1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

And the BYDs look just like the Tesla

The Chinese copy everything - they have very little 'originality'.  They make things in China very cheaply on licence and then steal the technology and then copy it - that has been going on for decades. Tesla has 'special' bits and software that they refuse to allow to be done/made in other cheap labour countries - to protect their IP after many years and lots of development and design and testing and refining.  There is only so much 'reverse engineering' that the Chinese can do with a Tesla.  

BYD vs Tesla

5 minutes ago, UWEB said:

Tesla 3 is the most non reliable Car in Germany as per TUEV Germany, not a sign of serious reliable high Quality.

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/11/tesla-model-3-comes-bottom-in-german-tuv-reliability-test-again/

Did you read the whole report? Or just the headline?? Me thinks just the headline !!

I just read it - lighting problems were the vast majority of 'faults' in all model cars - but especially Teslas.

Not that they did not work, but that they had diminished from their original specs

Example of public service BS tests - 90W instead of 100W - fail.  80W as per specs - pass. 

 

2 – 3 years	Tesla Model 3	14.2%
	Ford Mondeo	13.2%
	Skoda Scala	11.8%
4 – 5 years	Tesla Model 3	19.7%
	VW Sharan	17.7%
	BMW 5/6 Series	17.7%

 

I am sure there is another 'survey' somewhere that says a high percentage of Tesla owners in Germany will not buy another Tesla.  But the reason is because the country is extremely left wing and Musk sided with Trump - but the headline will be "Tesla owners will not buy another Tesla".  All BS and PR and Marketing - same as the Chinese EV cars themselves - until they prove themselves over 5-10 years.  Teslas have been sold in Germany since 2012/13? Read the report - the list of cars failing after 5-10 years has no Teslas listed.

1 minute ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Did you read the whole report? Or just the headline?? Me thinks just the headline !!

I just read it - lighting problems were the vast majority of 'faults' in all model cars - but especially Teslas.

Not that they did not work, but that they had diminished from their original specs

Example of public service BS tests - 90W instead of 100W - fail.  80W as per specs - pass. 

 

2 – 3 years	Tesla Model 3	14.2%
	Ford Mondeo	13.2%
	Skoda Scala	11.8%
4 – 5 years	Tesla Model 3	19.7%
	VW Sharan	17.7%
	BMW 5/6 Series	17.7%

 

I am sure there is another 'survey' somewhere that says a high percentage of Tesla owners in Germany will not buy another Tesla.  But the reason is because the country is extremely left wing and Musk sided with Trump - but the headline will be "Tesla owners will not buy another Tesla".  All BS and PR and Marketing - same as the Chinese EV cars themselves - until they prove themselves over 5-10 years.  Teslas have been sold in Germany since 2012/13? Read the report - the list of cars failing after 5-10 years has no Teslas listed.

Yeah, Tesla's all turned to junk the moment Elon jumped the fence. 

2 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Did you read the whole report? Or just the headline?? Me thinks just the headline !!

I just read it - lighting problems were the vast majority of 'faults' in all model cars - but especially Teslas.

Not that they did not work, but that they had diminished from their original specs

Example of public service BS tests - 90W instead of 100W - fail.  80W as per specs - pass. 

 

2 – 3 years	Tesla Model 3	14.2%
	Ford Mondeo	13.2%
	Skoda Scala	11.8%
4 – 5 years	Tesla Model 3	19.7%
	VW Sharan	17.7%
	BMW 5/6 Series	17.7%

 

I am sure there is another 'survey' somewhere that says a high percentage of Tesla owners in Germany will not buy another Tesla.  But the reason is because the country is extremely left wing and Musk sided with Trump - but the headline will be "Tesla owners will not buy another Tesla".  All BS and PR and Marketing - same as the Chinese EV cars themselves - until they prove themselves over 5-10 years.  Teslas have been sold in Germany since 2012/13? Read the report - the list of cars failing after 5-10 years has no Teslas listed.

You are talking nonsense, German TUEV is one of the most recognized Organization world wide in inspecting and certifying Equipment.

Just now, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, Tesla's all turned to junk the moment Elon jumped the fence. 

Funny that - and yet they dont see it. They cannot 'compute' that beliefs are all based on feelings and not facts.  It is like 'girl math' - they were 'taught' math at school but they never really understood and they have no effin idea about reality.

 

4 minutes ago, UWEB said:

You are talking nonsense, German TUEV is one of the most recognized Organization world wide in inspecting and certifying Equipment.

We had TÜV do our ISO registration in Thailand. It was a joke. 

Just now, UWEB said:

You are talking nonsense, German TUEV is one of the most recognized Organization world wide in inspecting and certifying Equipment.

