Immigration - totally useless

[Goethe]

On 11/7/2024 at 4:06 PM, quake said:

 

100 baht, that sounds a bit cheap to me.

Ps was it a typo ?

 

 

 

The fee charged by agents ranges from 0 to 500 baht, depending on the agent. I pay 200 baht and am happy to do so.

[DrJack54]

Some trolling posts removed 

[HuaHinNew]

Interesting comments both positive and negative re TM47 online 90 day reporting

 

Well without being too forward, any comments that indicate the Online 90 days reporting system is great and works all the time for me, those individuals can consider themselves very lucky.

 

I can speak with some authority as a long time user of all the Online 90-Day Reporting solutions and as an IT technology specialist of some 40 years in the business.

 

We often say in the IT technology field "you get what you pay for" and even though the current Web based TM47 solution is far improved over the older versions, it is still wanting in basic design, integration and support, features and functions.

 

If you follow closely the history of developments, more recent announcements were a revamp of the Online Web based solution which was down for many days due to the upgrade and the latest announcement about integration work currently being undertaking between systems.

 

To date, none of these Immigration systems, to my knowledge, communicate real-time data with each other, not an easy task as some are legacy systems and others are current technology systems, all potentially in different software languages.

 

I found the development company for this current Online solution digging through the backend of the code.

 

As a person that develops these types of solutions over many years, I know all the pitfalls of what users encounter and how to build robust software around these issues to mitigate user mishaps and intelligent feedback real-time within the in-form notification and validation software.

 

I emailed the development company on what I considered the key shortfalls were of their current solution.

 

They were nice enough to say thank-you

 

Excluding the basic form with autofill, there is no real-time integration between the various databases that hold all the foreigner details. 

 

So without rambling on further, the frustration users experience will never be solved whether self-induced or system induced, until the end users' have real input into the problems at hand, we call this design phase "user requirements definition or input" it is the first phase of the software development cycles.

 

I am sure there are contributors on this forum much more skilled or knowledgeable than myself that understand the limitations on the current TM47 Online 90 days reporting solution.

 

So while I completely understand individual's frustration, nothing significant will really every change until the strategy changes, this could be management, financial, technical, knowledge, experience, resources or derived outcome requirements limitations.

 

So as we say "grin and bear it", and live in hope!

 

 

[ronster]

Done mine online for first time and they even emailed me back to say I had put wrong visa finished date on it and what date I should have put.

Fixed it and sent it to them and was approved 30 minutes later . 

Brilliant service !! 😄

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, ronster said:

Brilliant service !! 😄

 

Looking at this logically, TM47 is an address reporting system.  All they really need are your nationality and passport number plus your current address.  Everything else is superfluous.

They don't need your date of birth.  They don't need your arrival card number or date of arrival or how you arrived.  They don't need your type of visa or extension of stay expiry date.  They don't need your gender.  They already have all this information.

So, whilst it's nice that they contacted you quickly, they should never have even been asking for the visa finish date.  They even admitted already having that information and told you the correct date.  In other words, utterly pointless.

I wouldn't call it brilliant service by any means.  It's simply pointless bureaucracy propping up totally inadequate IT systems.

 

 

 

 

[BigStar]

26 minutes ago, Foxx said:

So, whilst it's nice that they contacted you quickly, they should never have even been asking for the visa finish date. 

 

They didn't in the first place. But if you're going to put it in, then the point is that you need to put in the correct date. Not knowing what it is suggests a problem.

 

28 minutes ago, Foxx said:

It's simply pointless bureaucracy propping up totally inadequate IT systems.

 

We can do without the hyperbole. It's a pretty good system, seems to work well most of the time, and I like it. If you don't, then go back to visiting the IO every 3 months.

 

 

[Foxx]

19 minutes ago, BigStar said:

We can do without the hyperbole. It's a pretty good system

 

Either you have not read my previous post, or you don't understand it.

 

At no level is it a "pretty good system".  It's simply not fit for purpose.

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

 

Either you have not read my previous post, or you don't understand it.

 

At no level is it a "pretty good system".  It's simply not fit for purpose.

 

We'll agree to disagree. 🙂 Been working fine for me since introduced w/ a couple of exceptions, including 2 weeks ago.

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

 

We'll agree to disagree. 🙂 Been working fine for me since introduced w/ a couple of exceptions, including 2 weeks ago.

Your point?

Does not work for MANY.

And yes data entered correctly magnifying glass and data checked. 

System is useless

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Your point?

Does not work for MANY.

And yes data entered correctly magnifying glass and data checked. 

System is useless

 

But does work for MANY OTHERS. Therefore, not useless. Maybe the system will improve over time. 🙂 

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, BigStar said:

But does work for MANY OTHERS.

Again your point? 

There are daily reports of rejection of online reporting.

Possibly the most common thread every week along with TM30.

