Isaan Funeral

[Guemlum]

For those who might be interested, and have never taken part in such an event, I thought I would post my recent experiences in taking part in my father-in-laws funeral. Forgive me for not being able to name each ceremony (in Thai) that took place, so I'll try to describe what happened as best as possible. This is a rather long post.

My wife and I had only got married 3 weeks prior, and were not sure if he'd even make it to the wedding. We believe it was what kept him going, and were extremely happy that he witnessed the event.

I could see it coming, and 2 days before I was due to return to the UK decided to extend my stay by 2 weeks, change my flight, and run across the friendship bridge to extend my visa.

Probably one of the best decisions I made, as 3 days later my father-in-law passed away. I could never have lived with the guilt of returning home, only to be called by my wife a few days later with the news he had died. His final day was a painful day. We were all by his side as he left this world.

Once the initial shock of him dying and the tears were over, which all in all lasted about 15 minutes; a train of events was to unfold which lasted 7 days.

My wife, her brothers and sisters carried his body into the bathroom where they disrobed him, washed his body from head to foot, and dressed him. They also removed the catheter, which had been administered by the local hospital.

Whilst this was taking place, I had jumped into the back of the family pickup with several male family members and driven to the local temple where we picked up an enormous air-conditioned coffin inlayed with mother of pearl. It took 12 of us to carry to coffin onto the pickup. Along with the coffin, came other items from the temple such as carpets, tables, statues and various items, which would be used by the monks for the next 7 days.

Upon our return, we lay his body in a wooden box, which was then put inside the huge air-chilled coffin. The coffin now remains in the home until the day of the cremation.

The next few hours were a bit of a blur, but the events, which were about to unfold, were carried out with military precision and had been planned out for a while prior to his death.

The following seven days involved people coming and going, eating and drinking for 24 hrs a day, monks visiting the home every night to carry out various ceremonies, and very little sleep for all involved.

My wife once showed me some photos from her mother's funeral, and I'd noticed from these photos that it was a requirement, though not necessary, that the immediate male members of the family became a monk on the day of the cremation.

I had already made the decision of becoming a monk for the day, without anyone even asking me if I wanted to do so. It was as far as I'm concerned the final show of respect that I could give to my father-in-law. I did this for no one else, not even my wife and purely for him. This decision was a shock and surprise to the family, but one, which was welcomed with open arms. I don't do anything in life simply to earn respect as a result of ones actions, but this earned me huge respect within the family and local community, but something I was not looking for.

You see, I loved my father-in-law and my wife's family. Although they are from Isaan they are not the type of family that have been tarnished with the same brush that a lot of family's are tarnished with, especially if a member is married to a farrang. We all have the same level of respect for each other.

The Cremation

11 of us had decided to be monks for the day. This involved a trip to the barbers where we all in turn had our heads and eyebrows shaved off. We were then taken to the temple where we took part in a small ceremony and given our monks robes. All jewellery was to be removed, as were any under garments. We went commando. I also had to learn some Thai prayers that had to be repeated 3 times upon receiving my robes.

We were now monks and were treated with the same respect that any monk would be treated with. I was not allowed to refer to my wife as "Tilak" or by any other pet name, and was to simply call her by her given name. If I needed anything from her, she was to put it on the floor in front of me, and not to give it to me directly. This seemed a little uncomfortable for a while, but I soon got used to it.

Once again we (monks only) piled into the back of a pickup whilst family and friends removed the coffin from the home and loaded it onto the back of a small flat bed lorry. The lorry was at the back of the procession, in the middle were friends and family, and leading was the pickup full of monks. We all held in our hands a long piece of string which in turn was held by every person in between the two vehicles and which was tied to the coffin itself. Everyone present had to be in contact with the coffin via the piece of string.

The procession left the house with one vehicle up ahead throwing popcorn onto the road in front of the procession and letting of firecrackers at the same time. I'm not quite sure what the meaning of the popcorn throwing was about, but the firecrackers were to ward off evil spirits.

