2 minutes ago, bannork said:

Please stop repeating yourself, it's boooooring.

Whoever said anything about passing the buck?

I'm saying they're both guilty.

Trump of a stupid plan and Biden of a dreadful withdrawal.

Now come on Monte, haven't you got any other cards to play?  You ran out of these three a long time ago. 

 

 

“stop repeating yourself “. Have you read your posts?

 

They’re not both guilty.  Biden was the CINC .  I realize you’re not a USC but that’s how it works in America.

 

CINC has the overall responsibility. The buck stops with him.

 

Trump wasn’t in office nor had Biden ever kept or followed any plan originated by Trump.

Immigration policies and Keystone just two quick references.

 

This was Biden’s disaster solely.

Today it ended up like this..but tomorrow who knows🤔

Not all leftists think alike 

 

Maybe he’ll start a trend on the forum.

 

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Obviously Zelensky can't go to Moscow. That was obviously a troll suggestion. Hungary's leader is a Putin fan so that's not good either. Geneva is good in theory but Putin will probably be too paranoid to fly over the countries needed to get there. 

Unlikely to be Geneva as the airport is in both France and Switzerland

Geneva International Airport, formally named Genève Aéroport, is located 4 km northwest of Geneva city centre.
The airport is partially located within the commune of Meyrin (France) and partially in the commune of Grand-Saconnex (Switzerland), with its northern limit along the Swiss–French border, thus having a Swiss side and a French side. The airport can be accessed from both countries. IATA code for Swiss side is GVA and for French side is GGV.

22 hours ago, theblether said:

The proposed Zelensky and Putin face-to-face summit. If Trump arranges that it will destroy the entire "Putin won in Alaska" narrative. 

 

It puts the entire imbroglio exactly where it should be - between the Russian and Ukranian delegation. 

 

If it falls to pieces at the summit so be it. Just getting these two into the same room is a diplomatic miracle.

 

Look another failure from Trump, but hey he closed the borders, so winning. NOT

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1370298-kremlin-dismisses-zelensky-talks-amid-trumps-putin-warning/

 

The Kremlin has downplayed the potential for a summit between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky. The development comes as US President Donald Trump urged the leaders to negotiate an end to the ongoing war. Despite Trump's calls, he acknowledged the difficulty in resolving the conflict and hinted that Putin may not be interested in making peace.

9 hours ago, Hellfire said:

Now apply the same logic to Russia invading Baltic states, then Poland… Actually, the spirit of Ukrainians is much stronger than that of Poles and Balts combined.So betray those Ukrainian heroes now. Betray them instead of supporting them with all that you only have. And then - expect nothing good for yourself, your children and their children too. You, insects, will get what you truly deserve! 

 

First of all Ukrainians are not "heroes". They have the aid and assistance of billions of dollars from America and the EU, who supply them with materiel. Russia on the other hand is fighting the whole world. Which rather makes the Russians the heroes.

 

Neither are the Ukrainians above killing women civilians, like Darya Dugina.

 

In reality of course there are no heroes in this war. 

8 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

First of all Ukrainians are not "heroes". They have the aid and assistance of billions of dollars from America and the EU, who supply them with materiel. Russia on the other hand is fighting the whole world. Which rather makes the Russians the heroes.

 

Neither are the Ukrainians above killing women civilians, like Darya Dugina.

 

In reality of course there are no heroes in this war. 

The reality is PUTIN invaded his neighbor Ukraine .it is a war of conquest and loot not only that he used almost VERBATIM hitlers excuse to steal the suditanland.The Ukrainian people have been FORCED to defend themselves from raping kidnapping looting hoards of invaders.the world sees this and helps them with the tools to evict the invaders from their country.putin is not fighting the whole world that’s nonsense.

8 minutes ago, Tug said:

The reality is PUTIN invaded his neighbor Ukraine .it is a war of conquest and loot not only that he used almost VERBATIM hitlers excuse to steal the suditanland.The Ukrainian people have been FORCED to defend themselves from raping kidnapping looting hoards of invaders.the world sees this and helps them with the tools to evict the invaders from their country.putin is not fighting the whole world that’s nonsense.

