Visa on Arrival refused - what is the best way to re-enter Thailand?

[ChaiyaTH]

CM used to be the easier but I noticed on my last arrival a lot people were being hassled and that the ''all ladies employment'' is also active there. Those catching the few queues with a guy were always processed without issues and much faster too.

 

Have to say this is the first time ever I heard of someone being refused and send back there. Not surprised at all, CM is going down hill day by day more. Try to even fly from there except Bangkok, it's 4-5K up anywhere.

[ukrules]

On 11/18/2024 at 11:07 AM, Cameroni said:

That's what I thought, but they were like jackal circling me in a pack. All with only one goal in mind, refuse entry. One guy even screamed at me in an agitated way. 

 

Escorted in a cell like a criminal flanked by armed security. Quite surreal. I was held from 9 am to 14.30 and not given food or water. 

 

Yes, what you saw here is a rare glimpse of what they really think - they let the mask fall, only momentarily but this is the truth all the same.

They hate us.

[cdnvic]

Removed off topic posts and one commenting on moderation. As always, complaints, suggestions and enthusiastic praise about moderation can be forwarded to suppot-at-aseannow.com

 

Please refrain from public debate on it.

[Pattaya57]

22 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Yes, what you saw here is a rare glimpse of what they really think - they let the mask fall, only momentarily but this is the truth all the same.

They hate us.

No, immigration did their job like they do in every country and found someone using tourist entries when they have actually lived in Thailand for a long time. 

[Dan O]

On 11/17/2024 at 9:23 PM, Cameroni said:

I arrived in March 2023 and after the initial visa waiver got an ED visa for one year. I was going to renew it but since Thailand changed the rules on visa waivers I decided to use these as long as possible. I did two visa waiver runs to Laos and flew to Germany once and again got a visa waiver. As the extension expired on the 15th I flew to Malaysia for 2 days. But after arrival in Chiang Mai a young lady from immigration called her boss over. As I'd stayed in Thailand 1 year and 7 months they said I'm not a tourist so he's refusing the visa waiver. Bizarrely he said I should fly back to Malaysia and apply for a tourist visa. I refused to sign the expulsion order but of course it made no difference. 

 

What is my best option here, apply for a tourist visa, go back in and then apply for the DTV? Can an EU national apply for a tourist visa in Malaysia? And if I get it could Chiang Mai immigration then not make the same argument that due to living there 19 months I'm not real tourist and deny entry despite a valid tourist visa? 

Yes you can still be denied by Imm at arrival depending on how quickly you come back even with a visa. A Visa is not a guarantee of admittance only authorization to travel to Thailand. As has been mention they are on to the fact you are not a tourist so pick your visa wisely 

[freedomnow]

Wow CNX was always seen as the sure thing for "perpetual gaming exempt and paid visa touristas".

[raz0r21]

OP until you get your things in order, there are many "safe entry" services available at all the big airports in Thailand - for a fee of course. A quick search in this forum will give you the results you need.  

[Caldera]

10 hours ago, freedomnow said:

Wow CNX was always seen as the sure thing for "perpetual gaming exempt and paid visa touristas".

 

I've noticed that agents that offer the "safe entry" service at airports have added CNX to their list. Now, would anyone pay for this if they continued to fail to hassle people? Therein might lie the answer...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 11/18/2024 at 10:20 AM, DrJack54 said:

The DTV is all the rage and seems attractive. 

It does have requirements.

 

Jack, what's the logistics these days of a DTV application:

 

Specifically:

 

--do you have to be physically present in your home country in order to apply, or can apply from anywhere outside Thailand where there's a participating Thai consulate?

 

--Once issued, does it involve the issuing consulate physically stamping one's passport (meaning you have to physically give them your passport), or it's all digital and you get some visa document via email or similar?

 

TIA

 

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

do you have to be physically present in your home country in order to apply, or can apply from anywhere outside Thailand where there's a participating Thai consulate?

