Trump doesn't have to do anything else but just disengage. That has been the plan. How many billions is enough is enough. Let the Europeans continue this lost cause . Putin is going to get and was always

going to get  that Eastern. Not saying that is right just reality. So it would have been bette sooner. The US just cannot afford trying to prevent this. And by the way , the way Trump and Vance conducted themselves with Zelenski was one of the reasons Trump won.

 

 

11 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The joke is on you, as I did not say that Europe is/was United.

I said that trump has United the support for Ukraine by Europe.

but maybe you have difficulty in understanding the difference.

 

It is clear that Trump might possibly be a checkers player but is incapable of the thinking that chess requires.

The west has been selling themselves out and youre talking about chess

Zelensky publicly rebuked any possibility of a ceasefire, in front of the world media, directly to the only bloke in the world with the desire and means to stop the fighting and secure a negotiated peace that by necessity should be (by degrees) unpalatable to both Zelensky and Putin.

 

But nobody is talking about it.

 

Zelensky hasn't even got a pair of two's or anything close to a flush or a straight at the flop, and he went all-in. Statistically, not a wise move. 

Master deal maker now looks more like Masterbater 🤔

 

19 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Trump doesn't have to do anything else but just disengage. That has been the plan. How many billions is enough is enough. Let the Europeans continue this lost cause . Putin is going to get and was always

going to get  that Eastern. Not saying that is right just reality. So it would have been bette sooner. The US just cannot afford trying to prevent this. And by the way , the way Trump and Vance conducted themselves with Zelenski was one of the reasons Trump won.

 

 

 

One very serious flaw in what you're saying. Trump campaigned on the promise to the American people of ending the war within 24 hours. In fact, it was one of his biggest campaign promises. Now he's not going to end anything because he's not a master deal maker. And the war may go on for at least another year with the support from the NATO allies in Europe. Trump can disengage, but that makes him fail on his promise immediately. Not 24 hours, not 24 days, and likely not at all. Do nothing Trump. 

1 hour ago, hotsun said:

From an american perspective, the rest of the world can go to hell. Good luck to everyone else

 

1 hour ago, MicroB said:

 

10 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

Its not like they liked us when we were helping them. Why should we care?

Trump, Xi, and Putin do whats best for their country. Europe is a sinking ship

3 hours ago, Terrance8812 said:

Despite this, Trump promised Americans and the world that he, the so-called master dealmaker, would bring the war to an end, a promise he now cannot fulfill.

"...a promise he now cannot fulfill".

In your opinion.  He's only a month into his term, the best part of four years remains!

3 hours ago, Terrance8812 said:

yet another failed Trump promise added to the history books.

Yet another failed toothless sheep, Trump-bashing, attack, there is no "failed promise", he has almost four years yet to go.

Saw this earlier today..... 

 

Many of you probably watched what took place between Donald Trump and Zelenskyy tonight. Whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, you might be thinking to yourself, Oh my God, Donald Trump just screwed up.

However, as a lifelong practitioner of martial arts, strategy, and philosophy, let me explain the difference between what you believe you witnessed and what actually happened.

Donald Trump has been under constant political persecution since the beginning of his first term. Over time, he has learned to be patient and calculated.

Tonight, Zelenskyy was invited to the Oval Office. However, both Trump and JD Vance knew exactly what Zelenskyy was going to do—he would use this opportunity, in front of the American people, to make a power play. Both Trump and Vance anticipated this.

When Zelenskyy began appealing to the emotions of the American people, JD Vance stepped in, accusing him of disrespecting Donald Trump. This was brilliant strategy. It’s important to understand that Zelenskyy is trying to gain access to NATO.

Trump knew this but could not allow it to happen. If Ukraine joins NATO, the U.S. would be bound by NATO’s collective defense agreement—an attack on one is an attack on all.

Now consider the larger implications: Ukraine and Russia despise each other. If Ukraine were to become a NATO member, any future skirmish between them would obligate the U.S. to enter into direct conflict with Russia. This would mean World War III. And if that happened, China would have to choose a side—they would almost certainly align with Russia.

So what you witnessed tonight was a setup. Trump and JD Vance knew that the only way to achieve peace was to strategically align, at least on the surface, with Russia. Why? Because Russia would never sign a peace treaty if Ukraine were admitted into NATO.

This is why Trump dismantled Zelenskyy’s argument. And when Zelenskyy, seeing his play failing, tried to backtrack and offer a treaty, Trump refused.

Zelenskyy’s real intent was clear—he would not agree to peace unless security guarantees were in place. But what was he actually saying? That NATO must accept Ukraine. However, Russia would never agree to peace, knowing that NATO, their historical adversary, would surround them.

