Report Abandoned Abroad: British Pensioner in Thailand Slams 'Immoral' Frozen Pensions Policy

[webfact]

Picture of Christopher Lee courtesy of the iPaper

 

A British expat's sunny retirement in Thailand has turned stormy as his UK state pension remains frozen, leaving him counting every baht. Christopher Lee traded Wrexham for Thailand in 2010, drawn by the warm climate and relaxed lifestyle. But, his pension is stuck at its original rate, unlike UK counterparts who've seen increases of up to 80%.

 

At 70, the former banker relies on a weekly £137 (6,150 baht) after a SERPS top-up, opposed to the current UK basic pension of £176.45 (7,880 baht). In Thailand, one of many countries on the UK’s 'frozen pensions' list, Lee and others see their pensions diminish amidst rising costs.

 

Over 450,000 Brits in countries like Thailand, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand share Lee's plight, battling constant inflation. “The extra cash would be most useful,” Lee voiced, pressing for a policy reversal as financial strains increase. Adding to his woes is a modest private pension that fails to deliver the retirement he envisioned.

 

 

 

Groups of British pensioners in Thailand are pushing back, urging government reform as pensioners face poverty—a plight highlighted in The Thaiger's coverage of Brits struggling in Pattaya and Chiang Mai. The UK government, however, maintains that adjusting overseas pensions would cost nearly £1 billion annually.

 

The Department for Work and Pensions reported it would take an estimated £940 million to unfreeze pensions in 2024-25. While officials insist information is clear on retirement financial impacts, Lee and others find this unsatisfactory. "We've paid in, so we deserve annual increases," he argued.

 

For expats like Lee, the reality is stark—a life of rising prices and tightened budgets, far removed from the warm retirement once imagined under the Thai sun.

 

  Adapted by ASEAN Now from The Thaiger 2025-04-28

 

 

[worgeordie]

Not the Christopher Lee ,I knew , We all would like more pension ,but the Government

won't give it ,they need the money for all the immigrants ,but Chris knew coming here

what the situation was , myself I get 90 quid a week ,because I retired early ,it is what

it is , no way is the Government going to help us ,it's like out of sight out of mind , 

 

regards Worgeordie

[JoePai]

adjusting overseas pensions would cost nearly £1 billion annually

 

Cannot use that on pensioners as all is needed for housing, feeding, clothing etc of the illegal immigrants

[Bannoi]

If they can take the winter fuel allowance away from UK pensioners then there is no way they are going to give an increase to a pensioner living in Thailand.

 

There is a way around it though move back to UK get the increase then move back to Thailand or if you move to Philippines you would get the increase every year.

 

I agree it's not fair but its not going to change, a pensioner living in Thailand is very low down on the list of priorities. (They don't vote}

[jas007]

I'm not from the UK, but I'm pretty sure this problem is going to get a lot worse in the coming months and years as inflation picks up, worldwide. There's too much debt in the world and, for the central banks of the world, the way out is inflation.  Money printing.  More and more money printing. 

 

What happens to these Brits if they return home?  Will they again receive the current rate in the UK?  Or are they stuck forever with a frozen pension?  And let's say they do go back for a year or so, what happens then if they return to Thailand? Frozen at the new rate, or do they revert to what it was when they first retired to Thailand? 

[impulse]

While that well and truly sucks, I suspect he's doing better than a retiree that's getting the full adjusted pension back in the UK.  The saving grace back home is that a retiree can pick up some work.  Not legal in Thailand.

 

It should be a cautionary tale for anyone retiring with nothing but a state pension.  You really need a nestegg, or you're going to struggle.

 

Edit:  On an aside, why not move to the Philippines?

 

[JonnyF]

It is indeed immoral.

 

But the British government doesn't care about the indigenous people of Britain who paid into the system all their lives, especially if they are old and working class. 

[smedly]

this guy has not been drawing a uk state pension for 10 years although I do agree with the point made

[smedly]

41 minutes ago, impulse said:

While that well and truly sucks, I suspect he's doing better than a retiree that's getting the full adjusted pension back in the UK.

when I came to live in Thailand the exchange rate was 76baht to the pound, exchange rates are by far more significant than state pension increases, I'm not old enough yet to claim a uk state pension

[quake]

1 hour ago, Bannoi said:

I agree it's not fair but its not going to change, a pensioner living in Thailand is very low down on the list of priorities. (They don't vote}

 

Expat pensioners are not even on the list. 

[Briggsy]

Assuming a 'triple lock' average annual increase of 3%, after 10 years, an annual pension of £10,000 should become

 

10,000 x (1.03)^10 = £13,439.

 

So, the pensioner living in Thailand is losing £3439/13439 = 25.6% of his pension in Year 10.

 

I would say that is significant.

 

(Funny how people always choose the highest rate of exchange when mentioning exchange rates. It hasn't been over 50 Baht to the £ in the last 5 years!)

