8 hours ago, Canoodler said:

 

 
Thanks, The changing from a retirement visa option ( 800,000.00 Baht ) to a married visa option ( 400,000.00 Baht ) is an option I had not thought of , doing that would release 400,000.00 Baht back into my Thai bank savings account. The other option that went through my mind , and I understand it can be some what risky , would be to use a ‘’ Visa Agent ‘’ that may cost around 25,000.00 Baht  each year. Doing the visa ‘’ agent ‘’ would then free up the 800,000.00 Baht that was being used for a retirement visa. 

Using an agent would be the last thing as banks are shutting down fake acct from scammers and the agent option will become difficult and potentially impossible in the future as those acct\documents are related.   In your situation I wouldnt gamble with agents providing false documents as if it stops you're behind as you cant produce the proper paperwork and could lose your permission to stay.

Cigna Global has an excellent record for paying claims.

 

OP, forgot to mention that there is an alternative Cigna Global policy called Close Care with loeer premiums than their standard policies (assuming that's what you have). I do not know if you can roll over from one policy type to another -- should discuss with a broker specializing in expat polivies.

 

At your age changing insurers is  not a good idea. What you describe of your  finances does not sound very suitable for self insuring. 

 

You would  be abandoning your  policy at the time of lifr you are most likely to need it/ make use of it. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

an alternative Cigna Global policy called Close Care with lower premiums

When I checked that out, it was lower but not that much. The total payout/coverage is much lower, and I believe it said that you don't get a private room. That was the deal breaker for me. Maybe details have changed as that was over one year ago.

8 hours ago, Dan O said:

Using an agent would be the last thing as banks are shutting down fake acct from scammers and the agent option will become difficult and potentially impossible in the future as those acct\documents are related.   In your situation I wouldnt gamble with agents providing false documents as if it stops you're behind as you cant produce the proper paperwork and could lose your permission to stay.

Get up to speed, the agents aren't providing false documents for new expat accounts, they are simply greasing the wheels and is a much quicker process, of course the 800k in and out could be stopped one day but people have been saying that for 20 years

Duplicate system error again

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Cigna Global has an excellent record for paying claims.

 

OP, forgot to mention that there is an alternative Cigna Global policy called Close Care with loeer premiums than their standard policies (assuming that's what you have). I do not know if you can roll over from one policy type to another -- should discuss with a broker specializing in expat polivies.

 

At your age changing insurers is  not a good idea. What you describe of your  finances does not sound very suitable for self insuring. 

 

You would  be abandoning your  policy at the time of lifr you are most likely to need it/ make use of it. 

 

 

 

Ive just checked my Cigna policy paper work and its showing that its the Close Care option

 

If using a visa agent is too risky , the only other safer option I can see apart from self insuring , seems to be changing from my current retirement visa ( 800,000.00 Baht ) to the married visa option ( 400,000.00 Baht ) which would then make 400,000.00 Baht available to use.  The new Cigna monthly payment of 18,500.00 Baht , works out to 222,000,00 Baht per year , so in theory if I terminated my Cigna health insurance policy , I would be saving 222,000,00 Baht , which means that if I needed any inpatient medical hospital treatment , that saving of 222,000,00 Baht , could be used to pay for or in part for any inpatient medical hospital treatment required.

 

I’m still not 100% sure which course of action to take , I suppose I could just carry on paying the ever increasing Cigna health insurance monthly payments , over the coming years ,  until my savings of 2 Million Baht reaches a critical low point . 

 

I have had an email from Cigna about ways to reduce the monthly payment cost and this was their reply shown below 

 (Start)  This would change the renewal price 

 

£2000 deductible = £389.36 per month.

£5000 deductible = £345.15 per month.

£6650 deductible = £307.70 per month.

 

Converted to Thai Baht shown below 

 

 £2000 deductible ( 85,935.86 Thai Baht )

 

£5000 deductible ( 214,839.65 Thai Baht )

 

£6650 deductible ( 285, 736.73 Thai Baht )

 

There are 2 other options to reduce cost and that is how the premium is paid over the policy year. If you pay quarterly, it adds a 3% discount. And then if paid annually it’s a 10% discount. ( End ) 

All the above Cigna options don’t seem to make a great difference .

 

This whole Cigna health insurance / my financial situation is stressing me out to a point where its constantly playing on my mind. 
 

 

8 hours ago, how241 said:

When I checked that out, it was lower but not that much. The total payout/coverage is much lower, and I believe it said that you don't get a private room. That was the deal breaker for me. Maybe details have changed as that was over one year ago.

