45 minutes ago, kwilco said:

do you not understand the premise?? - "An Appraisal of Westerners in Thailand" - if you take it personally, it's down to you.

 

Check the replies to this thread my man.  I took nothing personally. Why are you making things up. 

 

Strange. 

It's the "Expat Paradox" and it seems to have worked as such and hit a few nerves. I guess it's  not surprising —despite the fact it's meant to show a paradox, when people feel personally attacked by a general observation, it often means it struck a little too close to home.

 

This wasn’t about individuals, but behaviours that deserve scrutiny. If pointing out hypocrisy, entitlement, or lack of integration feels threatening, maybe it’s not the post that’s the problem.

Criticism isn’t hatred. It’s just a mirror a paradox .... what you see in it is up to you.

Can't paint a whole population with one brush.

 

I lived/worked in Thailand for 11 years, I know many expats that don't fit into the stereotypes posted.

A true is also many expats dont have enough founds for buying tickets going back to their country of origin.

They are stucked in Thailand but want admit that.

 

Nobody likes Westerners until they need help. Next time you find yourself facing a crisis, call on Communist China.  I'm sure they will offer help.........for a PRICE!!!

9 hours ago, kwilco said:

It seems to me that expats in Thailand are pretty bad at looking at themselves....

 

Western expats often arrive in Thailand with a suitcase full of grievances about their home countries. “It’s gone downhill,” they say. “Too woke, too expensive, full of immigrants.”
So they leave — only to recreate the very ignorance, entitlement, and intolerance they supposedly escaped.
They sit in bars criticising Thailand while romanticising the country they couldn’t wait to abandon. Some even voted for Brexit, then act bewildered when their visas expire and nobody rolls out a red carpet.
But their contradictions go deeper than politics.

 

Healthcare Ignorance & Gullibility
Expats routinely rave about “cheap and excellent” Thai healthcare — without the slightest understanding of what actually happened in their treatment. If they feel better, it must have worked. Never mind the overprescription, unnecessary procedures, or the profit-driven nature of many private clinics. Most are utterly unqualified to assess the care they receive, but declare themselves experts regardless.

 

Roads, Rules & Arrogance
They sneer at Thai drivers, mock the roads, and complain about “chaos.” Meanwhile, they ride motorcycles without licences, flout traffic laws they’ve never bothered to learn, and assume they’re superior simply because they’ve held a UK or EU driver’s licence since 1989. Many can’t even parallel park a motorbike, let alone navigate Thai roads responsibly.

 

The Comfort Zone of Prostitution & Beer
For too many, life in Thailand revolves around prostitution, cheap beer, and whining about prices — usually from the plastic chairs of a roadside bar. They're proud consumers of an exploitative industry they wouldn’t dare talk about back home, yet somehow feel morally untouchable. “I can’t be a misogynist — I married one,” they say, confusing companionship with ownership.

 

Language & Cultural Illiteracy
Years (even decades) in the country — yet most can’t read a Thai menu, write their own address, or hold a basic conversation without pointing. They rely on their wives, waitresses, or dodgy Facebook groups for filtered info, yet hold forth as if they understand Thai politics, culture, and society.
They stereotype relentlessly: “Thais are like this, Thais are like that.” But if someone made sweeping comments about their home country based on chats with a single barmaid or taxi driver, they’d throw a tantrum.

 

Democracy? They Don’t Get It
Ask them about Thai democracy, and you’ll hear either conspiracy theories or colonial condescension. Few grasp the basics — like the military’s role under the Thai constitution — yet they’ll complain about Thai elections while cheerfully forgetting they supported Brexit or Trump.

 

Identity Denial & Economic Delusion
They recoil at being called immigrants — because that’s what “those other people” are. No, they're different. They’re investors, retirees, or digital nomads — never immigrants.
They overestimate their value to the Thai economy and vastly underestimate what it costs Thailand to keep them here — from overstretched hospitals to under-policed roads.

 

Diet, Dress & Disgrace
They don’t actually like Thai food — too spicy, too weird — and spend a fortune on imported cheese and sausages. They dress like they’ve been expelled from a campsite: singlets, cargo shorts, sunburned skin, and flip-flops in restaurants.
They sweat like broken fridges but shower no more than they would in Manchester. Basic hygiene? Optional. Self-awareness? Nonexistent.

 

Conclusion: The Ultimate Irony
Expats in Thailand fled change, diversity, and accountability in their own countries — and then became the very stereotype they feared. They are loud, uninformed, entitled, and often deeply disrespectful to the country they now call home.
They left their countries calling them broken.
They sit in Thailand complaining about the locals.
And they remain oblivious to the fact that they are the problem.
 

