6 hours ago, Millian said:

Got some examples, or stats on this?

 

Yes thanks but it's spread across many websites - the information is out there and in 2024 so many left that it was far more than many previous years combined with predicted results for this year also very high.

 

It's OK though as the intent was to make the rich pay - which worked - so they left. Job done, except now they're running out of other peoples money.

 

There's a long history of this kind of policy failure over the decades and nearly all of them were eventually rolled back and abolished.

 

So either they're completely and utterly incompetent or planned this.

 

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

 

I concur. It's called flexible accounting, commonly used along with flexible lawyers.

 

Some people with no first-hand experience doing serious business in Thailand can't really comprehend how things are managed in this country, and end up flooding forum threads worrying uselessly about tax law and rules compliance. Yet, everything is negotiable here and expected to be.

 

I've seen people running successful businesses in Thailand and other failed. The successful ones have always adapted to the Thai system, while the ones who failed were systematically trying to strictly stick to the rules wasting time, energy, to eventually losing their business.

 

No argument from me.  I agree.

 

Rather than possibly leave myself open to extortion at a later date, my decision was to be proactive and take it out of corrupt official's hands.  I posted on this forum in 2024 that I would be filing, declaring, paying, and receiving proof of payment.  There was no secret.  Once again, I just see it as compliance for living in Thailand, permanently. 

 

As I minimized my remittances, we are not talking about a lot of baht.  A foreigner owns my condo.  He has Wise.  I now pay him through Wise, rather than to his Thai bank account.  He's happy, and so am I.  We both cut out the Thai bank and the TRD for this amount each month.  

 

The flip side to your post is, I have also seen many here take short cuts.  Some in business, but mostly  individuals, usually around property, by simply putting the property in their Thai girl's name, you using Thai nominees. 

 

I didn't take any short cuts on this one.  I don't see it as losing money.  I see it as covering my a**.  It's the price I pay to deal with any nasty surprises the Thai government might come up with in the future. 

 

Yes, I use agents for just about everything here.  The less I have to deal with Thai officials the better, and all my documents are in order.  As you allude to, I have created the illusion of compliance, which is all the Thai's care about. 

 

Will it all fizzle out, maybe.  Will they tighten the screws, maybe.  Either way, I'm good for this year.  I'll decide next year whether to do the same, or do nothing, but sleeping well knowing they can't bite me on the a**. 

Is their now already any clarity on if credit card payments with a foreign credit card for purchases in Thailand are remittances?

And if yes, then I guess a flight back to Thailand is not a remittance since it is not for something in Thailand?

Thank you.

2 hours ago, K2938 said:

Is their now already any clarity on if credit card payments with a foreign credit card for purchases in Thailand are remittances?

And if yes, then I guess a flight back to Thailand is not a remittance since it is not for something in Thailand?

Thank you.

 

There is no definitive answer, but TRD seem to hedge it with "as long as you're not making an obvious habit of it with large purchases", which is utterly meaningless.

 

Furthermore, the latest Expat Tax (ET) webinars (with their tame TRD officer) say that the touted (in BP) changes will not take effect this year. Again, only sayso. In addition, ET included an IMM officer regarding tax certificates for visa renewals/extensions. Those for Retirement on a monthly income basis are taxable, those on money in the bank are not. Whether anyone is experiencing this at IMM will be interesting to know, or whether it is just an opinion, (albeit from an IMM officer) is another matter.

 

All these things are up in the air, and likely to get more vague as the governance of Thailand lurches in the coming weeks. 

7 minutes ago, samtam said:

There is no definitive answer, but TRD seem to hedge it with "as long as you're not making an obvious habit of it with large purchases", which is utterly meaningless.

Thank you so much for your tremendously insightful and helpful answer.  Just as a follow-on may I ask where the TRC stated that credit cards are ok "as long as you're not making an obvious habit of it with large purchases" or something similar?  Thank you!

 

 

1 hour ago, K2938 said:

Thank you so much for your tremendously insightful and helpful answer.  Just as a follow-on may I ask where the TRC stated that credit cards are ok "as long as you're not making an obvious habit of it with large purchases" or something similar?  Thank you!