The Cigna health insurance policy I have is the Close Care option ( see the attached chart ) 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Canoodler said:

 

Ive just checked my Cigna policy paper work and its showing that its the Close Care option

 

If using a visa agent is too risky , the only other safer option I can see apart from self insuring , seems to be changing from my current retirement visa ( 800,000.00 Baht ) to the married visa option ( 400,000.00 Baht ) which would then make 400,000.00 Baht available to use.  The new Cigna monthly payment of 18,500.00 Baht , works out to 222,000,00 Baht per year , so in theory if I terminated my Cigna health insurance policy , I would be saving 222,000,00 Baht , which means that if I needed any inpatient medical hospital treatment , that saving of 222,000,00 Baht , could be used to pay for or in part for any inpatient medical hospital treatment required.

 

I’m still not 100% sure which course of action to take , I suppose I could just carry on paying the ever increasing Cigna health insurance monthly payments , over the coming years ,  until my savings of 2 Million Baht reaches a critical low point . 

 

I have had an email from Cigna about ways to reduce the monthly payment cost and this was their reply shown below 

 (Start)  This would change the renewal price 

 

£2000 deductible = £389.36 per month.

£5000 deductible = £345.15 per month.

£6650 deductible = £307.70 per month.

 

Converted to Thai Baht shown below 

 

 £2000 deductible ( 85,935.86 Thai Baht )

 

£5000 deductible ( 214,839.65 Thai Baht )

 

£6650 deductible ( 285, 736.73 Thai Baht )

 

There are 2 other options to reduce cost and that is how the premium is paid over the policy year. If you pay quarterly, it adds a 3% discount. And then if paid annually it’s a 10% discount. ( End ) 

All the above Cigna options don’t seem to make a great difference .

 

This whole Cigna health insurance / my financial situation is stressing me out to a point where its constantly playing on my mind. 
 

 

That stress could make you ill.......

 

This is a situation which many of us face/will face as we get older.  If the insurance premium is too high now, think what it will be like in 10 years from now.

 

What can one do?  One option is to return permanently to your home country if it offers free medical care (eg NHS in the UK).  But if you have a Thai wife etc, then that kind of relocation is probably not an option.

 

The other option is - as others have suggested - to self-insure and also to accept the temporality (is that a real word?) of our life.  We are all mortal, and medicine/hospital care cannot make us immortal.

You have all been scammed by stand alone insurance plans. Thais usually get a life insurance and bundle it with health insurance starting at about 30k per year. To get the maximum benefit this needs to be paid for at least 10 years. As a foreigner you can get this insurance bundle if you are on correct visa and I think there is the age limit. Starting in your 50's is ok. 60 probably too late.

 

20 hours ago, Canoodler said:

 Thanks, The idea of investing some of the 2 million Baht in my savings account , has gone through my mind, but it felt a bit scary.

Stack the 18K baht and enjoy yourself. 
 

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Cigna Global has an excellent record for paying claims.

 

OP, forgot to mention that there is an alternative Cigna Global policy called Close Care with loeer premiums than their standard policies (assuming that's what you have). I do not know if you can roll over from one policy type to another -- should discuss with a broker specializing in expat polivies.

 

At your age changing insurers is  not a good idea. What you describe of your  finances does not sound very suitable for self insuring. 

 

You would  be abandoning your  policy at the time of lifr you are most likely to need it/ make use of it. 

Agree. Present premium isn't excessive considering the coverage and quality company. Do you really want to take a chance at this point in your life?  

This is why i have never had health insurance for the past 20 years. I have saved close to 2 million baht in premiums and like yourself in my 70s could probably not afford a premium of 200,000+ a year. The problem is you have invested a very large sum in premiums so far but in your position you probably have no choice but to ditch it.  This is what these vultures want, for you to pay while you are healthly then price you out as you get older.

20 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

That's what I was thinking, that you would have to move back for it to work. I have to return if I need Medicare, but will be moving back anyway asap, and then I need to get Medicare part B, which covers the doctor visits and referrals. 

Since you are moving back anyway, that is a good option. How long has it been since you had part B? For me, who plans to live here, that option doesn't work so well. The added 10% for each year of not having part B has increased what I would have to pay monthly quite a bit, and then there is the wait time for the coverage to kick in. I believe part A only pays for a 6-month hospital stay. If I know I am on my way out, and I am allowed on a plane, that maybe my course of action.

