Australian Aged Pension

[Scott]

Inflammatory, troll posts and replies reported and removed.  Keep it civil and on topic or face a suspension.  

 

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, scorecard said:

Strange, ince you're such an expert, that you don't know there's always some confusion because 'Certificate of Residence' has two qute different meanings in Thailand:

 

1. Cerificate of Residence. Meaning a simple letter stating your residential address, nothing more. Type of visa not mentioned. You've already alluded to this item.

 

2. Certificate of Residence. Please see the attachment to this post below. Note that the cover of the 'Certificate of Residence' book mentions 'see page 21', proving that it's a book.

 

Page 1 has a photo of the foreigner who has passed the requirements and now holds a 'Certificate of Residence'. Pages, 2, 3, 4, 5 show the full details of the foreigner, dates etc., etc., that the 'Certificate od Residence' was granted/issued etc.  In my case it was issued about 26 years ago. 

 

When the holder departs and returns to Thailand this book must be presented to the passport officer along with the passport of that foreigner. The passport officer stamps both books with the same departure/arrrival stamps. Eventually all the pages in the 'certificate of Residence' book are filled. 

 

When this happens the foreigner takes the full 'Certificate of Residence book', passport etc., to an immigration office where they automatically replace the book with a new one. Replacing book is mechanical, it doesn't require any form of re-approval, or interview etc. It's approved for life.

 

In my case my current 'Certificate of Residence' book is about half full.

 

But you say; what about "Permanent Resident/ Permanent Residence'?

 

Most foreingers know it's the same thing. Most Immigration officers will refer to the whole thing as both 'Certificate of Residence' and 'Permanent Resident'.

 

Most/maybe all the law firms/ agents etc., who offer help/advice in this subject area use both terms but mostly use the term 'Permanent Resident'. No doubt because that nomenclature is possibly more atttractve / more alluring to potential clients.

 

Also true of course there's many foreigners in LOS long-term who have looked at applying for 'PR' but decided there's not enough benefits. I don't disagree that there's not many specific benefits except that:

• - There's no need to re-apply for a new one year visa such as with the so called Retirement Visa (and ohe visas), meaning that the holder has to prepare a lot of documents each year (mostly very mechanical).
• - There's no need to hold 800,00Baht or whatever in a bank account and get bank statements etc., on the day of applying for the re-issue etc.
• - There's no need to keep 800,000BaHt or whatever mostly 'locked' in a bank account.
• - There's no chance that suddenly the visa requirements change and make it difficult/very difficult to gain the re-issue, and this can and does happen with many categories of Thai visas.

For me the benefit is that I have pretty much have a guarantee that visas issues will never cause me to be separated from my wonderful Thai family. The book can also sometimes be of benefit when dealing with other gov't agencies, banks etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What rights does this little book give you in Thailand?

 

What does it allow you to do that a 30 day visa exemption stamp tourist can't do?  

 

It's nothing like Permanent Residency in a western country, and to suggest that it is comparable is laughable. 

 

On a side note, how can you argue you are a resident of Australia for taxation purposes, whilst holding this little book that says you are a resident of Thailand? 

Edited March 12, 2023 by KhunHeineken

[Lacessit]

21 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I kept an eye on the robodebt fiasco.  The suicides it caused were particularly tragic.

 

Didn't some members of this forum suggest "the government would never go after pensioners" yet, robodebt happened. 

I am not aware of any age pensioner, dependent on that alone, who fronted the Royal Commission to describe their travails under Robodebt. The system was based on a faulty income averaging algorithm which targeted people on income SUPPORT, who were earning income on a part-time or casual basis. Apparently younger people on Jobseeker were particularly vulnerable to the Liberal dole bludging ideology, and returned the favor at the last election.

 

Age pensioners who are not working were never in the Robodebt crosshairs.

IMO you are confusing income support with a pension.

Income support is intended to assist people who would otherwise be destitute, as part of a social contract. The age pension is an entitlement paid to people who have shelled out taxes all their working lives, and get part of those taxes returned in money which has depreciated in purchasing power. The Brits take that one step further by freezing pensions of anyone deemed to be residing overseas, no cost of living indexation.

