11 minutes ago, johng said:

Totally illegal   and  be careful what you wish for  as it sets a  bad precedent.

Well, Putin has confiscated western assets already.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-deal-russian-frozen-assets-ukraine-loan-belgium/

3 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

Well, Putin has confiscated western assets already.

In retaliation of seized Russian assets they seized "western" assets in the country  in some cases the western companies  left of their own accord due to social pressure and virtual signaling.

 

This proposed money grab is another order of magnitude , stupidity and lawlessness.

21 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

Well, Putin has confiscated western assets already.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-deal-russian-frozen-assets-ukraine-loan-belgium/

 

The Ford factory, where they used to build Transits and Mondeos, is now making drones.

14 minutes ago, johng said:

In retaliation of seized Russian assets they seized "western" assets in the country  in some cases the western companies  left of their own accord due to social pressure and virtual signaling.

 

This proposed money grab is another order of magnitude , stupidity and lawlessness.

 

Presumably you have similar objections to seized Iranian government assets being used to compensate victims of Iranian terror.

 

Yes, its likely to fuel US interest rates for obvious reasons, and arguably, it breaks the U.N. Convention on Jurisdictional Immunities of States and Their Property.

3 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

Presumably you have similar objections to seized Iranian government assets being used to compensate victims of Iranian terror.

 

Well of course because  there can not be one standard for you and one for me  can there ?   if its OK to seize assets then its a free for all and there is no rule of law or international rules based standards anymore.

What this article doesn't mention is it seems the 1st Gripen will be delivered 3 years after the finalised contract.

At least now I start to accept the argument that many European countries are heavily vested that the war continuous so juicy defense spending can oil the political class's pockets...... 'to the last Ukrainian'!, as Ms. Lindsey Graham used to say.

20 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

1st Gripen will be delivered 3 years after the finalised contract

I mentioned it but think I got away with it 😝

11 minutes ago, johng said:

I mentioned it but think I got away with it 😝

Yes you did. Even Tomahawks which wouldn't be delivered overnight will take 6-12 even up to 18 months before they can be trained to use them.

3 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

 

Presumably you have similar objections to seized Iranian government assets being used to compensate victims of Iranian terror.

 

Yes, its likely to fuel US interest rates for obvious reasons, and arguably, it breaks the U.N. Convention on Jurisdictional Immunities of States and Their Property.

The question of funding yet to be resolved before any deliveries are made for aircraft yet to be made !

There is more need to heed the propaganda element than the threat to Putin !

Last week it  was Tomahawks but the handles fell off !

9 hours ago, impulse said:

I'd characterize it as another disaster for Ukrainians. 

 

Just enough support to perpetuate the killing and dying.  Nowhere near enough for a Ukrainian victory.  That would take NATO boots on the ground and the risk of WW3 and Armageddon.

The question is, will Ukraine run out of military age conscripts before Putin runs out of whatever is motivating him?

 

Here is the actual situation as it presents itself currently:

 

- The Russian army still consists of volunteers, receiving between 20 to 40thousand Euros when they enlist. A lot of money for any young Russians. No conscription in Russia.

 

And the Ukraine? Conscripting 40 year old men as the pipeline of young men is exhausted. Ukrainiann frontline soldiers with no "home leave" for a year or more. Wars are (and will be) won by the one that has the most boots on the ground. 

 

Should the Russians switch to "conscription", the Ukrainian war would soon come to an end. 

 

12 hours ago, johng said:

 

Well of course because  there can not be one standard for you and one for me  can there ?   if its OK to seize assets then its a free for all and there is no rule of law or international rules based standards anymore.

 

So you are in the habit of ignoring court orders? Court orders are rules, aren't they. You can't selectively obey the law because it doesn't suit you. And what is legal about Putin's aggression? He literally broke Russian law in 2022 when his forces crossed the border in Ukraine. What is legal about his deliberate targeting of civilians? What is legal about his pressganging of foreign nationals in Russia. What is legal about his repression of the opposition? What is legal about his shadow fleet of oil tankers?

 

We seized Nazi Germany's overseas assets (frozen); you would have favoured letting the Nazis gain access to that? Saddam Hiusseins bank accounts were used to reconstruct Iraq.

7 hours ago, swissie said:

Here is the actual situation as it presents itself currently:

 

- The Russian army still consists of volunteers, receiving between 20 to 40thousand Euros when they enlist. A lot of money for any young Russians. No conscription in Russia.

 

And the Ukraine? Conscripting 40 year old men as the pipeline of young men is exhausted. Ukrainiann frontline soldiers with no "home leave" for a year or more. Wars are (and will be) won by the one that has the most boots on the ground. 