 

Well, since the Ukraine is being supported by the Americans and the EU with billions of Dollars and Euros, with rockets, tanks, artillery etc, in reality the Russians are fighting a good part of the world.

 

I wouldn't call this a war of conquest, it is more of a defensive war to prevent a key neighbour from jumping into the enemy camp and enabling the enemy to weaken Russia.

 

The prehistory is of course NATO's expansion eastwards, counter to their promises, which you conveniently leave out.

 

It's not "the world sees this and helps them with tools", total nonsense of course, since we saw with Boris Johnson flying to see Zelensky and pressuring him not to sign a peace deal with Russia and to fight instead, that this war was wanted by the West, ie America and Britain. It was planned by them, long before the fighting really got under way properly.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Well, since the Ukraine is being supported by the Americans and the EU with billions of Dollars and Euros, with rockets, tanks, artillery etc, in reality the Russians are fighting a good part of the world.

 

I wouldn't call this a war of conquest, it is more of a defensive war to prevent a key neighbour from jumping into the enemy camp and enabling the enemy to weaken Russia.

 

The prehistory is of course NATO's expansion eastwards, counter to their promises, which you conveniently leave out.

 

It's not "the world sees this and helps them with tools", total nonsense of course, since we saw with Boris Johnson flying to see Zelensky and pressuring him not to sign a peace deal with Russia and to fight instead, that this war was wanted by the West, ie America and Britain. It was planned by them, long before the fighting really got under way properly.

 

 

Nonsense everyone would prefer Russia trade freely with the world and continue on the road to a better future for her people…..myself included NOBODY covets Russia nobody .this is a war of putins making.Ill tell you something else,when I see a piece of Russian equipment destroyed I don’t rejoice I grieve for the crew and their families because they are there doing evil things at the direction of one evil individual……here’s a clue it ain’t Zelenskyy.

 

17 minutes ago, Tug said:

Nonsense everyone would prefer Russia trade freely with the world and continue on the road to a better future for her people…..myself included NOBODY covets Russia nobody .this is a war of putins making.Ill tell you something else,when I see a piece of Russian equipment destroyed I don’t rejoice I grieve for the crew and their families because they are there doing evil things at the direction of one evil individual……here’s a clue it ain’t Zelenskyy.

 

 

That's because you and me, we're civilians, we don't think like politicians. However, politicians have to strategize how to weaken their enemy, and this is what the US has done. They have faciliated NATO's eastward expansion, this was a long-planned and executed plan to weaken Russia. Many Western politicians, including Merkel, warned against NATO expansion eastwards. But the Americans, counter to their promises carried it out anyway.

 

The aim was not to allow Russia to obtain a better future, rather the aim was for Russia to have a worse future, to weaken her. Just as Boris Johnson and Biden conspiring to force Zelenksy's hand not to sign a treaty with Russia to end the war was designed to weaken Russia.

 

We should not confuse our feelings with those of politicians in power.

Meetings just for the sake of meetings are worthless. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Miloki said:

The people in your government that were responsible for this will face justice, the hard way or the easy way.

What is supposed to be the "my government" you refer to? If you believe I am Ukrainian, you got it all wrong!

I was born and raised in freedom. And I firmly believe that the best way to protect my personal freedom is to be willing to fight for the freedom of others.

A lesson that every freedom loving person should learn. A concept very well expressed by Martin Niemöller, a German Lutheran pastor who was jailed in a Nazi lager.

 

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

 

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

 

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

 

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

 

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

 

I will not passively wait for my country to become next on Putin's list of countries to be subjugated.

 

13 minutes ago, AndreasHG said:

What is supposed to be the "my government" you refer to? If you believe I am Ukrainian, you got it all wrong!

I was born and raised in freedom. And I firmly believe that the best way to protect my personal freedom is to be willing to fight for the freedom of others.

A lesson that every freedom loving person should learn. A concept very well expressed by Martin Niemöller, a German Lutheran pastor who was jailed in a Nazi lager.

 

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

 

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

 

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

 

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

 

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

 

I will not passively wait for my country to become next on Putin's list of countries to be subjugated.