Upon arriving at the temple, we all walked in procession 3 times around the oven, which was to cremate my father-in-law. To my surprise, this was not some type of medieval fire but a state of the art, oven that was computer controlled. You could even watch the interior via a heat sensitive TV.

After about 2 hours of talks and further ceremonies and presentations, it was time for the cremation. After about 500 of the guests had left, only the immediate family were left for the actual cremation. The wooden box was removed from the air-chilled coffin and lowered onto some trestles where the lid was removed, and the video camera turned off. The oldest son then lent over his body and removed a small cloth hiding his face, with his teeth. This cannot be removed by your hands and has to be done by your teeth. After the initial shock of seeing a 7-day-old dead and frozen body we all took it in turns to pour coconut oil over his face and body. A few prayers were said and then he was placed inside the oven. We were then ushered around the other side where we could view the cremation on a heat sensitive TV up until the point where the coffin filled up with smoke and could see no more.

It took 9 hours for the body to be fully cremated. We returned the following morning where his remains had been placed on a small table. Along side his remains were several sets of chopsticks and a small bowl. Each family member using chopsticks proceeded to sift through his remains to see if they could find any teeth as a keepsake. Anything found was placed into the small bowl. His remains were then shaped into the figure of a person, and 1 baht and 5 baht coins were placed all over his remains along with flower petals. Monks carried out another ceremony and then his remains were placed into a linen cloth to be taken home and placed on the family shrine.

That evening, there was more drinking and eating and a lum-sing show at the home. Spirit houses were sculpted out of banana trees and placed on display outside the home along with photos of my wife's mother and father on each spirit house. Numerous gifts for the temple were also on display along side the spirit houses that in turn were all connected to my father-in-laws remains via a long piece of string.

The following morning, monks at the home carried out one final ceremony, before taking his remains to the Mekong River. The family had rented a long tail boat so that we could take his remains to be scattered in the Mekong. We carried out a small ceremony on the banks of the river before boarding the boat and then sailed up river to the very sacred site of the old and ancient "Wat Pho Chai". The tip of this site still sticks out of the top of the river at certain times of the year, and was visible on this day.

We all took a handful of his remains and scattered them in the river, before putting the remainder of his ashes overboard. This was his final wish.

I miss my father-in-law, and although it was a very tiring and stressful time, the whole process was something I was very proud to have been involved with. 7 days of events meant so much more and had so much more meaning.

Here in the UK, we have a service, dig a hole, put you in it, then say goodbye.

I posted this here to give people a small insight into the funeral process, as I'm sure that if you haven't already been involved, you surely will be one day. I know that everyone's experiences will differ to that of mine, depending on the location, wealth of the family and religious beliefs.

My father-in-law was by no means a rich man nor was he a poor man. The fact that he had such an ornate air-chilled coffin, and that the 1^st Minister and ex 1^st minister for Nongkhai were both present at his cremation, made me realize he was a well respected man.

Thanks for reading guys, especially if you made it to the end and are still awake.

Guemlum

[yorkman]

Excellent Report

I have over time been to a few, fortunately not yet a close family member.

One thing I would warn about for those who have not been to one, and I do not want to be too graphic here, is that those where the high tech cremation facilities cannot be paid for, or where it is held at a local wat without the facilities, the open air fire method is still used, and it can be less than pleasant. I only add this for a "be prepared".

In order to facilitate the cremation, a few litres of (what looks like) diesel is added inside the coffin and on the pyre. One of the relatives, normally the spouse if they are still alive, sets the whole thing ablaze.

The combustion process is not very efficient , the smoke of course gets carried away, within 10 minutes or so the coffin has burnt away, and, well you can imagine.......

That is an excellent description of a North Issan funeral IMHO. Thanks for the effort.

[ronthompson]

Thanks for a great report.

Well worth reading

[Naam]

my respect Guemlum!

[Pink Mist]

Thank you for that concise and meaningfull story, cheers Mate

[nongfrank]

Thanks for your writing but ....

have anybody any clou what to do when his partner pass away. Where you have to go who must be informed what have to be prepared what are all the steps; or you count on your family.

In Europe I know but here ??