What a load of BS - you have no idea do you?  They test 'safety systems' and 'vehicle emissions'. The vehicle emissions are Govt set and a car passes or fails  - EVs always PASS.  The safety systems are what the manufacturers put in their cars - there are no 'standards' for the ABS system - there is a pass or a fail - and that is 1 - number 1.  So if a Tesla fails the lights test because they are not as bright as specs and the inside back left light is blown - that is 3 faults. Meanwhile the Ford that failed ABS is 1.   According to TUEV tests Teslas are THREE times less reliable as Fords !!!!  The study is NUMBER of faults - not what faults. Teslas have more light fails - but I want a car that does not fail ABS tests - way way way more important.  Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics. Never believe any 'study' that is based on statistics.  People do not die in Australian from Alligator attacks - fact.  Because in Australia there are no Alligators. But the Crocodiles kill way more people in Australia than Alligators do in UK - fact.  Statistics Lie !!  

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

We had TÜV do our ISO registration in Thailand. It was a joke. 

It is a BS 'test' done to meet mandatory Government regulations about 'safety and climate change'. Total and utter BS - do the lights work to the original specs??   It is about as useful as a vehicle inspection in Thailand - most cars here would not pass a test done in the West. 

3 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Your sales figures are as big a scam as the whole cheap Chinese EV market - you/they only listed Tesla Model 3 - Tesla has the 4th highest EV sales in Thailand. 

 

I only listed the top 10 EV sales,  if you wanted the whole list here it is.

 

If you are going to accuse people of being a big scammer, perhaps you should cite your sources. Here is my source citation:

https://autolifethailand.tv/total-ev-bev-register-2024-thailand/

 

On 7/4/2025 at 1:21 PM, Yellowtail said:

What is this claim based on?

 

 

Many years working as a motor trader.... car salesman for 5 manufacturers.... owner of garage business with car sales, body shop and workshop..... plus prices in ads for used Chinese cars in Thailand. ..... That enough for you?

@TroubleandGrumpy

 

I don’t think I’ve ever met someone who can be as wrong as you are.

10 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Many years working as a motor trader.... car salesman for 5 manufacturers.... owner of garage business with car sales, body shop and workshop..... plus prices in ads for used Chinese cars in Thailand. ..... That enough for you?

No, that's not enough to convince me that I could buy a used Chinese car less than a year old in Thailand for 50% off. 

 

Please post a few of the ads, I'm in the market. 

 

 

11 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Many years working as a motor trader.... car salesman for 5 manufacturers.... owner of garage business with car sales, body shop and workshop..... plus prices in ads for used Chinese cars in Thailand. ..... That enough for you?

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

No, that's not enough to convince me that I could buy a used Chinese car less than a year old in Thailand for 50% off. 

 

Please post a few of the ads, I'm in the market. 

 

 

I spent the first 5 years of my post university life as a trade buyer of cars too.

 

I’m also looking for a BYD Dolphin for my youngest daughter,about one year old, if you can find one at 50% depreciation, please let me know, hell no! If you can find one with 25% depreciation, let me know.

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I spent the first 5 years of my post university life as a trade buyer of cars too.

 

I’m also looking for a BYD Dolphin for my youngest daughter,about one year old, if you can find one at 50% depreciation, please let me know, hell no! If you can find one with 25% depreciation, let me know.

You cannot even find a Neta that less than a year old and is advertised at 50% off. 

 

I've been looking at the used Dolphins and have not seen any bargains. 

On 7/4/2025 at 4:28 PM, spidermike007 said:

That's a good looking car certainly much more handsome than either an MG, or the super ugly Teslas. 

You should see and feel the inside!   

20 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

BYD vs Tesla

 

You're probably not aware but the inspiration for the front of the BYD Seal is the Porsche Taycan.  It's nothing like the teSSla which is now a very old design.

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

 

You're probably not aware but the inspiration for the front of the BYD Seal is the Porsche Taycan.  It's nothing like the teSSla which is now a very old design.

I was joking, they look nothing alike. 

20 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

The Chinese copy everything - they have very little 'originality'.  They make things in China very cheaply on licence and then steal the technology and then copy it - that has been going on for decades. Tesla has 'special' bits and software that they refuse to allow to be done/made in other cheap labour countries - to protect their IP after many years and lots of development and design and testing and refining.  There is only so much 'reverse engineering' that the Chinese can do with a Tesla.  

 

The fact they are at least a generation ahead of the West with EV's would suggest they are leading rather than copying.

 

BYD Teardown | UBS Global

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I was joking, they look nothing alike. 

 

Also the BYD Seal does 0 to 100 in 3.8 seconds and the teSSla does 0 to 1939 in the same time.

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Also the BYD Seal does 0 to 100 in 3.8 seconds and the teSSla does 0 to 1939 in the same time.

100 what? 

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

100 what? 

 

units

 

 

 

(seriously though kilometers per hour)

I would buy a MG3 hybrid instead of an EV as it gets over 60 mpg. Probably can get it for half the price of a BYD Seal and twice the range. 

33 minutes ago, Furioso said:

I would buy a MG3 hybrid instead of an EV as it gets over 60 mpg. Probably can get it for half the price of a BYD Seal and twice the range. 

 

I wouldn't buy an MG, but I'd always buy a hybrid over EV.

 

Quicker to refuel.

More range.

More charging stations.

 

Plus all the cheaper EV's are Chinese and you never know if they wil go the same way as NETA. Spare parts can take a long time. I don't really like supporting the Chinese companies when they steal technology and treat their employees so badly either.  