You can apply outside of Thailand at some Thai consulates/embassies.

I posted in another thread of chat with young UK guy who obtained for DTV eVisa while in UK 

Took only 3 days (amazing) 

Easy for him as he actually does have a UK employer and his work is entirely online..

 

Have seen reports of obtaining at Vientiane.

Agents in Thailand are offering packages (expensive) to assist with obtaining DTV mainly at Savannakhet.

Those include the whole deal. Transport, hotel etc. Takes about 5 days. 

 

[BrandonJT]

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

--do you have to be physically present in your home country in order to apply, or can apply from anywhere outside Thailand where there's a participating Thai consulate?

 

--Once issued, does it involve the issuing consulate physically stamping one's passport (meaning you have to physically give them your passport), or it's all digital and you get some visa document via email or similar?

 

The embassies in SE Asia allow non-residents to apply. Many others do, but some don't. And even more confusingly some that specifically say they don't, like Tapei, allow non-residents to apply for the DTV there.

 

How you receive your DTV depends on where you are applying.  If you are applying at a Thai embassy that has not adopted e-visa, you will be giving them your passport with your application and your visa will be inside the passport.

If you apply at a Thai embassy that has adopted e-visa, it will all be done online and you will receive your visa as a PDF document e-mailed to you.

[Rob Browder]

On 11/19/2024 at 8:24 PM, Pattaya57 said:

Every thread you post the same "immigration is corrupt" rubbish that has nothing to do with the thread topic. 

 

OP admits that he's been living in Thailand continuously for a long time so not surprising he got told he's not a tourist eligible for visa exempt. He's 53, get a non-imm O like most other 50+ people that live in Thailand

No where in Immigration law is there a reason to deny-entry for staying in Thailand "too much." 

I would also recommend he get a Non-O, but he can use the service I linked above to stay in Thailand indefinitely on Visa-Exempts, to Immigration's delight.  That service availability and "how immigration really works" vs actual laws is 100% on-topic.

[Rob Browder]

On 11/19/2024 at 8:39 PM, DrJack54 said:

As per usual taking a post out of context and revert to Mel Gibson conspiracy theory.

The OP has good alternative that being non O retirement+ extensions.

 

As usual, pretending the obvious answer is "a conspiracy theory" - implying immigration don't take payoffs via agents (why do such services exist?) - and that payoff money would not motivate their actions. 

 

I agree that, as an over-50, he could live easier by just paying 12.5K Baht to an agent (25K if on a tourist-entry) and be done with it, but if he wants to pay "by the entry" for some reason, that is do-able, also.

[DrJack54]

On 11/21/2024 at 6:16 PM, Rob Browder said:

I agree that, as an over-50, he could live easier by just paying 12.5K Baht to an agent (25K if on a tourist-entry) and be done with it, but if he wants to pay "by the entry" for some reason, that is do-able, also.

Yes I posted days ago .,.

"If DTV difficult for the OP then a non O with ongoing extensions is an option.

If insufficient funds then use an agent" 

 

A non O with or without agent good option..

 

EDIT: DVD corrected to DTV 

[GypsyT]

1 hour ago, Rob Browder said:

I agree that, as an over-50, he could live easier by just paying 12.5K Baht to an agent (25K if on a tourist-entry) and be done with it, but if he wants to pay "by the entry" for some reason, that is do-able, also.

 

NEW BIG sign at 30-day counter: "NO DONATIONS ACCEPTED"

- What is this country coming to....

 

PS. Walked by today 2pm. The place was buzzing. Long lines.

 

 

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, GypsyT said:

NEW BIG sign at 30-day counter: "NO DONATIONS ACCEPTED"

- What is this country coming to....

 

PS. Walked by today 2pm. The place was buzzing. Long lines.

Post advising OP in what way.

The thread has clear advice for options. 