Maybe there is someone who knows and can write it down.

Thanks Frank

[yorkman]

Thanks for your writing but ....

have anybody any clou what to do when his partner pass away. Where you have to go who must be informed what have to be prepared what are all the steps; or you count on your family.

In Europe I know but here ??

Maybe there is someone who knows and can write it down.

Thanks Frank

I am not sure what you mean. Are you worried about when your Thai partner dies?

It is registered at the Amphur office the same as a marriage or birth

[redwooddrive]

Great report. I have been through similar experiences in Buri Ram. They aren't generally the sad experience one would think they are. I did have one kind of amusing experience at funeral of a distant 2nd cousin at a nearby Wat. My wife hadn't even seen the person who died in the last eight years, but there is the old sense of family obligation.

While we were sitting in the courtyard of the Wat waiting for the cremation to start, the bereaved family started passing out 'party favors'. They had one large 2 liter sized opaque coke bottle out of which they were pouring and apportioning four Tylenol pills each to a small baggy. The baggies were then passed down the rows where we were sitting, one per guest attending. The baggies were shortly followed by small baskets, in which people put small 10-20-50 baht donations in, to offset their outlay so to speak.

As we were leaving, we were with another thai-farang couple. The family members stopped us and gave each of the four of us another small baggy with 4 tylenol pills in them and made some more small talk. After we left my wife told me that was a subtle hint on their part that the family hadn't covered their expenses. My wife and the other wife each pulled out another another 500 baht for the family and we went on our way.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Very concise and meaningful Guemlum. A much appreciated 'Thai' contribution to this forum. Thank you and well done.

[aintravingr8]

Great post Guemlum.

Thanks for sharing with all of us your experience and providing a small insight into the funeral process of northern Issan.

Much appreciated and much respect to you.

Thank you again.

Edited May 6, 2008 by aintravingr8

[micksterbs]

Many thanks for sharing that with us, Guemlum. I'd often wondered what the occasion entailed here and now, thanks to your well-written and informative post, I'm a lot wiser.

I have the nasty feeling that my wife's grandfather is not long for this world so your post is, for me, timely. I'll be interested to see if there are any differences between your part of Issan and mine.

Once again, thanks.

[roygsd]

For those who might be interested, and have never taken part in such an event, I thought I would post my recent experiences in taking part in my father-in-laws funeral. Forgive me for not being able to name each ceremony (in Thai) that took place, so I'll try to describe what happened as best as possible. This is a rather long post.

My wife and I had only got married 3 weeks prior, and were not sure if he'd even make it to the wedding. We believe it was what kept him going, and were extremely happy that he witnessed the event.

I could see it coming, and 2 days before I was due to return to the UK decided to extend my stay by 2 weeks, change my flight, and run across the friendship bridge to extend my visa.

Probably one of the best decisions I made, as 3 days later my father-in-law passed away. I could never have lived with the guilt of returning home, only to be called by my wife a few days later with the news he had died. His final day was a painful day. We were all by his side as he left this world.

Once the initial shock of him dying and the tears were over, which all in all lasted about 15 minutes; a train of events was to unfold which lasted 7 days.

My wife, her brothers and sisters carried his body into the bathroom where they disrobed him, washed his body from head to foot, and dressed him. They also removed the catheter, which had been administered by the local hospital.

Whilst this was taking place, I had jumped into the back of the family pickup with several male family members and driven to the local temple where we picked up an enormous air-conditioned coffin inlayed with mother of pearl. It took 12 of us to carry to coffin onto the pickup. Along with the coffin, came other items from the temple such as carpets, tables, statues and various items, which would be used by the monks for the next 7 days.

Upon our return, we lay his body in a wooden box, which was then put inside the huge air-chilled coffin. The coffin now remains in the home until the day of the cremation.

The next few hours were a bit of a blur, but the events, which were about to unfold, were carried out with military precision and had been planned out for a while prior to his death.

The following seven days involved people coming and going, eating and drinking for 24 hrs a day, monks visiting the home every night to carry out various ceremonies, and very little sleep for all involved.