 

Either something works for everyone or it's faulty.

My guess is that you don't deal with CW.

 

Some reports of almost instant approval. Again my guess that this is automated approval.

[DrJack54]

7 hours ago, BigStar said:

 It's a pretty good system, seems to work well most of the time, and I like it. If you don't, then go back to visiting the IO every 3 months.

Not a matter of liking it. 

I have had 3 online reports rejected (CW) 

When try to discuss with immigration officer may as well chat to a lamp post. 

Yes it can be done via mail.

Never had a mail report rejected.

 

Doing in person report is very difficult for many depending on distance from immigration office and things such as mobility.

The online is a broken system.

Sanctimonious posts from folk re "never had an issue" is not helpful to those that have online rejections regardless of what they do even after in person report. 

 

 

[bigt3116]

13 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

System is useless

 

11 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Either something works for everyone or it's faulty.

 

Faulty is nowhere near the same as useless, the very fact that it works the majority of the time is proof that it is not useless.

 

9 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

When try to discuss with immigration officer may as well chat to a lamp post. 

 

Maybe because they are desk officers and not computer programmers?

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

Faulty is nowhere near the same as useless, the very fact that it works the majority of the time is proof that it is not useless

Semantics. If something is hit and miss as almost daily reports expressing rejection with the online option then it's faulty.

In addition there is never a credible explanation of why the report was rejected. 

 

[Upnotover]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

 

In addition there is never a credible explanation of why the report was rejected.

I will go to CW to do my first ever 90 day report next week.  Just for fun I thought I'd try the online system in case by some glitch it went through.  As expected it was rejected but the reason was very clearly stated;

 

"For first-time requests of a 90-day notification in each country visit, in-person presentation at the immigration office is required."

[DrJack54]

11 hours ago, Upnotover said:

"For first-time requests of a 90-day notification in each country visit, in-person presentation at the immigration office is required."

That's a given. 

What I'm referring to, along with others, is that a rejection can occur at anytime regardless of "first time request" or otherwise. 

It's a lottery 

Note you can file TM47 via mail if "in person" difficult. 

[quake]

22 hours ago, HuaHinNew said:

Interesting comments both positive and negative re TM47 online 90 day reporting

 

Well without being too forward, any comments that indicate the Online 90 days reporting system is great and works all the time for me, those individuals can consider themselves very lucky.

 

I can speak with some authority as a long time user of all the Online 90-Day Reporting solutions and as an IT technology specialist of some 40 years in the business.

 

We often say in the IT technology field "you get what you pay for" and even though the current Web based TM47 solution is far improved over the older versions, it is still wanting in basic design, integration and support, features and functions.

 

If you follow closely the history of developments, more recent announcements were a revamp of the Online Web based solution which was down for many days due to the upgrade and the latest announcement about integration work currently being undertaking between systems.

 

To date, none of these Immigration systems, to my knowledge, communicate real-time data with each other, not an easy task as some are legacy systems and others are current technology systems, all potentially in different software languages.

 

I found the development company for this current Online solution digging through the backend of the code.

 

As a person that develops these types of solutions over many years, I know all the pitfalls of what users encounter and how to build robust software around these issues to mitigate user mishaps and intelligent feedback real-time within the in-form notification and validation software.

 

I emailed the development company on what I considered the key shortfalls were of their current solution.

 

They were nice enough to say thank-you

 

Excluding the basic form with autofill, there is no real-time integration between the various databases that hold all the foreigner details. 

 

So without rambling on further, the frustration users experience will never be solved whether self-induced or system induced, until the end users' have real input into the problems at hand, we call this design phase "user requirements definition or input" it is the first phase of the software development cycles.

 

I am sure there are contributors on this forum much more skilled or knowledgeable than myself that understand the limitations on the current TM47 Online 90 days reporting solution.

 

So while I completely understand individual's frustration, nothing significant will really every change until the strategy changes, this could be management, financial, technical, knowledge, experience, resources or derived outcome requirements limitations.

 

So as we say "grin and bear it", and live in hope!

 

 

 Your right.

But this is a bit like the local roads in Thailand.

Why do it properly, it would end the Gravy train for many every year.

TIT.

 

 

 

 

 

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

 

 

Faulty is nowhere near the same as useless, the very fact that it works the majority of the time is proof that it is not useless.

 

 

Maybe because they are desk officers and not computer programmers?

Should people nowadays anywhere in any country not be computer literate if they are a desk officer?

[bigt3116]

4 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

Should people nowadays anywhere in any country not be computer literate if they are a desk officer?

 

There is a HUGE difference between being computer literate and knowing why an individual's report did not get accepted.

 

[thurien]

I always do my 90d in person (Khorat immi, they never ever rejected  my TM47 there 🤩 ) wonderful to be combined with shopping and a relaxing massage - then head back to the rice paddies

[BigStar]

16 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Again your point? 