 

Should the Russians switch to "conscription", the Ukrainian war would soon come to an end. 

 

 

You are misinformed. Russia does have conscription. As of April, 2025, all males, except those in full time education, aged 18-30, are required to serve 12 months, unpaid. Previously it was 18-28. There were a few people aged 28-30 who had previously never served because of extended higher education. Russian Youtuber NFKRZ goes into some detail the process, and how Russians try and game the fitness test rules, to delay entry.

 

The increase in age is indicative of manning issues in the Russian army. Officially conscripts do not serve in combat zones. When Ukraine went into Kursk, they captured a lot of shocked conscripts.

 

Those in the combat areas have a contract, the so called professionals. This includes convicts and pressganged Bangladeshis/Somalians/Indians/Nepalese etc. They are not paid a bonus of 20-30k Euros. Their bonus is paid in rubles, and varies depending on where they come from Recently, the Russian government cut sign on bonuses on Tatarastan recruits from 3.1m rubles to 800,000 rubles. Belgorad recuits, from near the border with Ukraine, previously received sign on bonues of 800,000 rubles to 500,000 rubles. About 2 trillion rubles has been spent on recruitment and support during H1 2025. 400 million rubles went on recruitment (so you can do the math), 865 million rubles on salaries and 765 million rubles in compensation to the dead and maimed. Injury compensation ranges from 100,000 rubles for minor injuries, 1 million for significant injuries (1-2 limbs lost) to 3 million for severe injuries (vegetable). In service compensation consists of a one off payment of 3 million for the injury and 2 million for the death. This data comes from the Russian Defence Ministry and Rosstat.

 

In Ukraine, since 2022, all men aged 18-60 are prohibited from leaving Ukraine (though clearly some do, for holidays).  Until April 2024, all men aged 27 to 60 were liable to conscription, subject to fitness and whether they were in a protected occupation (which is a pretty normal thing in wartime; society doesn't stop just because of a war). The Americans wanted it lowered to 18. Under pressure from the Americans, Ukraine recently lowered it to 25, so your explanation is complete <deleted> and a deliberate falsehood.

 

All Ukrainian  troops aged 18-25 are volunteers. Those signing the Contract18-24 are paid a 1 million hryvnia bonus, split into a small sign on bomnus followed by staged payments.

 

This article explains the logic behind Ukraine's reluctance to lower the age of conscription.

https://www.forcesnews.com/ukraine/ukraine-faces-seemingly-endless-russian-soldiers-refuses-send-18-years-war

 

 

Anywhere from 200,000 and 400,000 Russians have been killed. And probably a similar number (or a little less) for Ukraine, but there is a key historic difference. About 15,000 Soviet troops died in Afghanistan. Likely 10x that number of Afghans were killed fighting for their country.  But 30+ years later, the USSR is a memory, and Afghanistan is still very much there.

 

The Soviet Union collapsed for many reasons, and one of those reasons was the activism of the Committee of Soldiers’ Mothers. The Soviet Army put up this myth of the tough Soviet soldier, able to absorb monumental losses that Western armies couldn't stomach. The truth is that the Soviet losses in WW2 were huge not because of heroic defiance of the Soviet soldier, but the murderous incompetance of their commanders. Like today's Russian soldier, they didn't have much choice (and when they did, the Soviet surrenders were biblical in scale).

 

In Afghanistan, the Soviet government covered up losses. The Committee of Soldiers’ Mothers got the government to admit to the losses, and the brutality that existed in the military. This contributed to erosion of the faith on the state, and its subsequent downfall. Soviet opinion rejected the war in Afghanistan as being a patriotic war.

 

In Ukraine, Russian soldiers have to be paid to fight, whether voluntarily, through trickery or through threat. What are they fighting for? Some sort dream of Vlad, to return a state none of them remember, their dads barely remember. For Ukrainian troops, paid or not, its rather simple, for their country. Russian troops can always turn around and go home.

16 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Its very clear to me that posts as quoted above are just a troll.

I'm not the one defending Putin.

20 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

I doubt India agrees with that after losing 4 to a single Chinese made plane in the fight with Pakistan.

Link please id like to learn more about that.

17 hours ago, Hellfire said:

If it did not happen right after the fall of the USSR, it certainly will not happen now. Today, the people of Russia are much more familiar with the wider world, with democratic values, and with real capitalism. Putin is the last remnant of the Russian and Soviet imperial mindset. Now, as the remaining members of the Soviet generation — people whose minds were brainwashed by Soviet propaganda — pass away, Russia will gain a real opportunity to break with its past.