 

Roads, Rules & Arrogance

 

The roads are chaotic in Thailand. There is no denying this aspect of Thailand. Thailand has the highest rate of traffic deaths in Southeast Asia at 25.4/100,000. The EU has a rate of 4.6/100,000, while the USA has a rate of 12.2/100,000. Have you ever tried to cross the street in Thailand? 

 

Language & Cultural Illiteracy

 

I can't read Thai, and don't have any issues having my GF do it for me.  

 

Democracy? They Don’t Get It

 

Why do you feel that a military government is democary, yet people voting for Trump or Brexit is not? 

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

What's wrong with sex and beer?

Sex is for youngsters, not if you are 80 years old, and some people don't drink beer.

1 hour ago, TedG said:

 

 

Roads, Rules & Arrogance

 

The roads are chaotic in Thailand. There is no denying this aspect of Thailand. Thailand has the highest rate of traffic deaths in Southeast Asia at 25.4/100,000. The EU has a rate of 4.6/100,000, while the USA has a rate of 12.2/100,000. Have you ever tried to cross the street in Thailand? 

 

Language & Cultural Illiteracy

 

I can't read Thai, and don't have any issues having my GF do it for me.  

 

Democracy? They Don’t Get It

 

Why do you feel that a military government is democary, yet people voting for Trump or Brexit is not? 

don't think you can read - so all 3 of those points fall to you

BUT

there is a point I overlooked

Many expats show little interest in Thai language, culture, or politics — yet speak with total authority on all three. Often with limited education themselves, they still carry a sense of superiority over Thais who are, in many cases, far more educated and informed than they are.

Criticism isn’t an attack — it’s a mirror.

2 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Nobody likes Westerners until they need help. Next time you find yourself facing a crisis, call on Communist China.  I'm sure they will offer help.........for a PRICE!!!

 

Non sequitur much?

11 hours ago, kwilco said:

oh dear, a classic expat defence mechanism: ignore the argument, invent a (wildly inaccurate and spruious - based on yourself?) backstory, and diagnose someone else's mental state — all before breakfast.

If a post pointing out hypocrisy gets you this rattled, maybe it wasn’t shade. Maybe it was a mirror. THis is the whole point of a "paradox"!
And if the best you can do is label every criticism as “trolling,” it says a lot about the limits of your worldview — and possibly your whisky tolerance.

I’m not here to tear anyone down. I’m here to call out double standards that deserve scrutiny.
If that makes you uncomfortable… maybe ask yourself why.

No argument in your op, just hate for other expats.

Get help if you're this unhappy.

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

don't think you can read - so all 3 of those points fall to you

BUT

there is a point I overlooked

Many expats show little interest in Thai language, culture, or politics — yet speak with total authority on all three. Often with limited education themselves, they still carry a sense of superiority over Thais who are, in many cases, far more educated and informed than they are.

Criticism isn’t an attack — it’s a mirror.

Most Thais I know left school age 12.

Including my wife, before I sent her to high school and then university.

Doubt you finished high school, as you need AI to write.

 

But you're right, I'm superior to almost everyone in the world.

Someone has to be at the top, and that's me ...... or was me before I got really old.

17 hours ago, kwilco said:

They stereotype relentlessly

 

Same as you do right now.

Not all expats are the same.

I learned a new word - Paradox.

 

I admit on several occasions I have sat in restaurants in my flip flops. 

 

7 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I learned a new word - Paradox.

I admit on several occasions I have sat in restaurants in my flip flops. 

Thai culture would suggest no footwear in the restaurant.

On 7/16/2025 at 2:47 AM, kwilco said:

Healthcare Ignorance & Gullibility
Expats routinely rave about “cheap and excellent” Thai healthcare — without the slightest understanding of what actually happened in their treatment. If they feel better, it must have worked. Never mind the overprescription, unnecessary procedures, or the profit-driven nature of many private clinics. Most are utterly unqualified to assess the care they receive, but declare themselves experts regardless.

 

I don't fully trust doctors / the medical system anywhere in the world.

 

I always do my own research and plenty of good info online in this day and age. No need to blindly trust your doctor on everything. 

 

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Thai culture would suggest no footwear in the restaurant.

 

They're pragmatic.

They don't mind your stinky feet as long as you bring in money in their establishment.

 

 

9 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

They're pragmatic.

They don't mind your stinky feet as long as you bring in money in their establishment.