 

 

 

The same source I mentioned - Expat Tax in one of their webinars. It was a "fudged" answer. But there really isn't anything specific, as it's not directly addressed.

 

As far as your specific question, buying an airline ticket, I really don't think I would concern myself with that. I tied myself into knots trying to classify what is and isn't a "remittance" for my first tax file (FYE 2024), and frankly it seems to have been a complete waste of time, energy and anxiety. They simply do not know.

7 hours ago, K2938 said:

Is their now already any clarity on if credit card payments with a foreign credit card for purchases in Thailand are remittances?

And if yes, then I guess a flight back to Thailand is not a remittance since it is not for something in Thailand?

Thank you.

You want clarity?

 

IMO - not a single person has ever paid thai tax on a foreign credit card purchase.

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, samtam said:

 

. In addition, ET included an IMM officer regarding tax certificates for visa renewals/extensions. Those for Retirement on a monthly income basis are taxable, those on money in the bank are not. Whether anyone is experiencing this at IMM will be interesting to know, or whether it is just an opinion, (albeit from an IMM officer) is another matter.

Jing lor? (Really?) 

So the pet Immigration officer is stating retirement visa extensions using the income method require a Thai tax return?

If this was even remotely close to the truth - you'd be seeing it in multiple reports across the forum.

Have I missed something?

But as is usual with anything from this "agency",  it's a sly fabrication slickly presented as fact. 

Be very careful with anything you read or see from this source. 

 

 

5 hours ago, samtam said:

 

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

So the pet Immigration officer is stating retirement visa extensions using the income method require a Thai tax return?

He definitely said so. My understanding was that immigration would now use the Thai tax return as a proof of 65K/month (40K for marriage extension). Which makes sense I reckon as the one of the topic of the webinar was the cooperation between RTP, TRD and IO. 

 

He also kept repeating "don't worry, be a law abiding subject..", which we all are, aren't we?

10 minutes ago, Peter Crow said:

He definitely said so. My understanding was that immigration would now use the Thai tax return as a proof of 65K/month (40K for marriage extension). Which makes sense I reckon as the one of the topic of the webinar was the cooperation between RTP, TRD and IO. 

 

He also kept repeating "don't worry, be a law abiding subject..", which we all are, aren't we?

 

No he didn't say that. He said that monthly income is taxable, not that they need a tax certificate to renew their extension

14 hours ago, samtam said:

In addition, ET included an IMM officer regarding tax certificates for visa renewals/extensions. Those for Retirement on a monthly income basis are taxable, those on money in the bank are not.

 

 

But those using the Money in the Bank method are certainly remitting funds, for living expenses, which would call for a tax return to be filed? Not sure it makes sense that they are excluded?

 

Changing the requirements for visa extensions so significantly would require a lot of advanced notice given the thousands of people affected.

 

Have these "Tax Certificates" been issued to date, to those who have filed returns?

 

 

8 hours ago, CallumWK said:

 

No he didn't say that. He said that monthly income is taxable, not that they need a tax certificate to renew their extension

Ridiculous, anyhow I strongly encourage everyone to watch the webinar, and in doubt, ask Carl Turner what his understanding is.

7 minutes ago, Peter Crow said:

and in doubt, ask Carl Turner what his understanding is.

His understanding is not of any help. Where in doubt in Thailand, always get information from the horse's mouth i.e. Thai authority.

4 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

His understanding is not of any help. Where in doubt in Thailand, always get information from the horse's mouth i.e. Thai authority.

Yep, he just organised and facilitated the webinar.

1 hour ago, bamnutsak said:

Have these "Tax Certificates" been issued to date, to those who have filed returns?

 

They are not issued as part of the tax return process.  They are applied for seperately, normally within 2 weeks of travel.

11 minutes ago, treetops said:

 

They are not issued as part of the tax return process.  They are applied for seperately, normally within 2 weeks of travel.

 

"Travel"? Is departing Immigration checking for these Tax Certificates? (Most of us the automated lanes departing.)

 

<Yes, I know these were required sometime last century.>

 

Do you have to have filed a return in order to apply for a Tax Certificate?