My wife once showed me some photos from her mother's funeral, and I'd noticed from these photos that it was a requirement, though not necessary, that the immediate male members of the family became a monk on the day of the cremation.

I had already made the decision of becoming a monk for the day, without anyone even asking me if I wanted to do so. It was as far as I'm concerned the final show of respect that I could give to my father-in-law. I did this for no one else, not even my wife and purely for him. This decision was a shock and surprise to the family, but one, which was welcomed with open arms. I don't do anything in life simply to earn respect as a result of ones actions, but this earned me huge respect within the family and local community, but something I was not looking for.

You see, I loved my father-in-law and my wife's family. Although they are from Isaan they are not the type of family that have been tarnished with the same brush that a lot of family's are tarnished with, especially if a member is married to a farrang. We all have the same level of respect for each other.

The Cremation

11 of us had decided to be monks for the day. This involved a trip to the barbers where we all in turn had our heads and eyebrows shaved off. We were then taken to the temple where we took part in a small ceremony and given our monks robes. All jewellery was to be removed, as were any under garments. We went commando. I also had to learn some Thai prayers that had to be repeated 3 times upon receiving my robes.

We were now monks and were treated with the same respect that any monk would be treated with. I was not allowed to refer to my wife as "Tilak" or by any other pet name, and was to simply call her by her given name. If I needed anything from her, she was to put it on the floor in front of me, and not to give it to me directly. This seemed a little uncomfortable for a while, but I soon got used to it.

Once again we (monks only) piled into the back of a pickup whilst family and friends removed the coffin from the home and loaded it onto the back of a small flat bed lorry. The lorry was at the back of the procession, in the middle were friends and family, and leading was the pickup full of monks. We all held in our hands a long piece of string which in turn was held by every person in between the two vehicles and which was tied to the coffin itself. Everyone present had to be in contact with the coffin via the piece of string.

The procession left the house with one vehicle up ahead throwing popcorn onto the road in front of the procession and letting of firecrackers at the same time. I'm not quite sure what the meaning of the popcorn throwing was about, but the firecrackers were to ward off evil spirits.

Upon arriving at the temple, we all walked in procession 3 times around the oven, which was to cremate my father-in-law. To my surprise, this was not some type of medieval fire but a state of the art, oven that was computer controlled. You could even watch the interior via a heat sensitive TV.

After about 2 hours of talks and further ceremonies and presentations, it was time for the cremation. After about 500 of the guests had left, only the immediate family were left for the actual cremation. The wooden box was removed from the air-chilled coffin and lowered onto some trestles where the lid was removed, and the video camera turned off. The oldest son then lent over his body and removed a small cloth hiding his face, with his teeth. This cannot be removed by your hands and has to be done by your teeth. After the initial shock of seeing a 7-day-old dead and frozen body we all took it in turns to pour coconut oil over his face and body. A few prayers were said and then he was placed inside the oven. We were then ushered around the other side where we could view the cremation on a heat sensitive TV up until the point where the coffin filled up with smoke and could see no more.

It took 9 hours for the body to be fully cremated. We returned the following morning where his remains had been placed on a small table. Along side his remains were several sets of chopsticks and a small bowl. Each family member using chopsticks proceeded to sift through his remains to see if they could find any teeth as a keepsake. Anything found was placed into the small bowl. His remains were then shaped into the figure of a person, and 1 baht and 5 baht coins were placed all over his remains along with flower petals. Monks carried out another ceremony and then his remains were placed into a linen cloth to be taken home and placed on the family shrine.

That evening, there was more drinking and eating and a lum-sing show at the home. Spirit houses were sculpted out of banana trees and placed on display outside the home along with photos of my wife's mother and father on each spirit house. Numerous gifts for the temple were also on display along side the spirit houses that in turn were all connected to my father-in-laws remains via a long piece of string.

The following morning, monks at the home carried out one final ceremony, before taking his remains to the Mekong River. The family had rented a long tail boat so that we could take his remains to be scattered in the Mekong. We carried out a small ceremony on the banks of the river before boarding the boat and then sailed up river to the very sacred site of the old and ancient "Wat Pho Chai". The tip of this site still sticks out of the top of the river at certain times of the year, and was visible on this day.