Zelenskyy, Putin, and Trump all knew this. Zelenskyy, thinking he had Democrats' support, believed he could make this bold move on live television. But Trump and Vance saw right through it and outmaneuvered him.

They knew that, in the short term, Democrats and the media would try to use this moment against them. But they also knew they had two years before midterms to prove their strategy was the right one. So they held their ground—brilliantly so.

Now, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms. But here’s the genius part—Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the U.S. into war.

By negotiating a mineral deal, Trump ensures that Americans will be involved in Ukraine’s mining industry. This prevents Russia from launching an invasion, because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives—something that would force the U.S. to respond.

Trump played both sides like a master chess player. In the end, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to concede, because without U.S. support, Ukraine cannot win a prolonged war against Russia. And once U.S. companies have mining operations in Ukraine, Putin will be unable to attack without triggering massive international consequences.

Don’t underestimate Donald Trump. In this game of chess, he’s 10 moves ahead of everyone.

1 hour ago, LennyW said:

Saw this earlier today..... 

 

Many of you probably watched what took place between Donald Trump and Zelenskyy tonight. Whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, you might be thinking to yourself, Oh my God, Donald Trump just screwed up.

However, as a lifelong practitioner of martial arts, strategy, and philosophy, let me explain the difference between what you believe you witnessed and what actually happened.

Donald Trump has been under constant political persecution since the beginning of his first term. Over time, he has learned to be patient and calculated.

Tonight, Zelenskyy was invited to the Oval Office. However, both Trump and JD Vance knew exactly what Zelenskyy was going to do—he would use this opportunity, in front of the American people, to make a power play. Both Trump and Vance anticipated this.

When Zelenskyy began appealing to the emotions of the American people, JD Vance stepped in, accusing him of disrespecting Donald Trump. This was brilliant strategy. It’s important to understand that Zelenskyy is trying to gain access to NATO.

Trump knew this but could not allow it to happen. If Ukraine joins NATO, the U.S. would be bound by NATO’s collective defense agreement—an attack on one is an attack on all.

Now consider the larger implications: Ukraine and Russia despise each other. If Ukraine were to become a NATO member, any future skirmish between them would obligate the U.S. to enter into direct conflict with Russia. This would mean World War III. And if that happened, China would have to choose a side—they would almost certainly align with Russia.

So what you witnessed tonight was a setup. Trump and JD Vance knew that the only way to achieve peace was to strategically align, at least on the surface, with Russia. Why? Because Russia would never sign a peace treaty if Ukraine were admitted into NATO.

This is why Trump dismantled Zelenskyy’s argument. And when Zelenskyy, seeing his play failing, tried to backtrack and offer a treaty, Trump refused.

Zelenskyy’s real intent was clear—he would not agree to peace unless security guarantees were in place. But what was he actually saying? That NATO must accept Ukraine. However, Russia would never agree to peace, knowing that NATO, their historical adversary, would surround them.

Zelenskyy, Putin, and Trump all knew this. Zelenskyy, thinking he had Democrats' support, believed he could make this bold move on live television. But Trump and Vance saw right through it and outmaneuvered him.

They knew that, in the short term, Democrats and the media would try to use this moment against them. But they also knew they had two years before midterms to prove their strategy was the right one. So they held their ground—brilliantly so.

Now, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms. But here’s the genius part—Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the U.S. into war.

By negotiating a mineral deal, Trump ensures that Americans will be involved in Ukraine’s mining industry. This prevents Russia from launching an invasion, because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives—something that would force the U.S. to respond.

Trump played both sides like a master chess player. In the end, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to concede, because without U.S. support, Ukraine cannot win a prolonged war against Russia. And once U.S. companies have mining operations in Ukraine, Putin will be unable to attack without triggering massive international consequences.

Don’t underestimate Donald Trump. In this game of chess, he’s 10 moves ahead of everyone.

 

4 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The oval office confrontation was a major win 🏆 for Zelensky. The world saw how unreasonable and manipulating Trump and JD are. The world now stand behind Ukraine 🇺🇦, without the US.

 

And the world saw, again, trump is not a listener.

The voice of a real president. 

 

3 hours ago, FriscoKid said:

 

 

Yep, pretty foolish for Zelensky to bitch about not doing enough for Ukraine, especially when he dodged conscription four times in 2014 and 2015.

 

He had more important things to do in 2014 than defend kleptocracy!

 

6 hours ago, Terrance8812 said:

it was already clear that Putin will not accept any terms that Ukraine would agree to,

 

Thing is, the loser doesn't dictate terms.

 

If Zelensky were wise, he'd agree to terms before Odessa holds a referendum and secedes.

 

But he is not.  If he were, Minsk would have been implemented, and the four new Russian regions would still be part of a Ukranian federal republic with limited autonomy.