There are daily reports of rejection of online reporting.

 

Duh. Since you asked, here is it again, moderator. The online reporting system is not utterly useless. We can do without the hyperbole. There are daily reports of acceptance of online reporting.

 

I'll repeat for you again if you'd like. I have in my clipboard manager now, easy to paste in. But I think bickering is usually cause for post removals etc.

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, thurien said:

I always do my 90d in person (Khorat immi, they never ever rejected  my TM47 there 🤩 ) wonderful to be combined with shopping and a relaxing massage - then head back to the rice paddies

That's nice, it can be a four hour wait at CW when the online system is down.

[Foxx]

10 minutes ago, BigStar said:

The online reporting system is not utterly useless.

 

The topic here is "Immigration - totally useless" - not the online reporting system.

Amongst its many failings, Immigration has failed to provide a reliable online reporting system.

[BigStar]

4 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

The topic here is "Immigration - totally useless" - not the online reporting system.

Amongst its many failings, Immigration has failed to provide a reliable online reporting system.

 

Since Immigration succeeded in providing an online supporting system reliable for many others, and may therefore be accounted among its many partial successes, then Immigration isn't totally useless. Next.

[Foxx]

17 minutes ago, BigStar said:

 

Since Immigration succeeded in providing an online supporting system reliable for many others, and may therefore be accounted among its many partial successes, then Immigration isn't totally useless. Next.

 

Ridiculous.  Image you had a banking system that only sometimes worked.  Missed transactions.  Failed to let you log in.  Had incomplete validation of input.  Would you consider that acceptable?  I know I wouldn't.  The difference is, if my bank were like that I'd change bank.  Unfortunately, one can't do that with Immigration.  You are holding Immigration to what is (in my opinion) an unacceptably low standard.

 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

Ridiculous.  Image you had a banking system that only sometimes worked.

 

I'd then say it sometimes often worked, partly depending on location, and it was quite convenient for those for whom it did work.

 

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

Would you consider that acceptable?  I know I wouldn't. 

 

If I were one of the unfortunates, no. If one of the fortunate, yes, with caveats.

 

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

The difference is, if my bank were like that I'd change bank.  Unfortunately, one can't do that with Immigration. 

 

Ridiculous. You'd change methods of banking with the particular branch if you needed to use that branch. As for Immigration, you'd mail in your report or visit the office, as I have on occasion. One way or the other, you'd complete your report and get the slip. Yawn.

 

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

You are holding Immigration to what is (in my opinion) an unacceptably low standard.

 

You're merely childishly exaggerating (par for the course here) your personal dissatisfaction with online reporting into a blanket "utterly useless" description for everyone, which it most definitely isn't. Next.

 

[DrJack54]

Further bickering posts will be removed 

[Carsten07]

On 11/7/2024 at 6:27 AM, Andycoops said:

Can't beat walking into the office and actually handing over your passport.

 

I am usually in and out in under 10 minutes and it allows me to do some retail therapy at Robinson's, HomePro, Global etc afterwards every 3 months.

90 day report = 90 seconds if you come at 15:30.

[Mutt Daeng]

2 hours ago, Carsten07 said:

On 11/7/2024 at 6:27 AM, Andycoops said:

Can't beat walking into the office and actually handing over your passport.

 

I am usually in and out in under 10 minutes and it allows me to do some retail therapy at Robinson's, HomePro, Global etc afterwards every 3 months.

90 day report = 90 seconds if you come at 15:30.

That's fine if you live within a reasonable distance of your local immigration office. Since I settled here in 2009, my local immigration office has changed several times, even though I have lived at the same address since I first came to live here. First of all, even though I live in Buriram. I had to report to Korat Immigration office at Chok Chai (90 Km round trip from my house). Next, due to changes at immigration, I had to report to the office at the pottery village at Dan Kwian (on the road to Korat) which was about a 110 Km round trip. Then after another reorganisation, I had to report to Kap Choeng (Surin) which was approximately a 250 Km round trip. Then an immigration office opened in Buriram which is about a 170 Km round trip (my current office), so as far as I am concerned, the online reporting is the dogs b0ll0cks. I've done my 90 day reports successfully online since the 90 day reporting first went online on April 1st 2015, in the comfort of my own home at a time of my choosing. The only times I haven't been able to report online is when it was shutdown for a while and there was a hiccup when I got  a new passport in 2016, and I had to do a border bounce to get my new passport into the "system".  I do sympathise with others who don't have the same level of success as me.

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

The only times I haven't been able to report online is when it was shutdown for a while and there was a hiccup when I got  a new passport in 2016, and I had to do a border bounce to get my new passport into the "system".

Why would a border bounce be required. 

You could attend your local immigration office to transfer stamps.

You could have even left it till 90 day report window open and done both at the same time.