God I hope so they have so much to offer.Its heartbreaking from my view they seemed to be coming around before putin and his evil designs.I hope he gets his flying lessons soon!!

17 hours ago, Peter Crow said:

That's just great, now that US is unreliable, but will Grippen be able to produce them fast enough? 

I’m sure the creative Ukrainians and the EU folks are busy designing and building home grown variants of cruse missiles with long legs now that trump has proven more of an asset to the enemy than our allies/ erstwhile allies.

18 hours ago, Hellfire said:

I am 100% sure about it. Russia is a personalist dictatorship. Most people of Russia are really tired of Putin and his war. Especially the younger generation.

When Putin dies or is "removed" the subsequent fight to reach the top of the dung heap will occupy Russia for several years, that will probably pause their attempts to invade Ukraine. By the time whoever succeeds is ready, willing, secure enough or able to resume, Ukraine will be much stronger.

Troll post removed 

 

@newbee2022

2 hours ago, Tug said:

Its heartbreaking from my view they seemed to be coming around before putin and his evil designs.

Your view has no basis in fact or reality

22 hours ago, impulse said:

I'd characterize it as another disaster for Ukrainians. 

 

Just enough support to perpetuate the killing and dying.  Nowhere near enough for a Ukrainian victory.  That would take NATO boots on the ground and the risk of WW3 and Armageddon.

The question is, will Ukraine run out of military age conscripts before Putin runs out of whatever is motivating him?

 

No problem as they should be able to rustle up 1 or 2 soldiers from NATO.

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Your view has no basis in fact or reality

Oh please you grovel daily before your deity trump and try to bark at me about facts and reality lmao 🤣 oh boy!

2 minutes ago, Tug said:

Oh please you grovel daily before your deity trump and try to bark at me about facts and reality lmao 🤣 oh boy!

LOL. Sure LOL. 

7 hours ago, Tug said:

Link please id like to learn more about that.

 

No Gripens operated by Indian Air Force.

 

 

 

On 10/23/2025 at 11:10 AM, CallumWK said:

 

Russia ran out of military age conscripts ages ago, they are now using volunteers and mobilizing citizens

As well as recruiting guys from all over Africa and Asia. I also read that quite a few Cubans ‘volunteered’. Not to mention the tens of thousands of North Koreans forced by Kim to go and fight in Russia.

It doesn’t matter to Putin one bit who you are or where you’re from: all he’s interested in is fresh canon fodder to throw into the meat grinder. 

On 10/23/2025 at 11:10 AM, CallumWK said:

 

Russia ran out of military age conscripts ages ago, they are now using volunteers and mobilizing citizens

And poor brainwashed soldiers from North Korea.Might need to bring them all back from Thailand soon.

2 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

No Gripens operated by Indian Air Force.

 

 

 

5 planes shoot down were 3 French made Rafales and one each MiG-29 and Su-30. India has neither denied or confirmed the downing. You correct that Indian AF does not currently have Gripen. 

On 10/23/2025 at 12:37 PM, Hellfire said:

We need Putin dead or removed for young people on both sides to stop dying.

While no one can foretell how Russian opinion may develop, present indications are that currently the main dissent to Putin comes from hard-liners dissatisfied with his reluctance to react strongly to repeated provocations.

 

If the hard-liners were to take power in Russia a nuclear holocaust might result and cause mega-deaths well beyond the Ukraine's borders.

 

Is this really what leading western politicians want?

 

Or are they merely playing highly dangerous games with the lives of their citizens, and of generations as yet unborn?

On 10/23/2025 at 9:43 AM, CharlieH said:

affirming potential deliveries within the next three years

Is that going to arrive on time? If Ukraine is still standing and defending itself from invasion, the battles will mostly be fought with remote or AI controlled drones, not human fighter pilots.

12 hours ago, ericbj said:

While no one can foretell how Russian opinion may develop, present indications are that currently the main dissent to Putin comes from hard-liners dissatisfied with his reluctance to react strongly to repeated provocations.

 

If the hard-liners were to take power in Russia a nuclear holocaust might result and cause mega-deaths well beyond the Ukraine's borders.

 

Is this really what leading western politicians want?

 

Or are they merely playing highly dangerous games with the lives of their citizens, and of generations as yet unborn?

These are all fear-mongering myths of Putin’s propaganda, similar to his own repeated threats to use nuclear technology. Putin single-handedly started this insane war. He is its main architect and sponsor. There is no more radical spectrum in Russian politics (just as there is no real politics at all). Alcoholic generals and half-witted TV hosts are merely executing Kremlin orders (with their fake radical statements).