2 minutes ago, bunnydrops said:

Since you are moving back anyway, that is a good option. How long has it been since you had part B? For me, who plans to live here, that option doesn't work so well. The added 10% for each year of not having part B has increased what I would have to pay monthly quite a bit, and then there is the wait time for the coverage to kick in. I believe part A only pays for a 6-month hospital stay. If I know I am on my way out, and I am allowed on a plane, that maybe my course of action.

I haven't yet applied to Part B. As I get older, I know there's a possibility I might need it someday, so when I move back I'll get it, as I'll need it to see a doctor and for their referral to the hospital for any treatment I might need. 

55 minutes ago, simon43 said:

That stress could make you ill.......

 

This is a situation which many of us face/will face as we get older.  If the insurance premium is too high now, think what it will be like in 10 years from now.

 

What can one do?  One option is to return permanently to your home country if it offers free medical care (eg NHS in the UK).  But if you have a Thai wife etc, then that kind of relocation is probably not an option.

 

The other option is - as others have suggested - to self-insure and also to accept the temporality (is that a real word?) of our life.  We are all mortal, and medicine/hospital care cannot make us immortal.

 

Thanks for your comment .

 

At the ripe old age of 75 , where my health is concerned, it feels like being between a rock and a hard place, one the one hand my mind is telling me to be sensible and plan for the future , by arranging expensive private medical insurance , even if doing that causes me increasing amounts of stress and anxiety . One the other hand , as recommended by many of my local Thailand based retired expat friends , who keep reminding me to just enjoy life and spend my money just enjoying myself , and to stop worrying about what may never happen .But I think a large number of my retired expat friends who are normally in a state of constant happiness due to the help they receive from their friends , Mr Chang beer and Mr Cannabis .

 

As for returning back to permanently live the uk, again because of my poor financial situation , sadly that is not an option .

56 minutes ago, Celsius said:

You have all been scammed by stand alone insurance plans. Thais usually get a life insurance and bundle it with health insurance starting at about 30k per year. To get the maximum benefit this needs to be paid for at least 10 years. As a foreigner you can get this insurance bundle if you are on correct visa and I think there is the age limit. Starting in your 50's is ok. 60 probably too late.

 

If only I could turn back the clock and do things differently .

10 minutes ago, Canoodler said:

 

Thanks for your comment .

 

At the ripe old age of 75 , where my health is concerned, it feels like being between a rock and a hard place, one the one hand my mind is telling me to be sensible and plan for the future , by arranging expensive private medical insurance , even if doing that causes me increasing amounts of stress and anxiety . One the other hand , as recommended by many of my local Thailand based retired expat friends , who keep reminding me to just enjoy life and spend my money just enjoying myself , and to stop worrying about what may never happen .But I think a large number of my retired expat friends who are normally in a state of constant happiness due to the help they receive from their friends , Mr Chang beer and Mr Cannabis .

 

As for returning back to permanently live the uk, again because of my poor financial situation , sadly that is not an option .

I usually live in Myanmar and Laos, with very poor medical care.  I have medical insurance, but if I had a major accident or medical event, then I'd probably be dead long before decent medical care arrives.

 

I accept this situation.  I try to mitigate this by leading a healthy lifestyle, eating healthy foods, walking 5km every day, riding my motorbike slowly and wearing a crash helmet.  I had an ECG/heart stress test in Thailand a few months ago - everything was squeaky clean 🙂.  I try to have general bloodwork tests every 6 months.

 

In your situation, I would drop the medical insurance if you can't afford the premiums and it's stressing you out.  Visit your local government hospital and register with them now to minimise paperwork delays, should you need their medical help in the future.

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

You have all been scammed by stand alone insurance plans. Thais usually get a life insurance and bundle it with health insurance starting at about 30k per year. To get the maximum benefit this needs to be paid for at least 10 years. As a foreigner you can get this insurance bundle if you are on correct visa and I think there is the age limit. Starting in your 50's is ok. 60 probably too late.

 

Thanks , thats interesting.

50 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Agree. Present premium isn't excessive considering the coverage and quality company. Do you really want to take a chance at this point in your life?  

Thats the question that I’m trying to answer in my own mind , but its not that easy.

33 minutes ago, henryford1958 said:

This is why i have never had health insurance for the past 20 years. I have saved close to 2 million baht in premiums and like yourself in my 70s could probably not afford a premium of 200,000+ a year. The problem is you have invested a very large sum in premiums so far but in your position you probably have no choice but to ditch it.  This is what these vultures want, for you to pay while you are healthly then price you out as you get older.

 

I try and not to think about the total amount of money that Ive paid to Cigna over all the past years , hindsight can some times be frightening. I wish I could turn the clock back in time . This old saying springs to mind… You made a rod for your own back.