 

 

Bit of a hysteric nonsense, your country is not on any list of Putin's, don't flatter yourself.

 

Moreover, Niemoeller was an anti-semite who even after the war made a number of anti-semitic remarks.

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

First of all Ukrainians are not "heroes". They have the aid and assistance of billions of dollars from America and the EU, who supply them with materiel. Russia on the other hand is fighting the whole world. Which rather makes the Russians the heroes.

 

Neither are the Ukrainians above killing women civilians, like Darya Dugina.

 

In reality of course there are no heroes in this war. 

Err another memory lapse Cameroni? remind us who is supplying Drones to Russia and the Country supplying Troops to fall in the meat Grinder, I'll give you a clue there leader was nicknamed Rocket Man by your CNC.

7 minutes ago, AndreasHG said:

And I firmly believe that the best way to protect my personal freedom is to be willing to fight for the freedom of others.

....

I will not passively wait for my country to become next on Putin's list of countries to be subjugated.

 

 

Guess I'm kind of confused then.

 

How much time did you spend fighting in Ukraine?

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

That's because you and me, we're civilians, we don't think like politicians. However, politicians have to strategize how to weaken their enemy, and this is what the US has done. They have faciliated NATO's eastward expansion, this was a long-planned and executed plan to weaken Russia. Many Western politicians, including Merkel, warned against NATO expansion eastwards. But the Americans, counter to their promises carried it out anyway.

 

The aim was not to allow Russia to obtain a better future, rather the aim was for Russia to have a worse future, to weaken her. Just as Boris Johnson and Biden conspiring to force Zelenksy's hand not to sign a treaty with Russia to end the war was designed to weaken Russia.

 

We should not confuse our feelings with those of politicians in power.

Correct me Cameroni but wars are fought between armys right ? So why is Putin targeting and killing Men Woman and Children when his Missiles are flattening tower blockes cinemas and hospitals. Explain that.

On 8/19/2025 at 6:23 AM, theblether said:

I thought the coverage of the summit was disgraceful. Far too many talking heads often talking utter fantastical nonsense. 

 

I share some of the distaste of how brown-nosey some of the comments were in front of Trump. 

 

On the other hand the format did give the leaders a chance to say - ceasefire now, a policy that Trump bodyswerved - so he didn't get it all his own way. 

 

However - I'm stunned at one genius turn by Trump which if it comes off will make all the haters look stupid. 

 

The proposed Zelensky and Putin face-to-face summit. If Trump arranges that it will destroy the entire "Putin won in Alaska" narrative. 

 

It puts the entire imbroglio exactly where it should be - between the Russian and Ukranian delegation. 

 

If it falls to pieces at the summit so be it. Just getting these two into the same room is a diplomatic miracle. 

 

We'll see. 

The only ones who looks stupid is the apologists and the European leaders who bow down to this clown, who obviously in his mind think he can make a deal with Putin. Putin and his apologists and allies, have no respect for for Trump or USA or anything we stand for. They fight for their new world order, and that’s not democracy or anything we have been fighting for in the past. We had it all, but abused our chance in time to do the right thing 

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Russia on the other hand is fighting the whole world. Which rather makes the Russians the heroes.

 

Like the Nazis you mean ?  

58 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Err another memory lapse Cameroni? remind us who is supplying Drones to Russia and the Country supplying Troops to fall in the meat Grinder, I'll give you a clue there leader was nicknamed Rocket Man by your CNC.

 

Let's see, On Ukraine's side, they get support from:

 

USA, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Sweden, Filand, Norway, Iceland, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia,, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands,  Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia.

 

On Russia's side, they get support from

 

NKorea, Iran and China.

 

 

Hmmm, who's fighting greater odds, yah...that's a real tough one....

 

Clearly using the Nietzschean definition of "hero" as the one fighting the far greater odds, it is not the Ukrainians who are the heroes, it's the Russians.

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Let's see, On Ukraine's side, they get support from:

 

USA, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Sweden, Filand, Norway, Iceland, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia,, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands,  Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia.

 

On Russia's side, they get support from

 

NKorea, Iran and China.

