1 hour ago, candide said:

Yet you ignore that the reason for this extension is that Eastern European countries did not want to be under the yoke of Russia again. For them, it was absolutely necessary.

 

You also ignore that NATO was absolutely no threat to Russia, as attested by the decrease of military budgets in Europe,  as well as a decrease of U.S. military presence after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Quote: "Yet you ignore that the reason for this extension is that Eastern European countries did not want to be under the yoke of Russia again. For them, it was absolutely necessary.

 

= How about just staying military "neutral"? Conducting business with the West as well as with the Russians?

 

Quote: "You also ignore that NATO was absolutely no threat to Russia, as attested by the decrease of military budgets in Europe,  as well as a decrease of U.S. military presence after the collapse of the Soviet Union. 

 

= If you sit in a bar, 5 guys getting closer and closer to you without inviting them to get closer to you, sooner or later you will feel "encircled". Regardless if they wear a heavy perfume or a big stick. You will feel "encircled".

1 hour ago, swissie said:

The uncalled for, endless eastward expansion of NATO is the root cause. Russia has no geographical "protection" in the west (mountain ranges, swamps etc). Stalin made the East Europen Countries his "buffer zone".

 

Putin wants to re-establish a "buffer zone". We can only hope that the Ukraine will be considered as enough "buffer zone" by Putin.

The absolutely uncalled for, absolutely unnecessary eastward expansion of NATO may well be the root cause for the "Ukrainian War". Over the years, Putin has warned over and over again, that Russia will be forced to couteract this provocation eventually.

 

What a load of rubbish. Kremlin propaganda.

 

Russia already has a lot of their borders next to NATO countries. They already have NATO bases at their footsteps. Ukraine would have been no different. Norway, Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, and Sweden across the Baltic sea.

 

The reason Russia invaded Ukraine has nothing to do with NATO. Russia couldn't stand losing Ukraine, as their plans all along has been to re-establish the old Soviet Union. They needed full control over Ukraine in the long run, and couldn't stand watching Ukraine joining the west.

 

Ukraine CHOSE to join the West, and to get away from Russia's very damaging and controlling society. Their choice, just like Baltikum did.

1 hour ago, candide said:

Yet you ignore that the reason for this extension is that Eastern European countries did not want to be under the yoke of Russia again. For them, it was absolutely necessary.

 

You also ignore that NATO was absolutely no threat to Russia, as attested by the decrease of military budgets in Europe,  as well as a decrease of U.S. military presence after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

 

This. All true and accurate.

1 hour ago, swissie said:

The uncalled for, endless eastward expansion of NATO is the root cause. Russia has no geographical "protection" in the west (mountain ranges, swamps etc). Stalin made the East Europen Countries his "buffer zone".

 

Putin wants to re-establish a "buffer zone". We can only hope that the Ukraine will be considered as enough "buffer zone" by Putin.

The absolutely uncalled for, absolutely unnecessary eastward expansion of NATO may well be the root cause for the "Ukrainian War". Over the years, Putin has warned over and over again, that Russia will be forced to couteract this provocation eventually.

 

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

Swissie gets it.

 

That old chestnut again.

 

Russia shares a border with the following NATO countries: Norway, Finland, Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. 

 

Norway was a founder member of NATO in 1949, so it's a bit late for Russia to complain about her membership.

 

Finland was neutral until 2023 and would never have joined NATO if Russia had not invaded Ukraine.

 

Lithuania and Poland share a border with Russia because Russia refuses to hand back land (Kaliningrad) which rightfully belongs to either Lithuania or Poland (Precisely who should own it is another discussion. One thing's for sure, it ain't Russia)

 

Which leaves Estonia and Latvia. Ignoring the fact that there are historical reasons for these two countries to be very wary of Russia and seek the protection of NATO membership, the extent of NATO's push to the East amounts to a shared border of +/-600km and we are to believe that presents an intolerable threat to Russia's security!

1 minute ago, RayC said:

Lithuania and Poland share a border with Russia because Russia refuses to hand back land (Kaliningrad) which rightfully belongs to either Lithuania or Poland

 

Errrr, no. Kaliningrad, formerly Koenigsberg, rightfully belonged to Germany,.

3 minutes ago, swissie said:

Quote: "Yet you ignore that the reason for this extension is that Eastern European countries did not want to be under the yoke of Russia again. For them, it was absolutely necessary.

 

= How about just staying military "neutral"? Conducting business with the West as well as with the Russians?

 

Quote: "You also ignore that NATO was absolutely no threat to Russia, as attested by the decrease of military budgets in Europe,  as well as a decrease of U.S. military presence after the collapse of the Soviet Union. 