 

The only argument I can see for EV's is the savings on fuel. But they just aren't as convenient to live with and you probably lose what you saved on fuel when you come to sell it and get offered a packet of peanuts for it. 

On 7/4/2025 at 4:31 PM, motdaeng said:

 

that’s the best joke i've heard in a while … and it clearly shows you have no idea about electric cars, which makes you look really quite foolish ... 

 

I agree with that. Toyota spent years with their eyes and ears closed and hoped when they opened them again the whole EV thing would have gone away, even to the extent of spending millions on anti-EV propaganda which it seems Trouble and Grumpy has eagerly lapped up. Toyota are in no way competitive in the EV market. Don't forget some remarkable new engine that will kill EVs is "Just around the corner" and has been for a decade or more, and, frankly, doesn't exist at all.

Something surprised me though. I am currently working on some TV commercials for the 2026 Toyota bZ (they've dropped the 4x bit) for the American market. We shot them here using the 2023 model and are replacing the cars with CGI versions of the 2026 model as it was not available to shoot. So I have been spending a lot of time with CG models and tech info of the 2026 version. I have to say it is really nice. It looks clean and sharp and modern - a new front end from 2023, less blockiness and less plastic, upgraded interior, bigger battery, more range, faster charging, and a lot more power (around 380 bhp I think and 4.9 seconds to 100kmh). Also flappy paddles for different levels of regen.

I think it comes out second half of this year in the States. No idea about here.

I still think it will be way overpriced for here, I still wouldn't buy one (I would buy a BYD Sealion - faster, better spec etc), but it seems they might have figured out how to make a decent EV at last. Time will tell if this is a fluke or if it marks a change in attitude. Either way they have a heck of a lot of catching up to do.

10 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I agree with that. Toyota spent years with their eyes and ears closed and hoped when they opened them again the whole EV thing would have gone away, even to the extent of spending millions on anti-EV propaganda which it seems Trouble and Grumpy has eagerly lapped up. Toyota are in no way competitive in the EV market. Don't forget some remarkable new engine that will kill EVs is "Just around the corner" and has been for a decade or more, and, frankly, doesn't exist at all.

Something surprised me though. I am currently working on some TV commercials for the 2026 Toyota bZ (they've dropped the 4x bit) for the American market. We shot them here using the 2023 model and are replacing the cars with CGI versions of the 2026 model as it was not available to shoot. So I have been spending a lot of time with CG models and tech info of the 2026 version. I have to say it is really nice. It looks clean and sharp and modern - a new front end from 2023, less blockiness and less plastic, upgraded interior, bigger battery, more range, faster charging, and a lot more power (around 380 bhp I think and 4.9 seconds to 100kmh). Also flappy paddles for different levels of regen.

I think it comes out second half of this year in the States. No idea about here.

I still think it will be way overpriced for here, I still wouldn't buy one (I would buy a BYD Sealion - faster, better spec etc), but it seems they might have figured out how to make a decent EV at last. Time will tell if this is a fluke or if it marks a change in attitude. Either way they have a heck of a lot of catching up to do.

 

I think it depends on tariffs as it's probably made in a joint venture with BYD and manufactured in China.

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

I wouldn't buy an MG, but I'd always buy a hybrid over EV.

 

Quicker to refuel.

More range.

More charging stations.

 

Plus all the cheaper EV's are Chinese and you never know if they wil go the same way as NETA. Spare parts can take a long time. I don't really like supporting the Chinese companies when they steal technology and treat their employees so badly either.  

 

The only argument I can see for EV's is the savings on fuel. But they just aren't as convenient to live with and you probably lose what you saved on fuel when you come to sell it and get offered a packet of peanuts for it. 

Yes EV's just aren't worth the extra money and hassle especially now that these hybrid's have improved so much.  1,000 baht can get you 1000 km, save a ton of money. 

I am the opposite, I would buy either a full EV or a ICE. Hybrid seems like the worse choice to me. 

13 minutes ago, Furioso said:

Yes EV's just aren't worth the extra money and hassle especially now that these hybrid's have improved so much.  1,000 baht can get you 1000 km, save a ton of money. 

It does seem like with EVs there is a bit of extra hassle compared to a standard car, but I get the impression that's more of an issue of getting used to doing things you haven't done or used before. Like getting the apps for using chargers in EV stations, keeping track of where to find these stations, planning ahead a bit more when making longer trips etc.

Once you've gotten used to this it seems quite straightforward.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Furioso said:

Yes EV's just aren't worth the extra money and hassle especially now that these hybrid's have improved so much.  1,000 baht can get you 1000 km, save a ton of money. 

 

As I have previously stated...

 

Honda and Toyota HEVs, the equivalent cars to my BYD Seal AWD Performance  (0-100km/hr in 3.8 seconds) are far more expensive to buy and run and have much worse performance.

 

My Seal came with 8 years of completely free servicing (parts and labour) and most of the time I charge it from solar for free.

 

 

As for "hassle" how long do you really think it takes me to plug my car in at home?