OP @Cameroni despite being in forum recently has not contributed to own thread

[freedomnow]

On 11/20/2024 at 5:41 AM, Caldera said:

 

I've noticed that agents that offer the "safe entry" service at airports have added CNX to their list. Now, would anyone pay for this if they continued to fail to hassle people? Therein might lie the answer...

Haha, is there such a service..what does that cost !?

[BrandonJT]

3 hours ago, freedomnow said:

Haha, is there such a service..what does that cost !?

Depends on your history in Thailand, the longer and more sketchy, the higher the price.  I think it starts around 1500-2000?  After that the sky is the limit until the agent tells you they can't help you.

[edwardflory]

"""As I'd stayed in Thailand 1 year and 7 months they said I'm not a tourist so he's refusing the visa waiver."""

 

Now the POSSIBILITY:

Just because you have a VISA - doesn't matter WHAT kind, you CAN be REFUSED entry into Thailand by a Immigration Officer based on 1) Your history on the computer

OR

2) any reason thought of by the IO. 

It happened to a friend of mine who was really WORKING the system for 2+ years in every possible way.

He got bounced ( see next paragraph ) on his appeal.

 

If this happens, tell the IO you want a IMMEDIATE APPEAL to your entry refusal, a process unknown to most people.

 

Good Luck.

[Scouse123]

On 11/18/2024 at 9:36 AM, Upnotover said:

Is you qualify for a DTV why not just apply for it there, or maybe go to Vietnam and do it there.

 

 

You do know that you have to have reasonable grounds and/or an attachment to the country where you are applying if it is not your country of nationality.

 

It's not just simple and straightforward that you can apply to any country you choose in the region as long as it is outside Thailand.

 

I read that somewhere when I was looking, as I intend to apply in Cambodia early next year, but I do have an address, a visa, and do banking business in Cambodia.

 

Also, he needs to show 500K

 

On 11/18/2024 at 10:15 AM, Upnotover said:

I don't think there is much difference, certainly the reports on here suggest a DTV is issued within a few days, HCMC states 5 for any e-visa, if your paperwork is adequate no reason for a DTV to take a long time.

 

See above.

 

How rigorous they will enforce is a matter for them, but we know different Embassies and Consuls will have their own rules. I can see very soon if people keep applying for DTV based on these scenarios, there will be a big change in the application process and new rules will be brought in.

 

I mean, this means guys are just living here on tourist visas and now trying to move that lifestyle to the DTV.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scouse123]

On 11/18/2024 at 5:22 PM, raz0r21 said:

They seem to be much more harsh towards people who qualify for the retirement visa but still try to stay long term as a tourist. I have seen this type of thread a few times already. Not saying OP did anything wrong, but this area seems to be very sensitive for the IOs.

 

Well, he did do something wrong.

 

He's living here on tourist visas, that's why they have an immigration system and a Visa system.

 

[Upnotover]

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

You do know that you have to have reasonable grounds and/or an attachment to the country where you are applying if it is not your country of nationality.

 

It's not just simple and straightforward that you can apply to any country you choose in the region as long as it is outside Thailand.

 

I read that somewhere when I was looking, as I intend to apply in Cambodia early next year, but I do have an address, a visa, and do banking business in Cambodia.

 

Also, he needs to show 500K

 

 

See above.

 

How rigorous they will enforce is a matter for them, but we know different Embassies and Consuls will have their own rules. I can see very soon if people keep applying for DTV based on these scenarios, there will be a big change in the application process and new rules will be brought in.

 

I mean, this means guys are just living here on tourist visas and now trying to move that lifestyle to the DTV.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may well be right but there have been multiple reports of people getting DTV's locally without any local 'attachment' further than an entry stamp.  Seems to me that a long term visa obtainable based upon a cooking course or dental appointment is likely to be refined and the requirements to get one may well become more stringent.