 

= If you sit in a bar, 5 guys getting closer and closer to you without inviting them to get closer to you, sooner or later you will feel "encircled". Regardless if they wear a heavy perfume or a big stick. You will feel "encircled".

1. Obviously, staying military neutral meant staying without protection against Russia. 

2. Encircled by NATO, really?

On 8/10/2025 at 8:14 PM, swissie said:

Trump/Putin meeting coming up: What will happen if Selensky will not make territorial concessions? What do you think?

 

I think: This will make Donald very angry, him calling Selensky a "peace saboteur". Not sending any urgently needed arms to the Ukraine anymore.

With the result, that Selensky will eventually lose the entire Ukraine to Russia. I would certainly not want to be in Selensky's shoes. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Poor devil.

 

I guess Putin has something complete different in his mind ones in Alaska

 

1 minute ago, RayC said:

Russia shares a border with the following NATO countries: Norway, Finland, Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania

 

Yes. Like I mentioned above. 

But according to Russian propaganda, swallowed by some here I see, NATOs "expansion" is the reason Ukraine was invaded. No it wasn't. Like you point out, NATO has never been a threat to Russia. NATO is a defense alliance, not a war alliance.

 

NATO would never expand if these countries weren't threatened, or felt they were under threat by Russia.

Russia did this to themselves.

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

Errrr, no. Kaliningrad, formerly Koenigsberg, rightfully belonged to Germany,.

 

And before Germany became a nation state, Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad) was part of Prussia; all of which is totally irrelevant to my point that this idea that Russia was forced into an invasion of Ukraine by NATO's relentless push to the East is complete nonsense.

9 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 

That old chestnut again.

 

Russia shares a border with the following NATO countries: Norway, Finland, Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. 

 

Norway was a founder member of NATO in 1949, so it's a bit late for Russia to complain about her membership.

 

Finland was neutral until 2023 and would never have joined NATO if Russia had not invaded Ukraine.

 

Lithuania and Poland share a border with Russia because Russia refuses to hand back land (Kaliningrad) which rightfully belongs to either Lithuania or Poland (Precisely who should own it is another discussion. One thing's for sure, it ain't Russia)

 

Which leaves Estonia and Latvia. Ignoring the fact that there are historical reasons for these two countries to be very wary of Russia and seek the protection of NATO membership, the extent of NATO's push to the East amounts to a shared border of +/-600km and we are to believe that presents an intolerable threat to Russia's security!

Basically all members of NATO. Ganging up with no rhime or reason. Having decided that Russia will be the eternal enemy of Europe.

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly.

Biden, unlike Putin's poodle Trump, never halted aid without being forced to by the fascist maga Trump forces.

HOWEVER, to be fair, his performance was less than ideal.

He was constantly putting restrictions on specific arms for Ukraine and what they would be allowed to do with them.

This was mostly about being spooked by Putin's nuclear threats games and also about a fear of the global instability that would result if Russia actually lost (such as breakup of Russia, new states having nukes, etc.).

Biden never abandoned Ukraine but the aid was never enough for them to have a chance of winning, only holding on.

That proved a mistake as that set the table for the totally evil pro Putin behavior of the Trump regime.

False. Biden stopped/paused Trump’s arms shipments to Ukraine and cancelled Trump’s sanctions almost immediately after he took office.

Putin issues instructions, Trump does it, Putin donates BitCoins just like the last 30 years. As a bonus, Trump provides more of the bathroom files.

10 minutes ago, mogandave said:

False. Biden stopped/paused Trump’s arms shipments to Ukraine and cancelled Trump’s sanctions almost immediately after he took office.

 

You are back to pre Russia's invasion of Ukraine, I see.

Come on, Sir. Everything changed in February 2022, when Russia invaded Ukraine. Before then, Europe, USA and NATO still believed in talks and diplomacy to avoid a conflict. Biden did what was necessary at that point.

 

We were wrong. Russia can never be trusted again, and we have been arming up since.

On 8/10/2025 at 10:16 PM, connda said:

Nothing has changed regarding Russian terms over the last year. Trump and the US administration just pretend they never have heard about the terms and then have a conniption fit when the Russian delegation repeats the terms that were announced over a year ago.  It's all theater.  

Yes, maybe. Thing is, typically speaking, these high-level meetings between heads of state are usually little more than a photo op because their respective teams have already pre-agreed the outcome. But who knows what will happen this time.. I wouldn't bet either way. Having said that, I think Putin has been playing Trump from the get-go and has no plans of ending or pausing his war in Ukraine.

The convicted felon practicing.

