over 50 don't 'pick up' languages very well.

 

If people wish to enjoy what passes for culture here, then bully for them. If they don't, well, equally bully for them. If they have a valid visa to stay here, then they can stay, they can integrate or not, they can learn the language or not, and they can eat Thai food or not. And if they wish to comment on Thai culture or living here then they are entitled to do so and not have someone sneering at them in articles on AN.

 

 

[MalcolmB]

16 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

They went nuts for that farang who kicked the Thai on the back for sitting on the steps at the beach.

Was hardly a riot running around burning cars, attacking police and looting was it?

Much more sensible.

[MalcolmB]

10 hours ago, JamesPhuket10 said:

conchies

Anyone know what this word is ?

con= person??? 
curious

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

Anyone know what this word is ?

con= person??? 
curious

I thought conchie was person born in Florida or a conscientious objector.

[Thingamabob]

23 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

Well said Charlie. You have hit the nail on the head.

 

The most whining expats are without a doubt the ones that have not bothered to learn Thai. Always moaning. And endlessly complaining.

 

They are basically illiterate,deaf and mute. So of course they will be frustrated, especially with Thais who can not understand a word they are saying, they don’t have a clue what is going on around them. 

And no doubt the Thais must be left shaking their heads at these buffaloes.

 

Often they keep repeated the English word over and over again while pulling faces and using hand signals which just causes even more confusion. And exposing themselves to be the fools that they are.

 

And they completely socially isolated at social events such as weddings etc.

Unable to perform basic tasks without relying on their Thai wife who they expect to be a mind reader. Always with an angry face on in the Land of Smiles.

 

And ironically despite living here for years or even decades and not being able to string a simple sentence together, being unable to ask for something basic in a polite way they convince themselves that the Thai people are stupid and rude.

 

Every Thai I met who was living in England could speak English.

 

i would add that many feel entitled because they are spending their money in Thailand, mostly on prostitutes, but they feel that all Thais should lay out the red carpet for them.

 

It also leads to a paranoia, they think the Thais are talking about them, plotting against them, when the Thais are not even thinking about them.

 

Add that they can not read road safety signs, or other warnings and they become a danger on the roads.

 

They should be banned.

Unfair to buffaloes...

[BritManToo]

23 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

Every Thai I met who was living in England could speak English.

But Thailands official 2nd language is English, and everyone in Thailand gets 8 years of English lessons.

In England our second language would be French (or Arabic), nobody learns Thai.

[George Aylesham]

 Many thanks for this morning's masterclass in having a go at farangs.

Guilty as you have suggested - I don't speak Thai in spite of studying it for many months before arriving here. But once it became clear that my poor hearing did not allow me to distinguish between the different tones I limited my efforts  to learning a sufficient number of words to express thanks and to repeat some of the common courtesies.

Yes, I most certainly do rely on my Thai wife for many of the needs for hospital visits, immigration, and the hundred other times when Thai is essential. But in turn she relies on me for the hundreds of household chores falling to men: taking out the rubbish, washing up, bed making - in fact what is called the mutual support between a husband and wife. In a word we look after each other. I never miss a chance to tell others about the beauty of the country we live in, the superb roads, good food and excellent healthcare. I'm not starry eyed - living in Chiang Mai the annual (mainly home grown) air pollution and the absence of any decent public transport both irritate me. But the people are courteous towards me and have made me welcome here. The farangs you talk about are simply the ones who speak the most loudly; not the majority who have managed to live happily here in the company of their hosts.

[NoshowJones]

On 10/11/2024 at 11:39 AM, MalcolmB said:

Well said Charlie. You have hit the nail on the head.

 

The most whining expats are without a doubt the ones that have not bothered to learn Thai. Always moaning. And endlessly complaining.

 

They are basically illiterate,deaf and mute. So of course they will be frustrated, especially with Thais who can not understand a word they are saying, they don’t have a clue what is going on around them. 

And no doubt the Thais must be left shaking their heads at these buffaloes.

 

Often they keep repeated the English word over and over again while pulling faces and using hand signals which just causes even more confusion. And exposing themselves to be the fools that they are.

 

And they completely socially isolated at social events such as weddings etc.

Unable to perform basic tasks without relying on their Thai wife who they expect to be a mind reader. Always with an angry face on in the Land of Smiles.

 

And ironically despite living here for years or even decades and not being able to string a simple sentence together, being unable to ask for something basic in a polite way they convince themselves that the Thai people are stupid and rude.

 

Every Thai I met who was living in England could speak English.