 

And if the US hadn't regime-changed the democratically elected government of Ukraine, Crimea would still be part of Ukraine, and the Russians would still be happily paying the annual lease on Sevastopol.

 

 

Trump is a Traitor to America...  America just hasn't realized it yet. 🥺

Around the world anti-Trump sentiment is building, and Zelensky is considered a hero for speaking out to a bully, and a numskull. 

 

Trump is an absolutely horrific negotiator, and one can see that fully on display now. When you give away the talking points of a negotiation prior to sitting down at the table you have failed. There is a 0% chance of success once you do that, and any decent negotiator knows that. The man could negotiate his way out of a paper bag to save his own life. The United States is now dependent upon this creep for to defend itself.

Prior to the election all of his supporters knew that he adored dictators and despots and he had a lack of affection for democratically elected leaders, but did anybody guess that it would be this bad, so soon? 

 

The death and destruction is only beginning, give Trump another year or two and those who supported him will begin to understand the very nature of the man, and the staggering extent of his deception, malice, evil and corruption. 

 

Trump is a clear and present danger to the security of both the United States and the Free World and he must be stopped. The Senators and Congress members of his own party and the Democratic party must stand up and defend freedom and rational thinking, and against this insane goon. 

 

34 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Prior to the election all of his supporters knew that he adored dictators and despots and he had a lack of affection for democratically elected leaders,

 

Putin holds election.

 

Zelensky declares martial law and cancels elections.

 

Sorry.

12 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Putin holds election.

 

Zelensky declares martial law and cancels elections.

 

Sorry.

Yeah we all know that Putin is the master of a fair election isn't he? Oh wait a minute, that guy has high poll numbers, let's go ahead and take him out. 

6 hours ago, hotsun said:

From an american perspective, the rest of the world can go to hell. Good luck to everyone else

Good luck in being self sufficient .

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Yep, pretty foolish for Zelensky to bitch about not doing enough for Ukraine, especially when he dodged conscription four times in 2014 and 2015.

 

He had more important things to do in 2014 than defend kleptocracy!

 

 

Alright, let’s get real here. You’re parroting a debunked Russian propaganda line about Zelenskyy dodging conscription. That claim has been fact-checked and proven false—he was exempt due to age and medical reasons, not because he was avoiding service. Meanwhile, he was actively supporting troops by performing at the front lines, which is a hell of a lot more than Trump ever did when he dodged Vietnam with his mystical disappearing bone spurs.
 

If you want to criticize Zelenskyy for pushing for more aid, fine. But let’s not pretend that a guy leading his country through an invasion is some kind of coward, especially when the alternative is Trump—who’s never fought for anything that didn’t involve his ego or a lawsuit.
 

How quickly we forget.

Ukraine gave up all the nuclear weapons that were stored there with an agreement the US would protect it from further aggression.

THAT'S why we need to stand up for them. Promises made, promises kept.

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Putin holds election.

 

Zelensky declares martial law and cancels elections.

 

Sorry.

You seem to suggest Zelensky declared martial law for the sole purpose of avoiding elections.

 

Do some more research, you're wrong. 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

You seem to suggest Zelensky declared martial law for the sole purpose of avoiding elections.

 

Do some more research, you're wrong. 

 

Oh, so Ukraine did hold elections?

 

Guess I was worng.

7 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

Master deal maker now looks more like Masterbater 🤔

 

For saving money 

13 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Oh, so Ukraine did hold elections?

 

Guess I was worng.

Play your silly game alone. Bye.

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The death and destruction is only beginning, give Trump another year or two and those who supported him will begin to understand the very nature of the man, and the staggering extent of his deception, malice, evil and corruption. 

It would be good if that were true, it would be even better if there were a snowball’s chance in hades that anyone with any power were to hold him accountable. Unfortunately his fanatical supporters will never change, as far as I can see. So holding your breath for something to deflect him will do no good.

 

It is to be hoped that the deeply flawed American system will not be broken in the next 3.9 years 

6 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Yep, pretty foolish for Zelensky to bitch about not doing enough for Ukraine, especially when he dodged conscription four times in 2014 and 2015.

 

Complete wholesale rubbish. The only thing he dodged was a bad deal being thrown at him by Trump.

 

Zelensky has been fighting a war for the last three years. He could have fled to the UK or Germany, enrolled his daughters in international schools, and lived a quiet, peaceful, safe and comfortable life. But he stayed to fight, to protect his country as a real leader, and he is still fighting. Get a grip on reality, mate.

6 hours ago, bobbin said:

Trump is a Traitor to America...  America just hasn't realized it yet. 🥺

Let's see you explain how that is the case....rationally.