 

Or can you "apply" for a Tax Certificate without having filed a return?

 

Do you file for a Tax Certificate at the same RD office where you filed your return?

 

Has anyone here had to apply for a Tax Certificate in order to renew their extension?

 

1 minute ago, bamnutsak said:

"Travel"? Is departing Immigration checking for these Tax Certificates? (Most of us the automated lanes departing.)

 

No-one is checking for these certificates, but when they were issued they were only valid for a couple of weeks (a multiple entry (exit) style version lasting longer was available if justifiable).

 

I doubt if they were even thought about by those specifying the auto exit lane requirements.

 

I don't know the answer to the rest of your questions and expect to never have to find out.

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

His understanding is not of any help. Where in doubt in Thailand, always get information from the horse's mouth i.e. Thai authority.

 

His webinars featured "the Thai authority", as in TRD officer and IMM officer. But perhaps the directors of these fine government departments themselves could produce something definitive, although even these directives tend to bend, depending on the wind.

10 hours ago, Peter Crow said:

Ridiculous, anyhow I strongly encourage everyone to watch the webinar, and in doubt, ask Carl Turner what his understanding is.

 

 

That webinar was a joke. Zero credibility.

 

Firstly, they state a tax return is a document required for a retirement extension using the income method. 

 

This is false, there's never been a report anywhere to that effect. If there was -it'd be all over this forum and other places.

 

So simply, patently untrue. 

 

Secondly - they state a tax return isn't required for a retirement extension using the "800k in the bank" method.

 

Thai taxation is based on income, for foreign income it's based on "remitted". 

 

The 65k monthly income can come from savings ( non assessable, non taxable) or other types of non assessable income e.g. US social security, or remittance of capital.

 

Therefore a retirement extension based on the income method-  can be qualified for with no obligation or need to file a Thai tax return.

 

Equally, the 800k in the bank can come from remitted foreign taxable income and therefore give rise to technically an obligation to file a tax return. 

 

So their statements on this are simply, complete rubbish.

 

There is currently,  no link at all between thai taxation and the retirement visa.

 

As much as the predatory tax agencies would like you to think there is, there isn't. 

47 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

 

That webinar was a joke. Zero credibility.

 

Firstly, they state a tax return is a document required for a retirement extension using the income method. 

 

This is false, there's never been a report anywhere to that effect. If there was -it'd be all over this forum and other places.

 

So simply, patently untrue. 

 

Secondly - they state a tax return isn't required for a retirement extension using the "800k in the bank" method.

 

Thai taxation is based on income, for foreign income it's based on "remitted". 

 

The 65k monthly income can come from savings ( non assessable, non taxable) or other types of non assessable income e.g. US social security, or remittance of capital.

 

Therefore a retirement extension based on the income method-  can be qualified for with no obligation or need to file a Thai tax return.

 

Equally, the 800k in the bank can come from remitted foreign taxable income and therefore give rise to technically an obligation to file a tax return. 

 

So their statements on this are simply, complete rubbish.

 

There is currently,  no link at all between thai taxation and the retirement visa.

 

As much as the predatory tax agencies would like you to think there is, there isn't. 

 

I think you miss the point completely. Basically two things were said [in 45 minute].

 

a) If someone doesn't comply with his tax obligation TRD will report the culprit to TRP who will obtain a court order to catch the delinquent, who could then be stopped from leaving the country by TI. Simple, and we have known that for a while.

 

b) Since a monthly income of 65000 (40000 for marriage) is required to obtain an extension of stay based on income this income must have been reported to TRD.  They won't ask for such certificate to check whether you are tax compliant, but they will use it to verify that your income complies with the 65k/40k requirement. 

 

So Tax enforcement in a) and smart use of tax data by immigration in b): the new world of Thai interdepartmental cooperation.

 

Now you can keep screaming, kicking and hissing, but that's the plan, of some people in the administrations at least, it may well proceed though, with a few hiccups.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Peter Crow said:

but they will use it to verify that your income complies with the 65k/40k requirement. 