We all took a handful of his remains and scattered them in the river, before putting the remainder of his ashes overboard. This was his final wish.

I miss my father-in-law, and although it was a very tiring and stressful time, the whole process was something I was very proud to have been involved with. 7 days of events meant so much more and had so much more meaning.

Here in the UK, we have a service, dig a hole, put you in it, then say goodbye.

I posted this here to give people a small insight into the funeral process, as I'm sure that if you haven't already been involved, you surely will be one day. I know that everyone's experiences will differ to that of mine, depending on the location, wealth of the family and religious beliefs.

My father-in-law was by no means a rich man nor was he a poor man. The fact that he had such an ornate air-chilled coffin, and that the 1^st Minister and ex 1^st minister for Nongkhai were both present at his cremation, made me realize he was a well respected man.

Thanks for reading guys, especially if you made it to the end and are still awake.

Guemlum

Very interesting to hear the whole proccedings as Iwent to my wife's "grandpa"s (actually a geat uncle) funeral in Kumphawhaphi area of Issan, aparently he became a monk as a very young boy and remained so until he passed away around the age of 73 as I recall, he was obviously an important character.

It was my first experience of a thai funeral and I was stonished to learn that they had kept his body for over six months in order that people from temples he had been "working" over his life time could be contacted and stories were obtained and made into a book of his life which was sent to the top monk (as it was discribed to me) in Bkk who read and aproved its contents without which no date for the funeral could be arranged.

On my arrival I was astonishd to see so many peole there and even more astonished to see fairground rides and stalls as well! I dont know if tht was co incidence or what bu it seemed to fit in with the mood of those attending the ceremony.

Several bouts of prayer, with breaks for food and drink, a huge amount of what seemed to be VIPs all dressed in what seemed like american white naval uniform ( officer and a gentleman type) and 12 of whom made ther indevidual speaches for what seemed to be a competition between them to last the longest, which I guess was over 10 mins for the longest.

Some time later a Police car with lights flashing arrived and this contained a box with a live fire that apparently had been lt by the chief monk in Bkk anddriven at speed to Isssan and had to be kept alight until late at night when the cremation took place.

We left around 9pm anfd the fire was lit around 10pm I understand, looking back I am not sure they wanted a farang to witness the pyre bing burnt, perhaps they were trying to be polite?

THe following day my mother in law arrived with a gold locket and chain which contained the remains of a tooth from the old chap for my wife. Clearly with her trip over seas this item is considered very precious and in fact my wife has been asked by two of her elder relatives for this tooth but she isnt parting with it.

Incidentally we have a copy of my wifes "grandpa's" book of life at home but ot my shame I have yet to learn to read thai, no disrespect to my wife or any other thai but they do have a habit of omitting information as they see fit rather than givng the full details inmy experience.

I havent had much experience with western funerals either but with my limited experience I know that the thai one was far more acceptable to me.

Dont pretend to understand exactly what was going on all the time but as the only farang amongst maybe 1500 I did feel a bit

overwhelmed by the whole thing.

The OP has refreshed my memory a little for which I am grateful as i was a day I shall never forget.

Roygsd

[Issangeorge]

My Mother-in-law passed away last year, for some reason, I can't really explain it, I took it very hard, even harder than when my own mother died. I wanted to be a monk and asked my wife about it, the family all got a good laugh and said only the Grand sons became monks. Oh one thing that I am sure happened at the previously posted funereals, except maybe the monk's, is any Thai funeral I have been at there are mny card and gambling games also. Issangeorge

[MISTERBONK]

I havent had much experience with western funerals either but with my limited experience I know that the thai one was far more acceptable to me.

I apologise for probably being controversial, but this is an open forum, and this is my view on things.