 

On 8/10/2025 at 6:33 PM, Tug said:

If Harris was there Russia would be on its back possibly suing for peace,for 100% sure Ukraine would be in a much much stronger position our economy would be stronger the world safer out education system would be better the laws would be followed as well as the constitution and our democracy would be in less danger.

If harris were president there would be nuclear holocaust by now

27 minutes ago, swissie said:

Basically all members of NATO. Ganging up with no rhime or reason. Having decided that Russia will be the eternal enemy of Europe.

 

Absolute tosh. Basically you are saying that NATO has picked a fight with Russia just to keep itself occupied. You do realise how ridiculous that sounds, don't you?

 

No doubt the US and the EU member states are wary of Russia with good reason, but neither has anything to gain by entering into a conflict.

 

The days when US foreign policy was based on eradicating Communism have long since past and it has no desire to fight another war in Europe.

 

The EU and its' member states are much more powerful and wealthy economically than Russia so, again, they have absolutely nothing to gain from a conflict.

52 minutes ago, shdmn said:

The convicted felon practicing.

 

Always so classy the left

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Always so classy the left

So accurate too, Trump is a traitor.

1 hour ago, swissie said:

Quote: "Yet you ignore that the reason for this extension is that Eastern European countries did not want to be under the yoke of Russia again. For them, it was absolutely necessary.

 

= How about just staying military "neutral"? Conducting business with the West as well as with the Russians?

 

Quote: "You also ignore that NATO was absolutely no threat to Russia, as attested by the decrease of military budgets in Europe,  as well as a decrease of U.S. military presence after the collapse of the Soviet Union. 

 

= If you sit in a bar, 5 guys getting closer and closer to you without inviting them to get closer to you, sooner or later you will feel "encircled". Regardless if they wear a heavy perfume or a big stick. You will feel "encircled".

The five guys are all to one side of you, they're not encircling you, and besides you know these 5 guys well. You used to bully some of them, tell them what to do.

It hurts that they told you where to go but that's life. Stop living in the past.

46 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Absolute tosh. Basically you are saying that NATO has picked a fight with Russia just to keep itself occupied. You do realise how ridiculous that sounds, don't you?

 

No doubt the US and the EU member states are wary of Russia with good reason, but neither has anything to gain by entering into a conflict.

 

The days when US foreign policy was based on eradicating Communism have long since past and it has no desire to fight another war in Europe.

 

The EU and its' member states are much more powerful and wealthy economically than Russia so, again, they have absolutely nothing to gain from a conflict.

My post has not reached you intellectually. Sad to say.

 

But I wold like to quote you "The EU and its' member states are much more powerful and wealthy economically than Russia so, again, they have absolutely nothing to gain from a conflict.

 

Answer : The EU has no military equippement nor moral support that could avoid the military defeat of the Ukraine.

Quote: "Yet you ignore that the reason for this extension is that Eastern European countries did not want to be under the yoke of Russia again. For them, it was absolutely necessary.

= How about just staying military "neutral"? Conducting business with the West as well as with the Russians?

Quote: "You also ignore that NATO was absolutely no threat to Russia, as attested by the decrease of military budgets in Europe,  as well as a decrease of U.S. military presence after the collapse of the Soviet Union. 

= If you sit in a bar, 5 guys getting closer and closer to you without inviting them to get closer to you, sooner or later you will feel "encircled". Regardless if they wear a heavy perfume or a big stick. You will feel "encircled".

52 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

So accurate too, Trump is a traitor.

Another well thought out response from the high IQ left

Is there any support for the claim that NATO budget was trending down? 

 

Hey, what happened to the “Russian Reset” 

 

Obama and Hillary sure loved them some Russia. 

 

Oh, and remember Obama on a hot mic: “Tell Vlad to give me some space until after the election, and I’ll be flexible on missile defense.”

 

He colluded with Russia for help with his election, and in return he compromised security in the region. 

 

Keep lying lefties, it’s all you have.

1 hour ago, bannork said:

The five guys are all to one side of you, they're not encircling you, and besides you know these 5 guys well. You used to bully some of them, tell them what to do.

It hurts that they told you where to go but that's life. Stop living in the past.

Not much do do with any Europen Wars. But I have been robbed on the "Appalation Trail" by a bunch of wandering Trump supporters, not accepting the fact that I don't believe in the Gospel of Donald. They were not on my side. But that's veering "off topic". Has nothing to do with "Europeana Wars" or Hillbilly wars, having gone on fror decades-

n

 

 

18 hours ago, swissie said:

My post has not reached you intellectually. Sad to say.