Sure, but the OP wants to diss us for wearing the wrong footwear in  restaurants, when the reality is culturally you shouldn't wear any.

 

Sounds like the OP doesn't really understand Thailand.

These expats in Thailand, frankly, they're a total disgrace, a complete disaster, believe me! They leave their home countries, right? They're always whining, "Oh, it's gone woke, too expensive, too many people." Sad! But then they go to Thailand, and what do they do? They recreate the exact problems they ran from! It's incredible, nobody's ever seen anything like it.
They sit in these little bars, complaining, always complaining, about Thailand, a beautiful country, by the way, while still dreaming about the place they couldn't wait to abandon. Some of them, they even voted for Brexit, good for them, but then they act shocked when their visas expire and nobody, nobody, rolls out the red carpet. They thought they were so smart!
They talk about "cheap healthcare," but they have no idea what's really happening. It's a sham! They mock the roads, the drivers, but they're the ones on motorcycles, no license, totally unsafe, causing big problems. And many of them, they're just there for the cheap beer and the not-so-good industries. It's not something you'd talk about back home, believe me. They can't even speak the language, not a word, can't read a menu, but they're suddenly experts on Thai politics. It's a joke!
They don't want to be called immigrants, oh no, they're "investors" or "digital nomads." It's ridiculous! They think they're doing Thailand a big favor, but they're costing the country a fortune with their bad habits and always needing things. They don't even like Thai food, it's too spicy, too weird for them. And the way they dress? Terrible! Like they just rolled out of a very bad tent. They sweat a lot, a tremendous amount of sweat, but they don't even bother with basic hygiene. It's really, really bad.
The truth is, they're loud, they're uninformed, they're entitled, and they are, plain and simple, the problem. They left their countries calling them broken, and now they sit in Thailand, a beautiful place, complaining about the locals, totally, completely oblivious that they are the ones who are broken. It's a very sad situation, a very sad situation indeed.
 

6 minutes ago, Celsius said:

....................They sweat a lot, a tremendous amount of sweat,...........

 

I've seen people complain about foreign behavior often on AN, but this takes the cake!
 

12 minutes ago, Celsius said:

These expats in Thailand, frankly, they're a total disgrace, a complete disaster, believe me! They leave their home countries, right? They're always whining, "Oh, it's gone woke, too expensive, too many people." Sad! But then they go to Thailand, and what do they do? They recreate the exact problems they ran from! It's incredible, nobody's ever seen anything like it.
They sit in these little bars, complaining, always complaining, about Thailand, a beautiful country, by the way, while still dreaming about the place they couldn't wait to abandon. Some of them, they even voted for Brexit, good for them, but then they act shocked when their visas expire and nobody, nobody, rolls out the red carpet. They thought they were so smart!
They talk about "cheap healthcare," but they have no idea what's really happening. It's a sham! They mock the roads, the drivers, but they're the ones on motorcycles, no license, totally unsafe, causing big problems. And many of them, they're just there for the cheap beer and the not-so-good industries. It's not something you'd talk about back home, believe me. They can't even speak the language, not a word, can't read a menu, but they're suddenly experts on Thai politics. It's a joke!
They don't want to be called immigrants, oh no, they're "investors" or "digital nomads." It's ridiculous! They think they're doing Thailand a big favor, but they're costing the country a fortune with their bad habits and always needing things. They don't even like Thai food, it's too spicy, too weird for them. And the way they dress? Terrible! Like they just rolled out of a very bad tent. They sweat a lot, a tremendous amount of sweat, but they don't even bother with basic hygiene. It's really, really bad.
The truth is, they're loud, they're uninformed, they're entitled, and they are, plain and simple, the problem. They left their countries calling them broken, and now they sit in Thailand, a beautiful place, complaining about the locals, totally, completely oblivious that they are the ones who are broken. It's a very sad situation, a very sad situation indeed.
 

You OK hun? 😅😅

12 hours ago, kwilco said:

oh dear, a classic expat defence mechanism: ignore the argument, invent a (wildly inaccurate and spruious - based on yourself?) backstory, and diagnose someone else's mental state — all before breakfast.

If a post pointing out hypocrisy gets you this rattled, maybe it wasn’t shade. Maybe it was a mirror. THis is the whole point of a "paradox"!
And if the best you can do is label every criticism as “trolling,” it says a lot about the limits of your worldview — and possibly your whisky tolerance.

I’m not here to tear anyone down. I’m here to call out double standards that deserve scrutiny.
If that makes you uncomfortable… maybe ask yourself why.