What I dislike about Thai funerals, and I have seen many during my years in Isaan is the amount of money that suddenly appears, to be spent on beer, whisky, food and entertainment which sometimes includes live music, scantily clad female singers, fairground rides and likhae shows. All too often the person being cremated has lived a life of poverty, and I frequently have seen situations when the deceased during his/her last weeks was unable to visit a doctor or hospital because there was not enough money available to pay for a taxi . Yet suddenly tens of thousands of baht appear, with each family trying to provide more of everything than at the last funeral.

To my mind dead is dead! The deceased has no knowledge of the entertainment being provided, but if he/she were aware would probably have wished for the occasional chicken or half kilo of pork during his/her lifetime instead.

But even with the cremation, all is not over. Still to come at some time after 100 days (often years later) is the interrment of the ashes in the wat, and this means yet another expensive party, more drink and entertainment too.

And as for the gambling that takes place each night (all night) as soon as the Monks have left, I will make no additional comment.

In short Thai funerals disgust me. I look for respect for a deceased person but here there seemingly is none.

Edited May 8, 2008 by MISTERBONK

[Issangeorge]

Misterbonk, I have been spending a fair amount of time in Thailand for the past 23 years, I have been living in Isaan for 5 years now, in all that time the only funeral I have seen that is like the one you described is one that was for a very popular monk who died and it was a big funereal for him with people coming from all over the country. As for the simple village funeral, they have been that simple, in most cases the people have been so poor that they were burned the next day and only in a simple wood box, no elaborate coffin, in one case there was only a cloth type tent over them. I have never seen a huge amount of booze been dispensed or any other extravagancies. One thing you have to remember is some of these people have been insured and as soon as they die the families get the insurance and some use this to have perhaps a nicer funeral than what one might expect they could afford. As far as the card playing I don't like that either. Issangeorge

[Thaddeus]

Sorry George, but I have witnessed more than a couple of the events that Misterbonk describes.

[MISTERBONK]

It was the village funeral I was specifically referring to, and as George says most of the people are poor. That is precisely the point I am making. Most of the deceased have led a very frugal life, enjoying very few luxuries, and often going without even the basics. Yet when it comes time to cremate them, insurance or not, in almost every case in my 7 years in Isaan, large amounts of money suddenly appear, and food, alcohol, merrymaking and card playing are the order of the day - and night! Insurance money does not usually turn up until some time later.

At my mother in laws funeral some years ago, a tape was played, of 2 local monks telling jokes and anecdotes, which had the huge crowd of scroungers (those that came every day for free food and alcohol) laughing their heads off.

Can anyone tell me how this type of behaviour shows respect for the deceased?

I believe the British funeral to be far better. It allows the family to grieve the death of a loved one in peace, without having to be licenced restauranters from within a few minutes of the death, until after the cremation. Friends, colleagues and neighbours can show their respect by attending the funeral service.

[Issangeorge]

I can only coment on what I have seen. Yes there is lots of food and soft drinks and sometimes (maybe most) laokhao and beer, but the booze seems to be dispenced spareinly. Most cremations seem to be the day after the person dies so the total amount is not all that much and all the people in the village help out. I know my wife is constanly buying food and softdrinks to donate for funerals. Just last week a man who was very poor died and my wife took over a 30kg sack of rice because they had very little, we still have lots over from last years crop. The only two to three day funerals I have seen are when someone who is relativly rich dies. I have never seen a concert or fair, except for at the end of March or early April in my village where a lot of the people who had relatives die get together and have their Tamboon ( or what ever they call the party that celabrates the persons death after 100 days or later). There is then sometimes (not every year) a concert or/and fair, but it is sponsored by the whole village. Other than the gambling I rather like the way the Thai Funeral is, you get together with old friends and family that come from all over the country and you have a good time to celebrate the life of the person who died, what's wrong with that? I have always said, even before I ever came to Thailand I want there to be a big party when I die. In Thailand when someoneen dies the village and the local people help out with the funeral costs, you can't say that for the west. As far as insurance when my mother-in-law died my wife collected the insurance the next day along with a big wreath they threw in, also many village funds contribut 10,000 baht to participating members when one dies. Issangeorge

[lifeisrandom]

thanks for sharing.

