Fact-checking Trump and Miller’s claims of a ‘migrant invasion’ in California

[MangoKorat]

On 6/15/2025 at 3:45 AM, NorthernRyland said:

 

So they found a great way to exploit cheap labor and not have to pay Americans a higher wage. Consumers have cheaper food and they don't care about it got that way. 

 

Even if it's really true that no Americans will do that work for any reasonable about of money then let them be TEMPORARY workers. Your children never get citizenship and you need to go back home after some term like 5 years. Do this when you're young, save up some money and then go back home when it's time to have a family.

 

There's enough poor young people in South American to create a never ending supply of fresh backs they agricultural industry can break.

 

Well that's the way of the world.  I'm not saying I agree with it, in fact I don't but its how it is.  We have a similar problem in the UK - the government has been limiting the number of seasonal agricultural workers which is causing problems for the farmers.

 

I used to say that food is far too cheap, if paying decent wages means higher food prices, so be it.  However, I had a conversation with a local farmer about it and he said that if he increased his prices, the supermarkets would buy from abroad.

 

I think its complicated, there's no one answer but the supermarkets, certainly in the UK hold a lot of guilt for the situation.  They screw farmers down to the boards on price - especially on dairy products where many farmers are getting out. They sell milk for example, at ridiculously low prices and when they are challenged about the prices they pay farmers, they say its public demand.  That's BS, I've never seen placard waving housewives outside supermarkets demanding milk at the current prices.  Asda, one of the biggest is now selling whole milk at 68.2p per litre (30 baht).  Yes, milk isn't normally an area where immigrant workers are involved, I'm just illustrating the problem using a price I know. (interesting that the UK public will pay around 400 baht per litre for beer)

 

So the causes are probably the same in the US.  During Covid the UK government started realising that food security was an issue and said they would introduce measures to safeguard the UK food production industry - seems to have been forgotten about now.  Until farmers are able to get a decent price for their products, they will look at any way they can to keep costs low.

 

I don't think your temporary workers suggestion would solve much - people would enter on that visa and simply disappear.

[MangoKorat]

On 6/15/2025 at 3:51 AM, Yellowtail said:

Illegal immigration benefits the rich and hurts the poor. That's why the left loves it.

Eh? I don't deny that the rich benefit from illegal immigration but why would a socialist leaning person love the poor being hurt. Does left wing in the US mean the opposite of what is does everywhere else?

[NorthernRyland]

17 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I don't think your temporary workers suggestion would solve much - people would enter on that visa and simply disappear.

 

I agree with everything you said, there's no simple solution here since the world economy has gone global and there's always a push and pull between consumers and labor.

 

The temporary workers aren't a solution to the problem, I'm just saying we can profit off their labor and not become entangled with the people themselves and their cultures and habits.

 

That's exactly what Thailand does and while of course I would love full access in undeniable that's not in the interest of the Thai people and so I support their policy.

[Yellowtail]

19 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Eh? I don't deny that the rich benefit from illegal immigration but why would a socialist leaning person love the poor being hurt. Does left wing in the US mean the opposite of what is does everywhere else?

I will not speak to "everywhere else", but it seems the same in places I am familiar with.

 

Where are you from? 

 

I know in the US, it is important to the left that the poor remain poor and dependent on the government because they need the votes. 

 

What other explanation is there for importing poor, low and no skilled people that are often illiterate in their native language, much less English, and that will likely never assimilate be on public assistance for life? 

 

Millions of people flooding onto a country increases the size of government, drives wages down, drives housing costs up, reduces the quality and availability of social services, overburdens public schools which forces up the cost of education, while at the same time reduces the quality of education. 

 

So, you end up with a permanent underclass, that is dependent on the government, that pay no income taxes and that will consistently vote for higher taxes on the "rich" and more benefits for the "poor". 

 

 

 

[MangoKorat]

54 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I will not speak to "everywhere else", but it seems the same in places I am familiar with.

 

Where are you from? 

 

I know in the US, it is important to the left that the poor remain poor and dependent on the government because they need the votes. 

 

What other explanation is there for importing poor, low and no skilled people that are often illiterate in their native language, much less English, and that will likely never assimilate be on public assistance for life? 

 

Millions of people flooding onto a country increases the size of government, drives wages down, drives housing costs up, reduces the quality and availability of social services, overburdens public schools which forces up the cost of education, while at the same time reduces the quality of education. 

 

So, you end up with a permanent underclass, that is dependent on the government, that pay no income taxes and that will consistently vote for higher taxes on the "rich" and more benefits for the "poor". 

 

 

 

Sorry, I don't understand your reasoning at all.  In every country I know, the left wing fight for the poor - or at least claim to.

 

'Millions of people flooding onto a country increases the size of government, drives wages down, drives housing costs up, reduces the quality and availability of social services, overburdens public schools which forces up the cost of education, while at the same time reduces the quality of education.'

 

Why would the left wing love that?

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Sorry, I don't understand your reasoning at all.  In every country I know, the left wing fight for the poor - or at least claim to.

I do not disagree that they claim to. 

5 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

 

'Millions of people flooding onto a country increases the size of government, drives wages down, drives housing costs up, reduces the quality and availability of social services, overburdens public schools which forces up the cost of education, while at the same time reduces the quality of education.'

 

Why would the left wing love that?

Is the left not always for bigger government? 

 

As I said, the result of mass migration is that you end up with a permanent underclass, that is dependent on the government, that pay no income taxes and that will consistently vote for higher taxes on the "rich" and more benefits for the "poor". 

 

All votes for the left. 

[candide]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I do not disagree that they claim to. 

Is the left not always for bigger government? 

 

As I said, the result of mass migration is that you end up with a permanent underclass, that is dependent on the government, that pay no income taxes and that will consistently vote for higher taxes on the "rich" and more benefits for the "poor". 

 

All votes for the left. 

And that's why the poverty rate tends to be higher in red states than in blue states! 🤣

 

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-poverty-rates-by-u-s-state/#google_vignette