 

i would add that many feel entitled because they are spending their money in Thailand, mostly on prostitutes, but they feel that all Thais should lay out the red carpet for them.

 

It also leads to a paranoia, they think the Thais are talking about them, plotting against them, when the Thais are not even thinking about them.

 

Add that they can not read road safety signs, or other warnings and they become a danger on the roads.

 

They should be banned.

"Thai people are stupid and rude." The majority of Thai people are stupid, and I make no apologies for saying that, the reason, the majority of Thai people drive cars or ride motorbikes. The dreadful road statistics?? I rest my case.

The majority of Thai people are not rude, they are decent, honest and very helpful.

[NoshowJones]

On 10/11/2024 at 11:49 AM, MalcolmB said:

There are laws in place for that situation.

Really?? and just who enforces these laws?

[MalcolmB]

17 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

Really?? and just who enforces these laws?

Royal Thai Police Force

[MalcolmB]

32 minutes ago, George Aylesham said:

household chores falling to men: taking out the rubbish, washing up, bed making

That is women’s work in Thailand.

Not only are you not learning Thai but you are setting a bad example., spoiling the women.

[NoshowJones]

11 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

Royal Thai Police Force

So you are saying that the RTP are actually out on the roads enforcing the rules of the road????

[thecyclist]

23 hours ago, pomchop said:

Because there are lots of world class WHINERS who can't seem to find a positive thing to say about anything anytime anywhere.  I am so sick of hearing Ameicans and dear leader whine over and over about how horrible america is and how unfair it all is...even the big liar/loser who whines nonstop about how horrible it all is and how rigged everything is against him....is in spite of being handed several hundred million on a silver platter.

 

Thai people seem to me to be able to generally get on with their lives and play the cards they were dealt without all the excuses and non stop whining.  Maybe many expats here might someday realize that the reality is for most that they have little to whine about...if you were born a white american male you were born on third base.  

I totally agree with the first part about the orange whiner in chief and his entourage. Nobody whines as much as a half-witted wannabe fascist dictator. 

But Thais whine a lot too. Yes, they get on with their lives, we all do in the end. But they do whine, and they talk a lot about money and salaries, what they make compared to others. 

And their leaders are world champions at blaming others, at passing the buck. 

 

[Kinok Farang]

If you can't make a Thai understand you, just shout louder and keep repeating it.In English of course.

[pomchop]

2 hours ago, thecyclist said:

I totally agree with the first part about the orange whiner in chief and his entourage. Nobody whines as much as a half-witted wannabe fascist dictator. 

But Thais whine a lot too. Yes, they get on with their lives, we all do in the end. But they do whine, and they talk a lot about money and salaries, what they make compared to others. 

And their leaders are world champions at blaming others, at passing the buck. 

 

at least thais who whine about how little they are paid have a real problem...people who inheriet millions of dollars  (hell i would be thrilled with a few thousand bucks) and grow up in the west as  a white male have very little to whine about compared to a poor thai person....a lot of the expat whiners need to go work in the rice paddies of isaan for a years, live in a mosquito invested bamboo hut and live on rice with a 4th grade education and be expected to support their family forever...might convince them that they have it pretty damn good.

[Presnock]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

But Thailands official 2nd language is English, and everyone in Thailand gets 8 years of English lessons.

In England our second language would be French (or Arabic), nobody learns Thai.

Those  may show a report card with 8 years of English but a very subdued bunch of lessons taught by a semi-literate Thai English teacher.  Even in the schools with farang teachers, the Thai English teachers normally are not allowed to get any help from the farage English speakers.  I experienced this with my daughter, in on homework assignment of 15 questions on pronouns, 9 had nothing there on pronouns.  I corrected the homework in RED ink and put a note in Thai that if the teacher didn't understand let me know and I would help her.  She said that the homework papers are prepared by the school director and cannot be changed nor discussed withe the farang teachers.  Needless to say we departed that school fairly soon thereafter.  It was basically the same at every Thai school that we enrolled our daughter though each had great reputations and waiting lists to get into the schools.  After 6TH grade we  enrolled her in an international school.  She is now in college doing great, Native English and Thai, has taught basic Chinese at a  different HS, and has tested at level 4 in self taught Korean  language.   On term breaks from the #1 university in Thailand, she takes courses at the #1 university in Seoul, Korea (received outstanding achievement award  in Korean language).  Ranked in the upper 20% in here college class.  When  Ifirst  came to Thailand in 1972 I don't recall anyone speaking any English at  all and it was necessary that one speak Thai to get anywhere here.  Times  have changed but their language training hasn't...If they join BRICS, guess they might change to Chinese Language.