Why do you feel the need to call out anyone?  Does this make you feel superior? 

18 hours ago, kwilco said:

Must’ve hit close to home.

Nope, it is to the point.

 

With one exception, my plan was to learn Thai, but try to find a language school for expats outside of Bangkok, Chiang Mai or, possibly, Phuket.

19 hours ago, kwilco said:

It seems to me that expats in Thailand are pretty bad at looking at themselves....

 

Western expats often arrive in Thailand with a suitcase full of grievances about their home countries. “It’s gone downhill,” they say. “Too woke, too expensive, full of immigrants.”
So they leave — only to recreate the very ignorance, entitlement, and intolerance they supposedly escaped.
They sit in bars criticising Thailand while romanticising the country they couldn’t wait to abandon. Some even voted for Brexit, then act bewildered when their visas expire and nobody rolls out a red carpet.
But their contradictions go deeper than politics.

 

Healthcare Ignorance & Gullibility
Expats routinely rave about “cheap and excellent” Thai healthcare — without the slightest understanding of what actually happened in their treatment. If they feel better, it must have worked. Never mind the overprescription, unnecessary procedures, or the profit-driven nature of many private clinics. Most are utterly unqualified to assess the care they receive, but declare themselves experts regardless.

 

Roads, Rules & Arrogance
They sneer at Thai drivers, mock the roads, and complain about “chaos.” Meanwhile, they ride motorcycles without licences, flout traffic laws they’ve never bothered to learn, and assume they’re superior simply because they’ve held a UK or EU driver’s licence since 1989. Many can’t even parallel park a motorbike, let alone navigate Thai roads responsibly.

 

The Comfort Zone of Prostitution & Beer
For too many, life in Thailand revolves around prostitution, cheap beer, and whining about prices — usually from the plastic chairs of a roadside bar. They're proud consumers of an exploitative industry they wouldn’t dare talk about back home, yet somehow feel morally untouchable. “I can’t be a misogynist — I married one,” they say, confusing companionship with ownership.

 

Language & Cultural Illiteracy
Years (even decades) in the country — yet most can’t read a Thai menu, write their own address, or hold a basic conversation without pointing. They rely on their wives, waitresses, or dodgy Facebook groups for filtered info, yet hold forth as if they understand Thai politics, culture, and society.
They stereotype relentlessly: “Thais are like this, Thais are like that.” But if someone made sweeping comments about their home country based on chats with a single barmaid or taxi driver, they’d throw a tantrum.

 

Democracy? They Don’t Get It
Ask them about Thai democracy, and you’ll hear either conspiracy theories or colonial condescension. Few grasp the basics — like the military’s role under the Thai constitution — yet they’ll complain about Thai elections while cheerfully forgetting they supported Brexit or Trump.

 

Identity Denial & Economic Delusion
They recoil at being called immigrants — because that’s what “those other people” are. No, they're different. They’re investors, retirees, or digital nomads — never immigrants.
They overestimate their value to the Thai economy and vastly underestimate what it costs Thailand to keep them here — from overstretched hospitals to under-policed roads.

 

Diet, Dress & Disgrace
They don’t actually like Thai food — too spicy, too weird — and spend a fortune on imported cheese and sausages. They dress like they’ve been expelled from a campsite: singlets, cargo shorts, sunburned skin, and flip-flops in restaurants.
They sweat like broken fridges but shower no more than they would in Manchester. Basic hygiene? Optional. Self-awareness? Nonexistent.

 

Conclusion: The Ultimate Irony
Expats in Thailand fled change, diversity, and accountability in their own countries — and then became the very stereotype they feared. They are loud, uninformed, entitled, and often deeply disrespectful to the country they now call home.
They left their countries calling them broken.
They sit in Thailand complaining about the locals.
And they remain oblivious to the fact that they are the problem.
 

 

This is such an overwhelmingly negative perspective and post.

 

I'm certain all of this lurks within all of us to SOME extent. You've tarred all of us with an extremely broad brush which makes the observation weak and over generalized.

 

Moreover, you fail to take into account how much of the issues / complaints are objectively valid

 

I would definitely agree though with the last paragraph. British are probably the most unadjusted among us although the Americans would tie them for sloppiness.

 

I think it's hilarious how attached farang are to western food when Thai food is one of top five in the world. Given what British eat it's no wonder they all have bellies that need a babysitter and constantly are asking about the latest heart attack Pattaya Sunday roast.

17 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I can read and write Thai.

Adolf Eichmann could read and write Hebrew fluently.