 

Regarding private insurance, a few months ago I needed emergency surgery in the evening at a private hospital and was asked if I had private insurance. I said no.

The answer was, "Well, in that case, we can operate immediately."

 

Regarding the information above, the answer is that in Thailand, treatment in public hospitals is much less expensive, and sometimes the quality of the hospital service can be surprising. So, even if you forgo private insurance, you won't be left without medical care.

24 minutes ago, Canoodler said:

If only I could turn back the clock and do things differently .

The insurance company has made a good profit off of you. No matter what your needs will be in the future, you will never recoup your investment.  Insurance is a gamble. Keep it and know they will do everything they can to keep you alive another day, drop it and in a month you may wish you had it. I, too, wish I had started that health savings account that I thought about starting so many years ago. I am near 80 and can't get health insurance. My choice is to spend my savings to get that extra day, or accept fate, and leave some for those who survive me.

22 hours ago, Packer said:

Ditch it straight away. 

 

Keep 800,000 in the bank for the visa

Invest the 1.2 million left over. Perhaps a condo in a nearby city to rent out, or investment account paying monthly or annually. 

 

5% return on the 1.2 million is 5,000 per month, added to your 30,000 pension. Giving you 35,000 per month.

 

Make the 1.2 million investment easy enough to turn to cash and that will be your insurance should you need it before passing away. 

 

 

That's like the worst possible advice you could give knowing the situation he described. In that case at least use common sense and suggest gold.

9 minutes ago, bunnydrops said:

The insurance company has made a good profit off of you. No matter what your needs will be in the future, you will never recoup your investment.  Insurance is a gamble. Keep it and know they will do everything they can to keep you alive another day, drop it and in a month you may wish you had it. I, too, wish I had started that health savings account that I thought about starting so many years ago. I am near 80 and can't get health insurance. My choice is to spend my savings to get that extra day, or accept fate, and leave some for those who survive me.

Thats the part that haunts me , a month after I had terminated my Cigna private health policy , I had chest pains and found my self in a hospital ICU . 

 

You have a decent savings account with 2 million baht in it, I don't know what the results would be when you unfroze that other pension but I doubt the money it cost you is a waste, even if it costs a year worth of that pension to sort it out, if you stay alive another 5 years, that is 4 years of extra free money already.

 

In terms of that insurance, obviously cancel it right now today, that is even a safer bet to pay in cash if not going to the most fancy hospitals. You can't afford the insurance, simple as that.

4 minutes ago, Canoodler said:

Thats the part that haunts me , a month after I had terminated my Cigna private health policy , I had chest pains and found my self in a hospital ICU . 

 

Stress is a good reason to get those health issues too, and the insurance prices are giving it to you lol. Buy some leo's instead now you can live more decent again and you will calm down. You can easily survive a very big hit with your savings account, that's already an insurance itself. 

6 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

That's like the worst possible advice you could give knowing the situation he described. In that case at least use common sense and suggest gold.

 

Sorry, but yours is also bad advice. Gold is now a speculation and is at its highest, and everything suggests it is close to a collapse like it did a few years ago.

The near end of the war in Ukraine could be the catalyst.

2 minutes ago, BE88 said:

 

Sorry, but yours is also bad advice. Gold is now a speculation and is at its highest, and everything suggests it is close to a collapse like it did a few years ago.

The near end of the war in Ukraine could be the catalyst.

Yeah dream on with that, if you expect gold to drop you should be more worried about pension funds collapsing next to the housing market and the stock market all in the same time. You think gold is up a lot? Maybe you forgot the USD supply doubled during covid alone. Bitcoin from that perspective in reality is still only at 50-60K today.

10 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Yeah dream on with that, if you expect gold to drop you should be more worried about pension funds collapsing next to the housing market and the stock market all in the same time. You think gold is up a lot? Maybe you forgot the USD supply doubled during covid alone. Bitcoin from that perspective in reality is still only at 50-60K today.

My pension funds are all backed by the UK government

If they were to fail it would be TEOTWAWKI

And sacks of shelf stable food would have more value than gold

21 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Stress is a good reason to get those health issues too, and the insurance prices are giving it to you lol. Buy some leo's instead now you can live more decent again and you will calm down. You can easily survive a very big hit with your savings account, that's already an insurance itself. 

 

I wish I could be more like many of my local retired expat friends , who seem to consume large amounts of Chang beer / smoke cannabis , which apparently seems to have the effect of not having a care in the world. I would love to some way calm my mind down .