UK Pensioners in Thailand Face New Scrutiny Over Pension Fraud

[Keep Right]

Blame it on the voters, they choose the left wing government of Labour. The socialists want your pensions to support the illegal migrants. Enjoy!

[Phulublub]

1 minute ago, Keep Right said:

Blame it on the voters, they choose the left wing government of Labour. The socialists want your pensions to support the illegal migrants. Enjoy!

Didnt see much change in unfreezing pensions under 14 years of Conservative Government....not that I am condoing Labour, but

 

PH

[CFCol]

3 hours ago, Nicholas Paul KNIGHT said:

The simple fact that the government can get details from your bank in order to detect FRAUD , is nothing NEW. Now for example they know where you are due to the Biometric details utilising the UK Customs and Excise departments . 

 Nothing new, those that maintain a UK address to get the uprating of pensions and benefits are not only acting criminally but also very stupidly . I have known one or two that have been caught and also some that still try to get around the system , although in honesty those numbers are dwindling as people realise the futility of their actions. 

24 years ago I knew the facts and figures relating to pensions especially their Old Age Pension, those that claim ignorance are themselves ignorant . No-one in their right mind moves to relocate to another country and does not check on every part of your life that will be affected including pensions.

The 3 year letter to prove life is as ludicrous as it is stupid, however it satisfies some oik in a Government Office somewhere and I would hate to deprive that person of a job . After nearly 24 years here The only problem has been postal notifications so 23 years ago acquired a PO Box, now no problems. If you have a problem solve it and stop bloody moaning 

I think you mean Revenue and Customs, which are part of treasury and will not have your "biometrics"

Customs and excise hasn't existed for about 20 years.If you're talking about passport biometrics, that will be Border Force ,(old Customs and Immigration departments), which were transferred to the HomeOffice at that time.

[quake]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

You got it wrong. They do care by freezing you pension so that you pay less to the Thai Revenue Department as of January 1, this year.

Now look here you.

I was replying to someone else's post.

about money sent over seas.

 

Maybe you should brush up on your reading and comprehension. 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, hardblogger said:

They are slow for sure, my birthday was in November, so I sent the forms off.....by mail....cost 1200 baht!! 

Why?  A registered letter to the UK only costs somewhere around a couple of hundred baht.

[RichardColeman]

Not sure this will effect me too much. I am 60 now, and my plan is to be living in the UK again by 67 and come here for maybe 4-5 months a year after. The government should actually leave it alone and just increase the weekly amount for pensioners anyway - the pot of people they are looking for here is just not worth the effort and on top of that if they make it too hard to stay in Thailand by going after pensioners, then the amount of money the returning pensioners will be asking for rental help from the DWP will far exceed what they will get back in revenue collected in stopping increases !

 

Funny thing is though, that the UK government should do a deal with thailand to start retirement pensioner villages, as taking care of them here is probably far cheaper than in the uk.

 

 

 

 

[transam]

8 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Didnt see much change in unfreezing pensions under 14 years of Conservative Government....not that I am condoing Labour, but

 

PH

The pensions locked thing goes back to the 1950's, the only murmur on getting it changed, I believe was by Jeremy Corbyn........ ☺️

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, Gcart said:

When we die can matter more. Living past 75 can trigger taxes on any leftover pension, essentially creating a tax on living 'too long

Please explain.

[quake]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

The pensions locked thing goes back to the 1950's, the only murmur on getting it changed, I believe was by Jeremy Corbyn........ ☺️

 

Yes , we all remember Corbyn, what nice chap. 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, renaissanc said:

t is very unfair for British pensioners. But what will British pensioners who have a frozen pension do if there is a world war, which is quite possible this decade

Gawd...

[soalbundy]

4 hours ago, quake said:

 

The toss pots forgot it's uk citizens many years ago.

It started with Blair and is still running strong.

But the people of the government past and present,

Send there kids to private school and themselves  drive home in there BMW's every night.

No worries.