Edited October 15, 2008 by lifeisrandom

[Dave the Dude]

Can anyone tell me how this type of behaviour shows respect for the deceased?

I believe the British funeral to be far better. It allows the family to grieve the death of a loved one in peace, without having to be licenced restauranters from within a few minutes of the death, until after the cremation. Friends, colleagues and neighbours can show their respect by attending the funeral service.

I accept your point of view but disagree. I believe there are 'scrounger' that surface at funerals in EVERY country, but I have never experienced the Drunken-ness,Fighting,Verbal abuse and general Damage as seen between families in the UK and thats assuming ANYONE turns up. This is only my personal experience I am sorry to say BTW.

Dave

[prakhonchai nick]

Can anyone tell me how this type of behaviour shows respect for the deceased?

.

I accept your point of view but disagree. I believe there are 'scrounger' that surface at funerals in EVERY country, but I have never experienced the Drunken-ness,Fighting,Verbal abuse and general Damage as seen between families in the UK and thats assuming ANYONE turns up. This is only my personal experience I am sorry to say BTW.

Dave

I have witnessed much of what Misterbonk described in my village, although I am pleased to say that overnight gambling seems to have largely abated. The binge drinking however has not!

I have attended a few funerals in the UK, and have never witnessed anything as described by Dave the Dude. They are always very sombre affairs, with friends and work colleagues disappearing after the funeral, and the family retreating to one of their homes for tea and cakes.

I take no part in the spectacle of eating drinking and merrymaking that accompanies a Thai death, but if it is someone known to me, I pay my final respects as I would have done in the UK, by attending the cremation at the Wat.

[Gary A]

I can't say I understand it either, BUT, this is the custom and I accept it as it is. As a side note, people in our village and in this area pay into a fund to pay for their funerals. Friends and neighbors help out cooking and serving food. Who is to say whose custom is better.

[coventry]

It was the village funeral I was specifically referring to, and as George says most of the people are poor. That is precisely the point I am making. Most of the deceased have led a very frugal life, enjoying very few luxuries, and often going without even the basics. Yet when it comes time to cremate them, insurance or not, in almost every case in my 7 years in Isaan, large amounts of money suddenly appear, and food, alcohol, merrymaking and card playing are the order of the day - and night! Insurance money does not usually turn up until some time later.

At my mother in laws funeral some years ago, a tape was played, of 2 local monks telling jokes and anecdotes, which had the huge crowd of scroungers (those that came every day for free food and alcohol) laughing their heads off.

Can anyone tell me how this type of behaviour shows respect for the deceased?

I believe the British funeral to be far better.

I take it you've never been to an Irish persons funeral as all the above is undertaken. No different here as back home. You go to the wrong funerals.

[coventry]

It was the village funeral I was specifically referring to, and as George says most of the people are poor. That is precisely the point I am making. Most of the deceased have led a very frugal life, enjoying very few luxuries, and often going without even the basics. Yet when it comes time to cremate them, insurance or not, in almost every case in my 7 years in Isaan, large amounts of money suddenly appear, and food, alcohol, merrymaking and card playing are the order of the day - and night! Insurance money does not usually turn up until some time later.

At my mother in laws funeral some years ago, a tape was played, of 2 local monks telling jokes and anecdotes, which had the huge crowd of scroungers (those that came every day for free food and alcohol) laughing their heads off.

Can anyone tell me how this type of behaviour shows respect for the deceased?

I believe the British funeral to be far better. It allows the family to grieve the death of a loved one in peace, without having to be licenced restauranters from within a few minutes of the death, until after the cremation. Friends, colleagues and neighbours can show their respect by attending the funeral service.

The reason why the money suddenly appears is because they borrow on what they expect to receive at a later date. Even if they don't they will take out loans. I've never seen gambling at a Thai funeral and I never expect to see it. How can you gamble with money you haven't got ? This is because even in the rural areas police will not tolerate it. Edited October 16, 2008 by coventry

[prakhonchai nick]

The reason why the money suddenly appears is because they borrow on what they expect to receive at a later date. Even if they don't they will take out loans. I've never seen gambling at a Thai funeral and I never expect to see it. How can you gamble with money you haven't got ? This is because even in the rural areas police will not tolerate it.