 

 

Hmmm, who's fighting greater odds, yah...that's a real tough one....

 

Clearly using the Nietzschean definition of "hero" as the one fight the far greater odds, it is not the Ukrainians who are the heroes, it's the Russians.

 

No the REAL heroes are the ones who post on the internet cheering this war on while 69% of Ukrainians want this war over immediately in negotiated settlement.

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/693203/ukrainian-support-war-effort-collapses.aspx

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Meetings just for the sake of meetings are worthless. 

 

 

I would agree with the sentiment, but not the substance.  Unless Zelensky is prepared to make territorial concessions and accept the deal offered to him by Putin,via Trump, then Putin has no intention of meeting him. Why would he? The Russians are undoubtedly winning a grinding war of attrition, and will ultimately take more territory. The Russian economy has largely sanction proofed- itself and the Americans will no longer give Zelensky carte-blance. If Trump really wants a deal he will have to blindside the hapless Europeans and push Zelensky harder.

5 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Let's see, On Ukraine's side, they get support from:

 

USA, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Sweden, Filand, Norway, Iceland, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia,, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands,  Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia.

 

On Russia's side, they get support from

 

NKorea, Iran and China.

 

 

Hmmm, who's fighting greater odds, yah...that's a real tough one....

 

Clearly using the Nietzschean definition of "hero" as the one fight the far greater odds, it is not the Ukrainians who are the heroes, it's the Russians.

History shows us that a bully who invades another country can expect a heavy price to pay in the end as when Hitler invaded Poland.

3 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

History shows us that a bully who invades another country can expect a heavy price to pay in the end as when Hitler invaded Poland.

 

Does it really? What heavy price did the USA have to pay when they invaded Panama?

 

 

1 minute ago, Summerinsiam said:

I would agree with the sentiment, but not the substance.  Unless Zelensky is prepared to make territorial concessions and accept the deal offered to him by Putin,via Trump, then Putin has no intention of meeting him. Why would he? The Russians are undoubtedly winning a grinding war of attrition, and will ultimately take more territory. The Russian economy has largely sanction proofed- itself and the Americans will no longer give Zelensky carte-blance. If Trump really wants a deal he will have to blindside the hapless Europeans and push Zelensky harder.

Europe has offered boots on the ground in any ceasefire is achieved. Have our American Allies comitted boots on the ground too.

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

Does it really? What heavy price did the USA have to pay when they invaded Panama?

 

 

Bit of a difference there Cameroni yanks didn't target civillians Rape them and comit war crimes against the Pananian people.

3 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Europe has offered boots on the ground in any ceasefire is achieved.

 

Which is about the most stupid thing you could possibly do. Put armed forces in harm's way to provoke a war with Russia. What a great plan.

 

Even Biden and Kamala and Johnson were not that stupid.

1 minute ago, BarraMarra said:

Bit of a difference there Cameroni yanks didn't target civillians Rape them and comit war crimes against the Pananian people.

 

Why are you talking about civlian casualties, your point was that history shows invaders of other countries pay a heavy price. So what heavy price did the USA pay when they invade Panama? None.

 

You do realise the Ukrainians have killed civilians? Look up the female journalist Darya Dugina.

3 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Europe has offered boots on the ground in any ceasefire is achieved. Have our American Allies comitted boots on the ground too.

There will never be any boots on the ground from any NATO country as peacekeepers, because the Russians have explcitly ruled this out. It will never happen and the likes of Starmer and the deluded Macron should know this.

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

Why are you talking about civlian casualties, your point was that history shows invaders of other countries pay a heavy price. So what heavy price did the USA pay when they invade Panama? None.

 

You do realise the Ukrainians have killed civilians? Look up the female journalist Darya Dugina.

You know full well how many countrys helped defeat Germany Cameroni don't try that old one. Your clutching at Straws.

1 minute ago, Summerinsiam said:

There will never be any boots on the ground from any NATO country as peacekeepers, because the Russians have explcitly ruled this out. It will never happen and the likes of Starmer and the deluded Macron should know this.

Do you think Putin will end hostilities and stop at the border Summerinsiam ?