While your rather long-winded post might apply to some expats here in Thailand, I think it depends a lot on location. Pattaya ppears to me to have the lowest quality of expat in the entire country. Next comes Phuket, and then Samui. I think there are a lot of regional areas where the quality of expat is much higher and they're not necessarily attracted to a certain scene. I've met some pretty high caliber guys here so general rules of thumb might apply to some, but I don't think it applies to the majority. 

Somebody woke up with a bad hangover.

21 hours ago, kwilco said:

but shower no more than they would in Manchester

How do YOU know how often folk shower in Manchester (Greater or the City of?)

They get natural ones almost every day at certain times of the year.

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Most Thais I know left school age 12.

The last  time I met a Thai who had left school age 12, was 1995.

Times have changed.

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

How do YOU know how often folk shower in Manchester (Greater or the City of?)

They get natural ones almost every day at certain times of the year.

The OP probably comes from some rain sodden backwater anyway, he's no room to talk.

22 hours ago, kwilco said:

It seems to me that expats in Thailand are pretty bad at looking at themselves....

 

Western expats often arrive in Thailand with a suitcase full of grievances about their home countries. “It’s gone downhill,” they say. “Too woke, too expensive, full of immigrants.”
So they leave — only to recreate the very ignorance, entitlement, and intolerance they supposedly escaped.
They sit in bars criticising Thailand while romanticising the country they couldn’t wait to abandon. Some even voted for Brexit, then act bewildered when their visas expire and nobody rolls out a red carpet.
But their contradictions go deeper than politics.

 

Healthcare Ignorance & Gullibility
Expats routinely rave about “cheap and excellent” Thai healthcare — without the slightest understanding of what actually happened in their treatment. If they feel better, it must have worked. Never mind the overprescription, unnecessary procedures, or the profit-driven nature of many private clinics. Most are utterly unqualified to assess the care they receive, but declare themselves experts regardless.

 

Roads, Rules & Arrogance
They sneer at Thai drivers, mock the roads, and complain about “chaos.” Meanwhile, they ride motorcycles without licences, flout traffic laws they’ve never bothered to learn, and assume they’re superior simply because they’ve held a UK or EU driver’s licence since 1989. Many can’t even parallel park a motorbike, let alone navigate Thai roads responsibly.

 

The Comfort Zone of Prostitution & Beer
For too many, life in Thailand revolves around prostitution, cheap beer, and whining about prices — usually from the plastic chairs of a roadside bar. They're proud consumers of an exploitative industry they wouldn’t dare talk about back home, yet somehow feel morally untouchable. “I can’t be a misogynist — I married one,” they say, confusing companionship with ownership.

 

Language & Cultural Illiteracy
Years (even decades) in the country — yet most can’t read a Thai menu, write their own address, or hold a basic conversation without pointing. They rely on their wives, waitresses, or dodgy Facebook groups for filtered info, yet hold forth as if they understand Thai politics, culture, and society.
They stereotype relentlessly: “Thais are like this, Thais are like that.” But if someone made sweeping comments about their home country based on chats with a single barmaid or taxi driver, they’d throw a tantrum.

 

Democracy? They Don’t Get It
Ask them about Thai democracy, and you’ll hear either conspiracy theories or colonial condescension. Few grasp the basics — like the military’s role under the Thai constitution — yet they’ll complain about Thai elections while cheerfully forgetting they supported Brexit or Trump.

 

Identity Denial & Economic Delusion
They recoil at being called immigrants — because that’s what “those other people” are. No, they're different. They’re investors, retirees, or digital nomads — never immigrants.
They overestimate their value to the Thai economy and vastly underestimate what it costs Thailand to keep them here — from overstretched hospitals to under-policed roads.

 

Diet, Dress & Disgrace
They don’t actually like Thai food — too spicy, too weird — and spend a fortune on imported cheese and sausages. They dress like they’ve been expelled from a campsite: singlets, cargo shorts, sunburned skin, and flip-flops in restaurants.
They sweat like broken fridges but shower no more than they would in Manchester. Basic hygiene? Optional. Self-awareness? Nonexistent.

 

Conclusion: The Ultimate Irony
Expats in Thailand fled change, diversity, and accountability in their own countries — and then became the very stereotype they feared. They are loud, uninformed, entitled, and often deeply disrespectful to the country they now call home.
They left their countries calling them broken.
They sit in Thailand complaining about the locals.
And they remain oblivious to the fact that they are the problem.
 

A well balanced appraisal, must have a chip on both shoulders!