What a Palaver.......

[Cardano]

So after spending the prior 4 weeks prepping all my documents exactly in accordance with what I had supplied over the last several years the time for my annual extension based on marriage finally arrived last week, here's the sequence of events of the application day and subsequent events thereafter;
1. My bank now does real-time account updates and statements so first thing in the morning logged on to my bank app and transfered 20 baht in to my savings account then requested 3 month statement sent as email attachment, 5 minutes later received statement (showing 20 baht deposit and balance updated), printed out 2 copies.
2. Took bank book and passport to my bank and update the book, (again showing 20baht deposit and balance updated) then asked for the confirmation of funds letter. Bank takes copy of passport bio page, last entry stamp and last permission to stay stamp (3 A4 pages) I was then given 4 different forms (all in Thai) to sign, paid 100 baht and got my letter, all good except for the fact that it took a total of 7 A4 pages to result in 1 A4 letter.
3. Got home, made a coffee and proceeded to scan and print a copy of the letter and copies of bank book bio page and the pages showing the last 4 months of transactions, happy that everything was in order we set off for immigration.
4. Got my queue ticket and within 5 minutes my number was called, great I thought, be back home inside an hour, boy was I wrong!
5. So did the grovelling smiling wai routine and hand over my passport and paperwork, immigration lady starts going through the documents saying ok, ok, then she stops at the copies of the wifes house book and says "need another copy" to which I reply there's 2 copies included, to which she replies "need 3 copies now, new rule". I informed her that I will go home and get another copy.
6. As I am about to get up and rush home she says "just a moment" and pulls my bank statement document, confers with another person and says "no good cannot accept, no stamp". I explain that it has been good enough for every other year and also as you can see it aligns perfectly with the bank book and the balance aligns with the bank letter. To which she responds " you must go bank and get statement with stamp also I want copy of every page of bank book. I said bank book goes back to 2021 why do you need a copy of every page, to which she replies "new rule". At this point I lost the plot but managed to politely tell her how bureaucratically inane and archaic their system is, to which she resonds "it's no different to anywhere else and if you not happy can leave", I then realised these people live in their own little bubble and that it's completely pointless trying to reason with them.
7. So I collect all my documents, drive like a lunatic to get to the bank before it closes, send the wife home to get the house book and bring it back to the bank. After another 7 pages of A4 paper and 100 baht I get a stamped single A4 statement (which is identical to the one sent by email). When they ask for another 100 baht to photocopy the statement and the house book I have to threaten to close all our accounts before they agree to do it gratis.
8. So back at immigration with my new queue ticket and its packed, however the immigration lady sees me and asks for my ticket number and tells me she'll see me next. So after waiting 45 minutes I'm sat infront of her again and she ok's the bank stuff and house book 3rd copy, at which point I breathe a heavy sigh of relief only to be completely slapped down again when she pulls the STM2 and STM9 forms and says "no good, old form, you do new form" so she gives me the new versions and at the same time gives me forms STM10 and STM11 and proceeded to inform me these are new requirement. I responded by asking her how are people supposed to know about updated forms and new forms and new requirements to which she responds "website" I informed her that the official immigration website does not mention any of this as a document requirement, she responded "you go local immigration website". (when I got home I did and guess what! there's absolutely nothing there in respect to extensions based on marriage or retirement).
9. So any way the STM11 form is a consent form to where you allow immigration to carry out any investigation it deems necessary in to your personal affairs and the STM10 form is a legal afidavit to be completed by your Thai spouse stating the reasons why you should be granted an extension of stay.
10. After completing all these additional requirements she finally said ok all good now and took my 1900 baht. So what I thought was going to be a quick visit ended up taking over 3.5 hrs.
11. As expected a few days later the wife gets a call to arrange the immigration police visit and instuction to have a witness in attendance. I thought here we go again repeating the exact same thing we've done year after year after year. So he arrives as arranged and we do the rinse and repeat, he talks to the witness and takes his usual 4 photo's (which are the same as the photo's I submit with my application except the witness is included). He then says to me "now I want photo's just you and me" I though ok this is another new one as he proceeded to take an extra 6 photo's. I thought ok well at least it's over and done now. Wrong again!
12. The following day I get a phone call from the lady at immigration who handled my application and when she explained what she wanted I had to really count to 10 otherwise I would have had a dicky fit and said something I shouldn't. She explained that it is now a new requirement that applicants provide copies of all previous passport pages starting with the page where the original Non-O visa is placed and every consecutive passport page thereafter. I explained that my last Non-O visa was issued in 2013 and that that passport had expired and replaced with a new passport in 2020 with all stamps transferred. I also told her that I wasn't sure if I had already destroyed the passport as instructed by the UK passport office. Her response was " if you have destroyed it you must file a lost or stolen report with the police or if you still have it then you must provide copies of each page from and including the visa page". I responded by saying if I destroyed an expired passport how can I claim it lost or stolen that would be making a fraudulent claim, her response was "you must follow immigration procedure". I ended the call saying I will either find it and copy the pages you want or I will go to the police and explain the situation and tell them what you have asked me to do, I then hung up before she could respond.
13. I was able to locate said passport, duly copied and signed all 41 relevant pages and delivered them to immigration the next day. However I was totally astonished with the manner of the immigration lady, she was apologetic and thankful for all I had done and quietly said "you are right the paperwork required really is too much, maybe next time use an agent". I was so gobsmacked I just walked out.