 

There is a very simple explanation for that: There is nothing remotely intellectual in your post.

 

18 hours ago, swissie said:

But I wold like to quote you "The EU and its' member states are much more powerful and wealthy economically than Russia so, again, they have absolutely nothing to gain from a conflict.

 

Answer : The EU has no military equippement nor moral support that could avoid the military defeat of the Ukraine.

 

My bad: I was being lazy. The phrase I should have used was 'European NATO members'.

 

So with that in mind please explain what the European NATO members - who are much more powerful and wealthy economically than Russia - would gain from a conflict with Russia?

 

18 hours ago, swissie said:

Quote: "Yet you ignore that the reason for this extension is that Eastern European countries did not want to be under the yoke of Russia again. For them, it was absolutely necessary.

= How about just staying military "neutral"? Conducting business with the West as well as with the Russians?

 

That may well be a quote but it is not one of mine, so I have no idea why you address your reply to me.

 

However, the fact is that Ukraine was militarily neutral from 2010 until September 2022.

 

18 hours ago, swissie said:

Quote: "You also ignore that NATO was absolutely no threat to Russia, as attested by the decrease of military budgets in Europe,  as well as a decrease of U.S. military presence after the collapse of the Soviet Union. 

= If you sit in a bar, 5 guys getting closer and closer to you without inviting them to get closer to you, sooner or later you will feel "encircled". Regardless if they wear a heavy perfume or a big stick. You will feel "encircled".

 

Once again, not my quote. Others have explained why this analogy does not work.

17 hours ago, swissie said:

Not much do do with any Europen Wars. But I have been robbed on the "Appalation Trail" by a bunch of wandering Trump supporters, not accepting the fact that I don't believe in the Gospel of Donald. They were not on my side. But that's veering "off topic". Has nothing to do with "Europeana Wars" or Hillbilly wars, having gone on fror decades-

n

 

 

 

Mods: Please reinstate the 'Confused' emoji. It is badly needed.

Just now, RayC said:

 

Mods: Please reinstate the 'Confused' emoji. It is badly needed.

That and the coffee one.

Ukraine war latest: Trump says Putin 'is not going to mess around with me' on eve of Ukraine summit

 

Donald Trump says Vladimir Putin wants to "make a deal" as he floats holding a trilateral meeting with Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Alaska and "maybe" inviting European leaders.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-putin-trump-meeting-alaska-summit-zelenskyy-russia-nato-missiles-talks-ceasefire-12541713

 

Putin is gonna play Trump like a lapdog, that is my opinion.

On 8/13/2025 at 3:22 PM, swissie said:

Quote: "Yet you ignore that the reason for this extension is that Eastern European countries did not want to be under the yoke of Russia again. For them, it was absolutely necessary.

 

= How about just staying military "neutral"? Conducting business with the West as well as with the Russians?

 

Quote: "You also ignore that NATO was absolutely no threat to Russia, as attested by the decrease of military budgets in Europe,  as well as a decrease of U.S. military presence after the collapse of the Soviet Union. 

 

= If you sit in a bar, 5 guys getting closer and closer to you without inviting them to get closer to you, sooner or later you will feel "encircled". Regardless if they wear a heavy perfume or a big stick. You will feel "encircled".

 

How can you be neutral with a country that ran a secret police force in your country, kidnapped and disappeared people, repressed free speech, free thought, invaded your country with tanks, flattened your citizens.

 

1953

 

1956

 

 

1968

 

 

1981

 

 

1991

 

 

1993

 

 

So they were supposed to be grateful?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2025/08/13/trump-to-present-minerals-deal-to-putin-in-alaska/

 

 

Quote

 

Donald Trump is preparing to offer Vladimir Putin access to rare earth minerals to incentivise him to end the war in Ukraine.

 

The US president will arrive at the much-anticipated meeting with his Russian counterpart on Friday armed with a number of money-making opportunities for Putin.

 

They will include opening up Alaska’s natural resources to Moscow and lifting some of the American sanctions on Russia’s aviation industry, The Telegraph can reveal.

 

Proposals include giving Putin access to the rare earth minerals in the Ukrainian territories currently occupied by Russia.

 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/alaska-arctic-oil-gas-putin-trump-ukraine-war-2113437

 

 

Meanwhile in Russia

 

 

Russian children are taught that America leased Alaska for 100 years, but America forged the document.

 

Since 2017, Russian kids sing the song "Uncle Vova, We Are With You!", which include a line about how, like Sevastopol and Crimea, they are going to get Alaska back.

 

 

 

Tweet from the lead Russian negotiator

 

 

Russia has always stated it will always get back what is theirs.