[BusyB]

48 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

You may well be right but there have been multiple reports of people getting DTV's locally without any local 'attachment' further than an entry stamp.  Seems to me that a long term visa obtainable based upon a cooking course or dental appointment is likely to be refined and the requirements to get one may well become more stringent.

 

I've only been an active member of these forums (back then as TV) since about 2009, although lurking since my first snowbird gig in 2003/4.

 

I watched dismayed as all the smarta$$e$ bragged back then about being 'English' 'teachers' (some could barely spell never mind the 'grammar') and doing repeat border runs while sacking in enough cash to get stoned all month. And how appalling their attitude was to the kids they were cheating of a decent education.

 

I figured at the time that Immigration/Police were monitoring the forum. They'd have been idiots not to. And I figured they'd start tightening up, which they did around 2006 onwards. Those goons all thought they were smarter than the idiot Thais (from schools to Immigration)  they insulted all the time, and completely destroyed what was a reasonable lenient gig for lots of decent people who did the simple things they were asked to do to conform.

 

They utterly ruined it for those who adhered to what were then very lenient regulations.

 

It looks like the same will happen with the DT Visas. Making it a pain in the backside and so much harder for decent folks who screw the bobbin and adhere to the regs.

 

Doesn't bother me so much because I can easily get a legit Non-O retirement visa. But that type of self-centered 'I'm OK, sod the rest' really urinates me off anywhere.

 

Especially when it's obvious that the wannabe smarta$$e$ are actually as thick as mince and clearly don't give a damn about anyone else.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

Well, he did do something wrong.

 

He's living here on tourist visas, that's why they have an immigration system and a Visa system.

 

 

   As Immigration allow entry to those people on tourists visas , then they aren't doing anything wrong 

[Upnotover]

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   As Immigration allow entry to those people on tourists visas , then they aren't doing anything wrong 

Well they aren't, until someone decides they are.  That is the problem with a system where the 'rules' are not defined, or perhaps that is the whole point of the system.

[DrJack54]

28 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

That is the problem with a system where the 'rules' are not defined, or perhaps that is the whole point of the system.

It would be so easy for Thai immigration to provide clear RULES regarding eg number of days spent in Thailand with visa exempt entry etc

Crazy situation 

[ericthai]

On 11/21/2024 at 6:16 AM, Rob Browder said:

As usual, pretending the obvious answer is "a conspiracy theory" - implying immigration don't take payoffs via agents (why do such services exist?) - and that payoff money would not motivate their actions. 

 

I agree that, as an over-50, he could live easier by just paying 12.5K Baht to an agent (25K if on a tourist-entry) and be done with it, but if he wants to pay "by the entry" for some reason, that is do-able, also.

sure pay an agent until it's a problem...  You think just because you can pay a bribe that all will be ok? 

 

I've seen several times over the years where visa agents have an issue and then all their clients have issues.

This is Thailand, what the rules are today dont meant it will be the same tomorrow. 

 

[G_Money]

8 minutes ago, ericthai said:

sure pay an agent until it's a problem...  You think just because you can pay a bribe that all will be ok? 

 

I've seen several times over the years where visa agents have an issue and then all their clients have issues.

This is Thailand, what the rules are today dont meant it will be the same tomorrow. 

 

Not if you use a reputable agent.

 

Key word:  Reputable.

[Nick Carter icp]

8 minutes ago, G_Money said:

Not if you use a reputable agent.

 

Key word:  Reputable.

 

   I disagree .

Use a dodgy agent , they can avoid complying with the rules .

Could even be that immigration are making the rules more stringent for the sole purpose that people use the dodgy  agents 

 

[BusyB]

4 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   As Immigration allow entry to those people on tourists visas , then they aren't doing anything wrong 

 

Visiting Thailand (or any country) on a tourist visa, or enjoying the privilege of visiting with a visa exemption, is clearly different to setting up a form of long term residency (however unofficial) on back to back tourist visas and exemptions.