[Patong2021]

16 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It is indeed immoral.

 

But the British government doesn't care about the indigenous people of Britain who paid into the system all their lives, especially if they are old and working class. 

 

No it is not. He is more likely to be being paid out more than what he paid in. It is an acknowledged fact that National Insurance contributions do not fully cover the cost of pension payouts for the majority of beneficiaries. It is not the UK taxpayer's fault that Thailand did not agree to a social security agreement with the UK. The EEA group of nations, the Philippines , much of the  larger Commonwealth Caribbean countries, Turkey and the USA  have an agreement.   He picked Thailand, a nation without an agreement.

 

There is no reciprocal  agreement with the UK. If there was, he could get his adjustment. It takes 2 to make an agreement and Thailand did not agree.

 

As a resident of Thailand, he is not paying any UK income tax is he? He pays his tax in Thailand, and most likely is at a lower tax rate than in the UK.  None of what he receives is  spent in the UK in  goods and services nor paid in taxes to the crown.

 

The pensioners in the UK are  paying taxes in the UK  on their income in excess of  £12,570 and they pay VAT and  many, pay council tax either in full or in part. The cost of living is higher for UK residents than it is for Thailand residents.  The UK pensioners spend their pensions in the UK  and many have a part  of their pensions clawed back by the UK government. 

 

[impulse]

Honest question here...  Other than "I like Thailand" (or the Thai family) what would be the impediment to picking up sticks, cashing in your 400K baht (or 800K) and moving to the Philippines?  I'm looking more for a comparison of the legal and financial hurdles than a discussion of the relative merits of life in LOS vs Phils..  Is that even doable?

 

And if a Brit did move to the Phils, would their pension be boosted all at once or would it just start where it was in Thailand and be adjusted each year?

 

 

[tmd5855]

In the same boat as him, took my UK OAP in 2021 aged 66. 

 

But, more fortunate than him, have a Merchant Navy Officers pension (38yrs) were contracted out of SERP's so received a lower OAP even though had paid 'Class 1 NI' for 42years, receive 139.65p a week, but, tax at 20% is taken since my MNOPF pension is over 12,570GBP (Personal tax free allowance) so receive in my hand 111.72p a week for paying 'Class 1' all my working life.

Went back the UK for my sons wedding informed DWP, pension jumped up 16.35p to 156GBP, but after tax the increase 13 pounds.

 

What gets me is the amount of money we paid into National Insurance that increased as your years and salary increased.  Yet, you live in the wrong country your entitlement (You paid in) is frozen.  Morally it is wrong, I am okay since the OAP is a bonus, but!!!!

To many folk it is their sole lifeline, lifebelt and life jacket.  Those pensioners are not using public services like the Health Service.

 

Reform party scares me a little knowing history of popular/reactionary parties, but if Reform said:

When in power OAP will not be taxed and the tax basic allowance will be raised as if never frozen by the Tories. 

They would get my postal vote?

 

PS.  If he were a banker??  How many years??  Should have a good private pension.

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, JonnyF said:

It is indeed immoral.

 

But the British government doesn't care about the indigenous people of Britain who paid into the system all their lives, especially if they are old and working class. 

 

The govts want pensioners to keep pumping money into the local economy.

Since you are spending all your pension in Thailand, this is one way of punishing people for not contributing to the local economy in the UK. 

Call it what you will. They see it as unfair that all pension money is being spent in another country. 

 

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

At 70, the former banker relies on a weekly £137 (6,150 baht) after a SERPS top-up,

How could that happen to a "former banker"?

[tmd5855]

4 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

As a resident of Thailand, he is not paying any UK income tax is he? He pays his tax in Thailand, and most likely is at a lower tax rate than in the UK.  None of what he receives is  spent in the UK in  goods and services nor paid in taxes to the crown. 

Pay UK taxes on my pension

Pay Thai taxes on behalf of the Thai company that owns the land my house is built on which cannot be offset against UK tax.  I have tried.

 

Making a general/catch all statement may cover 80%+ of expats here. 

But, many of us living here (20+yrs) do not have general/run of the mill applicable to all circumstances.

[bkk6060]

I really feel sorry for Chris certainly one of the lowest, if not the lowest pension of advanced countries.  Probably below the poverty level in some.

For 2025 the highest U.S. Social Security is a whooping $5,000 usd a month and that includes COLA every year!

Another reason I guess the UK folks seem to have negative attitude toward their supposed allie the USA.  Jealous and hateful about the money?

 

[Ben Zioner]

6 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

For 2025 the highest U.S. Social Security is a whooping $5,000 usd a month and that includes COLA every year!

Is this what you refer to? High incomes seem to be grossly disadvantaged, looks even more communist than EU pensions.

 

[JonnyF]

14 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

The govts want pensioners to keep pumping money into the local economy.