The Uk caring about it's people. NOT 

 

but they never have done, nothing new here.

[Liverpool Lou]

58 minutes ago, Lopburikid said:

Talking of fraud, why isn't the thai government looking into hospitals double billing foreigners, even when they have fully paid up health insurance?

That is not fraud.  You may not like it but it is not fraud.

[Bannoi]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

For those UK pensioners who have been here for several years, it may be worth investigating moving to a country where the increases are paid and only visiting Thailand for holidays.  If you moved to one of these, my understanding is that after six months you will get all the frozen increases added to your pension.  If you subsequently come to realise that, actually, you prefer to live full time in Thailand, then your pension would then again become frozen, but at the new level.  Might be a considerable uplift for some.

 

I would not, of course, advocate moving "permanently" to the Phillipines (or back to UK, or elsewhere) and discovering after seven months it is not for you so you move back to Thailand.

 

PH

Then forget to close your Phillipines bank account where your pension is paid into. 

That might be a bit naughty though.

[Baht Simpson]

3 hours ago, animalmagic said:

The biggest fraud is implementing a system where the UK Government can treat its pensioners unfairly based on where they live even though they have all contributed the same.

And despite the fact that some of us are paying Income Tax in the U.K. contributing substantially to the economy. And all the savings on benefits, NHS etc.

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Lopburikid said:

Thai insurance companies who take the money, but then refuse to pay out because they are unable to  access home countries medical records dating back to your childhood?

Another fairy story, or a one-off that was probably justified, or there's a lot more to it.

[Bannoi]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

For those UK pensioners who have been here for several years, it may be worth investigating moving to a country where the increases are paid and only visiting Thailand for holidays.  If you moved to one of these, my understanding is that after six months you will get all the frozen increases added to your pension.  If you subsequently come to realise that, actually, you prefer to live full time in Thailand, then your pension would then again become frozen, but at the new level.  Might be a considerable uplift for some.

 

I would not, of course, advocate moving "permanently" to the Phillipines (or back to UK, or elsewhere) and discovering after seven months it is not for you so you move back to Thailand.

 

PH

Then forget to close your Phillipines bank account where your pension is paid into and to notify them that you moved back to Thailand. 

That might be a bit naughty though.

[Bannoi]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

For those UK pensioners who have been here for several years, it may be worth investigating moving to a country where the increases are paid and only visiting Thailand for holidays.  If you moved to one of these, my understanding is that after six months you will get all the frozen increases added to your pension.  If you subsequently come to realise that, actually, you prefer to live full time in Thailand, then your pension would then again become frozen, but at the new level.  Might be a considerable uplift for some.

 

I would not, of course, advocate moving "permanently" to the Phillipines (or back to UK, or elsewhere) and discovering after seven months it is not for you so you move back to Thailand.

 

PH

 

[animalmagic]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It is not a fraud, the government makes it perfectly clear to those who chose to live overseas and accept the condition.

The same government that makes it impossible to live in UK with a foreign wife due to financial requirements to have a yearly income more than they get in a UK pension?  And you have overlooked the fact that pensioners living overseas are not all treated the same; it depends on which country they live in!  The Government may make it clear, but that does not mean it is not fraud. 

[Liverpool Lou]

44 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

The current Chancellor described the freeze as unfair in the commons a few years ago, but yet again it's been swept under the carpet. 

It has not been swept under the carpet, it has been discussed several times following petitions that, after a certain number of signatures, have to be brought up.  Being denied is not being swept under the carpet

[quake]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

but they never have done, nothing new here.

 

I kind of liked Magi Thatcher.

If we had had more leaders like her, I think the uk would be ok now.

Could you imagine,  Magi letting these boats come to our shores. 

I think she would have a word about that and a lot of other things  

 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, hardblogger said:

Unfortunately this is incorrect, it would revert back to your old Thailand rate....

That is incorrect.

[Liverpool Lou]

38 minutes ago, connda said:

Pensioners living aboard are less of an economic burden on the UK than those living in the UK who need additional assistance to simply heat their homes and pay the rent. 