Mister Bonk referred to gambling. I have witnessed it many times, and it is an unwritten rule in this area (South of Buriram) that the police permit it when someone dies. I hope for your sake that you never witness it. It is in my opinion also totally disrepectful to both the deceased and the family. Yes they do receive money later, usually donations from the friends and neighbours, but most families overspend. And then find themselves with even more debt than before

As for gambling with money you haven't got, this occurs every day in my area. Whilst gambling at funerals is open, each day dozens of locals play behind closed doors, borrowing money (often thousands or even more) hoping to win it back. When they lose, gold,and even land changes hands. Most have borrowed so much money that nobody will lend them anymore.

[coventry]

Mister Bonk referred to gambling. I have witnessed it many times, and it is an unwritten rule in this area (South of Buriram) that the police permit it when someone dies. I hope for your sake that you never witness it. It is in my opinion also totally disrepectful to both the deceased and the family. Yes they do receive money later, usually donations from the friends and neighbours, but most families overspend. And then find themselves with even more debt than before

As for gambling with money you haven't got, this occurs every day in my area. Whilst gambling at funerals is open, each day dozens of locals play behind closed doors, borrowing money (often thousands or even more) hoping to win it back. When they lose, gold,and even land changes hands. Most have borrowed so much money that nobody will lend them anymore.

I have never witnessed gambling at a funeral but I stand corrected by my wife. I apologise. It is tolerated but only because if it wasn't accepted, then people would leave the party early, resulting in face loss for the deceaseds family. People actually use a funeral to by pass the gambling laws. Nothing to do with the poor sod in the ice box from what I'm told.

[storminnorman]

I've been to a few burnings in my time. Only thing I object to is the recent law that prohibits alcohol in temple precincts. Thai funerals are a time for getting pissed much the same as in the UK. You contribute to the beer kitty as much as you can or wish to afford, unlike the UK.

Some Posters in this thread have a lot to learn. Mainly that Thais are no so different from we farangs.

Edited October 16, 2008 by storminnorman

[philstone]

I've been to a few burnings in my time. Only thing I object to is the recent law that prohibits alcohol in temple precincts. Thai funerals are a time for getting pissed much the same as in the UK. You contribute to the beer kitty as much as you can or wish to afford, unlike the UK.

Some Posters in this thread have a lot to learn. Mainly that Thais are no so different from we farangs.

Thailand is really the best place on this world for the poor Big funerals Big Work Big Wedding lots of smoking and drinking and gambling seconds and even third minor wifes. Since where they live they don't have jobs they can not find work. But they have lots of money to spend. What great great.

[rockyysdt]

I have never witnessed gambling at a funeral but I stand corrected by my wife. I apologise. It is tolerated but only because if it wasn't accepted, then people would leave the party early, resulting in face loss for the deceaseds family. People actually use a funeral to by pass the gambling laws. Nothing to do with the poor sod in the ice box from what I'm told.

It's sad to read that some people need to be enticed to hang around to help wardi off bad spirits during the mourning period by being allowed to gamble.

If there's any loss of face to occur it's for the gamblers and those who would leave the mourning party early.

I know customs have been developed over centuries but I think some people need to have their arse (ass) kicked to .

Their self awareness of what it means to be a decent human being seems to be lacking.

Edited October 19, 2008 by rockyysdt

[abdulrahman]

Buddhism has a different view of life and death as the church of england.

Personally, I like the Thai way better.And I remember the old customs in my own country,with a lot of kanom for the children,a lot of alcohol for the men,a lot of prayers for the women(a lot of work for them too,cooking for the entire village and guests from other places),Card playing too,after the monks went away,but no dices as in Thailand.

Why has a funeral to be a sour event with the relatives bitching about money?

For myself,when and IF happens,I'll hope to have a big party,merry people that are so drunk that they forget my wrongdoings and remember only my,few,good traits.A perfect Isaan cremation.