So we will have to await a report from someone renewing their extension based on this to see when (if ever) it gets put in place.

 

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

There is currently,  no link at all between thai taxation and the retirement visa.

One has to wonder who got the Immigration guy involved and why as I am sure they did not offer........

How senior was he supposedly?

51 minutes ago, Peter Crow said:

monthly income of 65000 (40000 for marriage) is required to obtain an extension of stay

AFAIK 65000 income is not required. 

A monthly remittance to Thailand of 65000 is required.  It doesn't have to be income (meaning assessable income according to the Revenue Code). 

It could be money drawn from old savings, as @anrcaccountexplained. 

 

Now, that's farang logic. Good knows what Thai officials think.

1 hour ago, Peter Crow said:

So Tax enforcement in a) and smart use of tax data by immigration in b): the new world of Thai interdepartmental cooperation.

If that scenario -quite unlikely- happens, I predict it will be a one-shot event to collect funds as most of foreign taxpayers will become non tax residents for the next tax year, remit and spend the least amount of money to mitigate/dismiss their tax liability, or even leave Thailand for good.

1 hour ago, Peter Crow said:

I think you miss the point completely. Basically two things were said [in 45 minute].

 

Sorry, no. It is you that has missed the point. 

 

1 hour ago, Peter Crow said:

 

a) If someone doesn't comply with his tax obligation TRD will report the culprit to TRP who will obtain a court order to catch the delinquent, who could then be stopped from leaving the country by TI. Simple, and we have known that for a while.

 

 

No, because it has never happened - and 99% of retired foreigners living in Thailand have never filed a Thai tax return. Have you ever heard of a single "culprit"? 

 

This agency is making things up to drive business - classic fear mongering.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Peter Crow said:

b) Since a monthly income of 65000 (40000 for marriage) is required to obtain an extension of stay based on income this income must have been reported to TRD.  They won't ask for such certificate to check whether you are tax compliant, but they will use it to verify that your income complies with the 65k/40k requirement. 

 

 

No, the required 65k is simply funds remitted to Thailand. There has never been, nor is now, any requirement that these funds are "income" or have been subject to Thai taxation. There is no "verification". 

 

Again, they are are making this up. 

1 hour ago, topt said:

So we will have to await a report from someone renewing their extension based on this to see when (if ever) it gets put in place.

 

Yes - if this was actually true- we'd see these reports immediately. There are significant numbers of foreigners extending these visas every week.

 

 

1 hour ago, topt said:

 

One has to wonder who got the Immigration guy involved and why as I am sure they did not offer........

How senior was he supposedly?

 

No need to wonder, the predatory agency paid him for sure, and why?

 

Pretty clear!

 

How senior?

 

I'd be surprised if he's anything other than a former employee.

 

He states he "used to" work for immigration.....

 

 

42 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

He states he "used to" work for immigration.....

Thanks.

As I haven't tried to watch it If that is correct then it sounds very suss. 

I recall previously there were 2 scaremongers pushing this conspiracy theory in every thread.

 

The biggest one (Heineken) is still around.

 

Now we have a newbie pushing the same conspiracy. I don't remember who was the second scaremonger, but is he still around?

I keep up with this issue by watching Benjamin Hart's "Integrity Legal" YT channel. I'm convinced that most of us have nothing to worry about. If tax is due, i'll pay it and then trot over to Cambodia to live.

4 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

I keep up with this issue by watching Benjamin Hart's "Integrity Legal" YT channel. I'm convinced that most of us have nothing to worry about. If tax is due, i'll pay it and then trot over to Cambodia to live.

 

The proposed new change about same year income and previous year income which is supposedly making its way towards a Royal Decree will nullify all of this for the vast majority of people if it ever shows up.

 

Of course recent political 'alterations' might change that - but maybe not as it's still the same party in charge at the moment.

So a lot hinges on that supposedly proposed Royal Decree to encourage remittances really.

 

3 hours ago, ukrules said:

So a lot hinges on that supposedly proposed Royal Decree to encourage remittances really.

 

just keep in mind, even the royal decree is getting through, the current tax law is still in place for at least till end of 2025 ... although not active enforced ...