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions!

[DrJack54]

Which immigration office? 

BTW downloaded bank statements should never be accepted.. 

[quake]

As always.

Immigration is never a problem until it is. 

Little people sitting in big chairs.

T.I.T.

Ps surprised you never had to have a stamp on bank stuff in the past. 

 

 

 

[Caldera]

What an ordeal. Thanks for your report and congrats for keeping your calm facing this insane load of nonsense. 

[mancub]

The only surprise being that she didn't "encourage " you to go the agent route earlier, if it was viable and in her interests.

[howerde]

Sorry for your experience, this can happen at any immigration office if the IO simply decides to make up rules/ignore rules just being in a bad mood is reason enough, best not to question them or answer back as the list of requirements can change, remember they know there is no complaints procedure, This can be worse using a smaller immigration office as they might remember you next time, just smile like Thais do, 

[Cardano]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Which immigration office? 

BTW downloaded bank statements should never be accepted.. 

Due to the details given in my post it wouldn't be prudent to say which office for obvious reasons. As to your opinion regarding bank statements what is your reasoning behind this?

[Cardano]

18 minutes ago, howerde said:

Sorry for your experience, this can happen at any immigration office if the IO simply decides to make up rules/ignore rules just being in a bad mood is reason enough, best not to question them or answer back as the list of requirements can change, remember they know there is no complaints procedure, This can be worse using a smaller immigration office as they might remember you next time, just smile like Thais do, 

Ok first she wasn't making up any rules her boss confirmed to me these were all new requirements from head office and second there is a complaints procedure it is advertised in the immigration office but I'd hate to see the consequences if you tried it.

[Cardano]

42 minutes ago, mancub said:

The only surprise being that she didn't "encourage " you to go the agent route earlier, if it was viable and in her interests.

it might be in their interests but sue as hell isn't in mine.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, Cardano said:

As to your opinion regarding bank statements what is your reasoning behind this?

Bank statements need to be provided by bank. 

Downloaded statements are not acceptable, however not unheard of for some offices to accept (incorrectly) 

As for not naming immigration office then in turn find your post not useful. 

 

[Cardano]

1 hour ago, quake said:

As always.

Immigration is never a problem until it is. 

Little people sitting in big chairs.

T.I.T.

Ps surprised you never had to have a stamp on bank stuff in the past. 