You seem to be assuming that all pensioners are renters.

[sidneybear]

4 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

No, I already guessed that would be your answer. Are you hiding and receiving too much money? They are coming for everyone who does that.

The government hates you. Why do you love it back?

[bangadang]

I deferred my pension to get 1% every 9 weeks and get next year's April rise, and then I will take it. I HATE that I won't get the annual allowance that I paid into, but I know several people who cheat.

It is a disgrace, but you may owe thousands and a fine if you get caught out. It's not worth the risk, I think.

[Liverpool Lou]

38 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

lame it on the voters, they choose the left wing government of Labour. The socialists want your pensions to support the illegal migrants. Enjoy!

Nothing to do with party affiliations, all Conservative governments have had exactly the same attitude for the last 70 years also.

[sambum]

"However, Thailand’s advocacy group for ending frozen UK pensions argues that the issue of fraud is minor. A representative claimed that the primary issues are DWP processing errors and the discriminatory policy denying pension increases to expats based on location.

Neither the previous Conservative nor the current Labour government has addressed these concerns."

 

I get a monthly pension from my ex employer, and get an annual increment in line with or above inflation, but they aren't bothered where I live, and even actively encourage pensioners to "widen their horizons".

 

On the other hand, the British Government (Tories and Labour) continually sweep this "discriminatory policy" under the carpet, and seem more intent on looking after illegal immigrants and spending BILLIONS every year on foreign aid, ("In 2023, the UK spent $19.11 billion on Official Development Assistance (ODA), which includes domestic spending on refugee programs") than looking after their own "home grown" citizens who have spent their entire working lives in the UK. 

"The cost of unfreezing UK state pensions for expats is estimated to be in the billions of pounds:2023/24: £860 million"

So, to recap, the cost of foreign aid costs the UK $19.11 BILLION PER YEAR, (Plus the cost of housing legal and illegal immigrants which is also in the BILLIONS of pounds per year i.e."The UK spent £15.374 BILLION on asylum seekers and refugees in 2023, which was 0.58% of the UK's gross national income (GNI). This was an increase of 16.4% from 2022. The UK's aid budget for 2023 was £15.4 billion, which was £2.6 billion more than the previous year.")

Whereas the cost of unfreezing pensions for expats would be £860 MILLION PER YEAR.

Doesn't seem fair does it? Especially as additionally, those expats are saving the UK economy millions of pounds every year through not having free medical treatment on the NHS, or other benefits? 

(And I have already heard the arguments that "We should have thought of frozen pensions before retiring to whichever country we chose", or, "It's not our money - it's the current taxpayers that would be paying for the increments".)

 

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, hardblogger said:

 If you get your OAP paid direct into Thai bank, it is then TAX free, it is not paid from UK,, it is paid from outscorcing company actually in USA. But if it paid into UK bank, then yes it will be subject to tax over 12570. But may or may not suit you to check that out. Mine goes in to my Thai bank every 4th Friday at 9.01am its very good. 

Utter nonsense! It doesn’t matter where it’s paid. If it’s U.K. income it’s subject to tax.

[Liverpool Lou]

23 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

Then forget to close your Phillipines bank account where your pension is paid into. 

They can ask for evidence of your living there via passport entry/leaving stamps.

[VBF]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

There are no links from my UK bank account to any foreign activity.

I don't use Brit debit or credit cards outside the UK either. 

The government can look all they like, there's nothing for them to find.

What happens if / when you apply for a new passport in Bangkok?

UK Gov databases are getting linked more and more.

[Baht Simpson]

14 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It has not been swept under the carpet, it has been discussed several times following petitions that, after a certain number of signatures, have to be brought up.  Being denied is not being swept under the carpet

Yes, it's been discussed then seen as not an issue any more for Labour and the Tories. The Lib Dems are still in favour of uprating and say so on their website, so they haven't swept it under the carpet. 

 

Once they get into power the issue is quietly dropped.