 

The government should not tell pensioners where/what to spend their money on. They paid money into the system all their lives. They should get the benefit at the end of it, no matter where they retire. 

 

14 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Since you are spending all your pension in Thailand, this is one way of punishing people for not contributing to the local economy in the UK. 

 

Well, I am not even close to being a pensioner and I chose to invest privately rather than into the state system. As UK government's become increasingly dishonest, increasing the retirement age and then freezing the already woeful UK pension for foreign retirees, I am quite pleased with my decision. My financial future is not dicated by dishonest British politicians. 

 

14 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Call it what you will. They see it as unfair that all pension money is being spent in another country. 

 

 

It's just an excuse to limit the payouts after years of paying in. Immoral is what I call it. 

[frank83628]

Sorry but if after 60yrs of working you only have the state pension to survive on you werent very good with your money.

[Stocky]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

At 70, the former banker relies on a weekly £137 (6,150 baht) after a SERPS top-up, opposed to the current UK basic pension of £176.45 (7,880 baht). In Thailand, one of many countries on the UK’s 'frozen pensions' list, Lee and others see their pensions diminish amidst rising costs.

Moron should have done his homework

[billd766]

The frozen pension rule, (not a law) has been in effect since 1947 and any expat retiring to Thailand should have known that if they had done any research before moving ro Thailand to retire.

 

I am 80 and I still pay income tax in the UK even though I paid national insurance contributions for 44 years.

 

The only legal way NOT to pay income tax that I know of is when your ONLY UK income is below the GBP 12,500 tax free threshold.

 

The internet has been up and running for more than 10 years. Before that, and even now the DWP and/or HMRC could have told him that his pension would be frozen from the day he moved to Thailand, IF he had bothered to ask.

 

As an alternative, TVF would have told him the same thing 10 years or more ago.

[lordgrinz]

24 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I really feel sorry for Chris certainly one of the lowest, if not the lowest pension of advanced countries.  Probably below the poverty level in some.

For 2025 the highest U.S. Social Security is a whooping $5,000 usd a month and that includes COLA every year!

Another reason I guess the UK folks seem to have negative attitude toward their supposed allie the USA.  Jealous and hateful about the money?

 

 

I assume they pay less in than us American's, we pay in 12.4% of our pay to the US government Ponzi scheme. 

[billd766]

1 minute ago, Stocky said:

Moron should have done his homework

Whilst I agree with your conclusion, I would have suggest that he was foolish more than a moron.

 

quote from the OP

 

2 hours ago, webfact said:
At 70, the former banker relies on a weekly £137 (6,150 baht) after a SERPS top-up, opposed to the current UK basic pension of £176.45 (7,880 baht). In Thailand, one of many countries on the UK’s 'frozen pensions' list, Lee and others see their pensions diminish amidst rising costs.

 

As a former banker he should have known better

[Stocky]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

As a former banker he should have known better

Exactly, so in my book that makes him a moron, harsh but fair

 

Though given he's seemingly reliant on a state pension only, 'Banker' might be an exaggeration, former bank employee might be more accurate.

[jonesthepost]

35 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

The govts want pensioners to keep pumping money into the local economy.

Since you are spending all your pension in Thailand, this is one way of punishing people for not contributing to the local economy in the UK. 

Call it what you will. They see it as unfair that all pension money is being spent in another country. 

 

Not true if that is case how come they pay the full increse to some who live some countrys and not other 

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, jonesthepost said:

Not true if that is case how come they pay the full increse to some who live some countrys and not other 

 

I don't know. If that's the case, then there must be some sort of agreement with the other countries.

Then maybe my theory is off. 

 

[nglodnig]

2 hours ago, Bannoi said:

I agree it's not fair but its not going to change, a pensioner living in Thailand is very low down on the list of priorities. (They don't vote}

Actually now they can - previoulsy after 15 years you were dropped from the electoral register - now if you apply you can be re-instated at the last place you were registered

 

[Moonlover]

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

The frozen pension rule, (not a law) has been in effect since 1947 and any expat retiring to Thailand should have known that if they had done any research before moving ro Thailand to retire.

 

I am 80 and I still pay income tax in the UK even though I paid national insurance contributions for 44 years.

 

The only legal way NOT to pay income tax that I know of is when your ONLY UK income is below the GBP 12,500 tax free threshold.

 

The internet has been up and running for more than 10 years. Before that, and even now the DWP and/or HMRC could have told him that his pension would be frozen from the day he moved to Thailand, IF he had bothered to ask.

 

As an alternative, TVF would have told him the same thing 10 years or more ago.

I agree with you. It does seem somewhat incredulous that a 'former banker' of all professions would not have been aware of the implications of moving to Thailand. I've always been under the impression that being 'something in banking', to coin a phrase, was a good safe haven when it comes to retirement.

 

I'm in much the same situation as you are but I'm doing just fine here on my pensions, despite the cap on my state pension and I'm basically crap when it comes to money management.