 

 

 

Bank statements issued electronically by the bank always accepted before, and to be honest why are they even needed when your updated pass book is proof definite of your transaction history and balances.

[Cardano]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Bank statements need to be provided by bank. 

Downloaded statements are not acceptable, however not unheard of for some offices to accept (incorrectly) 

As for not naming immigration office then in turn find your post not useful. 

 

Downloaded bank statements are provided by the banks head office and are fully locked and protected against any tampering attempts. The post wasn't put up thinking you would only find it useful if the immigration office was named. I have explained why I am not naming the office and if you cannot understand that reason then you're very naive.

[Negita43]

2 minutes ago, Cardano said:

Bank statements issued electronically by the bank always accepted before, and to be honest why are they even needed when your updated pass book is proof definite of your transaction history and balances.

You are in Thailand please understand the difference between "needed" based on logic and "required" based on "the rules"

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, Cardano said:

Downloaded bank statements are provided by the banks head office and are fully locked and protected against any tampering attempts. The post wasn't put up thinking you would only find it useful if the immigration office was named. I have explained why I am not naming the office and if you cannot understand that reason then you're very naive.

Again without the actual office named your thread is useless. 

 

As for a bank statement... I will type it clearly for you.. 

You need to attend bank and request. 

The statements are valid for 7 days. 

I obtain day or two prior to application. Done on the spot. 

 

BBL notable exception as they take 3-5 days and can be obtained prior to application for extension. 

[Negita43]

Just now, Cardano said:

The post wasn't put up thinking you would only find it useful if the immigration office was named. I have explained why I am not naming the office and if you cannot understand that reason then you're very naive. 

So it was just a rant not an informative post.

[quake]

20 minutes ago, Cardano said:

Bank statements issued electronically by the bank always accepted before, and to be honest why are they even needed when your updated pass book is proof definite of your transaction history and balances.

 

I told you. It's because of.

Little people sitting in big chairs.

 

Ps, we need to know what office it was.

Give us a little cryptic clue. 

 

[howerde]

30 minutes ago, Cardano said:

Ok first she wasn't making up any rules her boss confirmed to me these were all new requirements from head office and second there is a complaints procedure it is advertised in the immigration office but I'd hate to see the consequences if you tried it.

So these new rules, are they in writing? on the hand out every immigration office has, did you get a keep a copy, as for the boss they will always back their staff up, if the boss was correct he would have given you a print out of the requirements.

 

[DrJack54]

Off topic posts removed

[Smokin Joe]

38 minutes ago, Cardano said:

Bank statements issued electronically by the bank always accepted before, and to be honest why are they even needed when your updated pass book is proof definite of your transaction history and balances.

 

At Jomtien I provided bank statements generated by the TTB phone App for my extension done Apr 29th. I make one for each month as the year goes by and my last one year extension I printed off 12 months of statements. 

 

The day of the extension I always go to the bank at opening time for the bank letter and then straight to Jomtien IO. At the bank I asked for an April statement so the final month was current up to the day I applied for the extension.

 

The April statement was exactly the same as the ones I generated in the phone app and forwarded to my e-mail to be downloaded. You couldn't tell the ones I downloaded from the one the bank made for me.

 

The statements I downloaded were accepted without question.

[khunjake]

1 hour ago, howerde said:

Sorry for your experience, this can happen at any immigration office if the IO simply decides to make up rules/ignore rules just being in a bad mood is reason enough, best not to question them or answer back as the list of requirements can change, remember they know there is no complaints procedure, This can be worse using a smaller immigration office as they might remember you next time, just smile like Thais do, 

There is a complaints procedure actually which goes to the division head. Me and my wife were massively mistreated about a simple TM30 a few years back. We were contacted about what happened and now receive very good service at our local office. Said officer is nowhere to be found nowadays.

[quake]

16 minutes ago, Smokin Joe said:

 

At Jomtien I provided bank statements generated by the TTB phone App for my extension done Apr 29th. I make one for each month as the year goes by and my last one year extension I printed off 12 months of statements. 

 

The day of the extension I always go to the bank at opening time for the bank letter and then straight to Jomtien IO. At the bank I asked for an April statement so the final month was current up to the day I applied for the extension.

 

The April statement was exactly the same as the ones I generated in the phone app and forwarded to my e-mail to be downloaded. You couldn't tell the ones I downloaded from the one the bank made for me.

 

The statements I downloaded were accepted without question.

 

Can I ask,  did you do an extension based on marriage ?.

And was the last statement for April stamped and signed by the bank.

Thanks quake.

[Smokin Joe]

6 minutes ago, quake said:

 

Can I ask,  did you do an extension based on marriage ?.

And was the last statement for April stamped and signed by the bank.

Thanks quake.

 

It was for retirement and they did not stamp and sign the statement. Nothing to distinguish the statement they provided and the ones I downloaded.

 

Edit: Of course YMMV. When dealing with the IO's my experience may not be the same as others.

[quake]

10 minutes ago, Smokin Joe said:

 

It was for retirement and they did not stamp and sign the statement. Nothing to distinguish the statement they provided and the ones I downloaded.

 

Ok thank you.

I'm 4 years out of date with jomtien,  on extensions  based on retirement

but, before,  it was only necessary to submit a bank letter for an extension based on retirement 800.000 in the bank, I assume that was you method. if it was on monthly income, I am surprised they excepted it.

It's all a  little bit different to the op,  that was doing the extension based on marriage.

 

[DrJack54]

Off topic post removed. 

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, khunjake said:

There is a complaints procedure actually which goes to the division head. Me and my wife were massively mistreated about a simple TM30 a few years back. We were contacted about what happened and now receive very good service at our local office. Said officer is nowhere to be found nowadays.

 

Your experience shows that sometimes, perhaps not always, standing one's ground earns oneself respect from the government agency concerned. Thank you for sharing it.

[Caldera]

3 hours ago, Cardano said:

Downloaded bank statements are provided by the banks head office and are fully locked and protected against any tampering attempts.

 

At least at face value, that's true for the PDF file that you receive from the bank. But you don't submit that file to immigration, merely a printout that has no security features whatsoever. Most immigration offices don't accept self-printed statements, so yours was an exception before they fell in line.

 

The reason why they ask for a statement although you ALSO need to show your passbook has been discussed here many times. It's because transactions listed in a passbook can get combined if it isn't updated often enough. That can make it impossible to spot if the account balance dipped below the required amount.

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, Caldera said:

Most immigration offices don't accept self-printed statements, so yours was an exception before they fell in line

Exactly 

2 minutes ago, Caldera said:

It's because transactions listed in a passbook can get combined if it isn't updated often enough. That can make it impossible to spot if the account balance dipped below the required amount.

Not so much for extensions marriage however for retirement not only consolidated transactions but also any month that had zero activity. 

[it is what it is]

6 hours ago, quake said:

As always.

Immigration is never a problem until it is. 

Little people sitting in big chairs.

T.I.T.

Ps surprised you never had to have a stamp on bank stuff in the past. 

 

 

 

 

agree, thankfully, i've never had a problem with immigration, in fact always found them reasonably helpful and professional, despite having to put up with some idiot foreigners - and their thai wives/partners.

 

despite digitalisation, and claims to be a digital hub, thailand still loves a paper copy with plenty of stamps, you're lucky, and pretty unique if you've avoided stamps in the past

[Jack1988]

so let me better understand. All this pain for be able to supporting thai women? 🙄☹️

[Maestro]

7 hours ago, Cardano said:

However I was totally astonished with the manner of the immigration lady, she was apologetic and thankful for all I had done and quietly said "you are right the paperwork required really is too much, maybe next time use an agent"...

 

The above says it all. The good lady hopes that next time around you will help her fill her monthly quota.