 

Robodebt was war on the vulnerable and the young, not even Morrison was stupid enough to go after the seniors.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Lacessit

[giddyup]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am not aware of any age pensioner, dependent on that alone, who fronted the Royal Commission to describe their travails under Robodebt. The system was based on a faulty income averaging algorithm which targeted people on income SUPPORT, who were earning income on a part-time or casual basis. Apparently younger people on Jobseeker were particularly vulnerable to the Liberal dole bludging ideology, and returned the favor at the last election.

 

Age pensioners who are not working were never in the Robodebt crosshairs.

IMO you are confusing income support with a pension.

Income support is intended to assist people who would otherwise be destitute, as part of a social contract. The age pension is an entitlement paid to people who have shelled out taxes all their working lives, and get part of those taxes returned in money which has depreciated in purchasing power. The Brits take that one step further by freezing pensions of anyone deemed to be residing overseas, no cost of living indexation.

 

Robodebt was war on the vulnerable and the young, not even Morrison was stupid enough to go after the seniors.

One correction. You are still eligible for an aged pension even if you have never worked a day in your life, ie not paid any taxes.

[Olmate]

54 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am not aware of any age pensioner, dependent on that alone, who fronted the Royal Commission to describe their travails under Robodebt. The system was based on a faulty income averaging algorithm which targeted people on income SUPPORT, who were earning income on a part-time or casual basis. Apparently younger people on Jobseeker were particularly vulnerable to the Liberal dole bludging ideology, and returned the favor at the last election.

 

Age pensioners who are not working were never in the Robodebt crosshairs.

IMO you are confusing income support with a pension.

Income support is intended to assist people who would otherwise be destitute, as part of a social contract. The age pension is an entitlement paid to people who have shelled out taxes all their working lives, and get part of those taxes returned in money which has depreciated in purchasing power. The Brits take that one step further by freezing pensions of anyone deemed to be residing overseas, no cost of living indexation.

 

Robodebt was war on the vulnerable and the young, not even Morrison was stupid enough to go after the seniors.

You probably didn,t follow the hearings then and witness firstly the incompetance and then the buck passing of both the senior public servants, several cabinet ministers and 2 PM,s. Point being the same idiots no doubt were responsible for KH, s "doomsday residency tax proposal" 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Olmate

[Artisi]

52 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am not aware of any age pensioner, dependent on that alone, who fronted the Royal Commission to describe their travails under Robodebt. The system was based on a faulty income averaging algorithm which targeted people on income SUPPORT, who were earning income on a part-time or casual basis. Apparently younger people on Jobseeker were particularly vulnerable to the Liberal dole bludging ideology, and returned the favor at the last election.

 

Age pensioners who are not working were never in the Robodebt crosshairs.

IMO you are confusing income support with a pension.

Income support is intended to assist people who would otherwise be destitute, as part of a social contract. The age pension is an entitlement paid to people who have shelled out taxes all their working lives, and get part of those taxes returned in money which has depreciated in purchasing power. The Brits take that one step further by freezing pensions of anyone deemed to be residing overseas, no cost of living indexation.

 

Robodebt was war on the vulnerable and the young, not even Morrison was stupid enough to go after the seniors.

The aged pension is only paid to those who meet certain financial parameters, ie, assets (excluding your home) but car, investments, money in the bank, income from any source etc., so if "well - off" you might get B ugger-all. 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

One correction. You are still eligible for an aged pension even if you have never worked a day in your life, ie not paid any taxes.

True. Having said that, I would suggest that cohort of people is a small minority, although it may get larger with the creeping casualization of work.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

The aged pension is only paid to those who meet certain financial parameters, ie, assets (excluding your home) but car, investments, money in the bank, income from any source etc., so if "well - off" you might get B ugger-all. 

A single person who rents can have just over half a million in assets, and still get the full age pension. Not much in Australia, more than enough in Thailand.

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Olmate said:

You probably didn,t follow the hearings then and witness firstly the incompetance and then the buck passing of both the senior public servants, several cabinet ministers and 2 PM,s. Point being the same idiots no doubt were responsible for KH, s "doomsday residency tax proposal" 

I have been following the Robodebt saga reasonably closely. IMO some of the people involved should be getting jail time, not that there is any hope of that.

[giddyup]

14 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

True. Having said that, I would suggest that cohort of people is a small minority, although it may get larger with the creeping casualization of work.

And yet, myself having worked and paid taxes all my life, is penalised by having my OAP reduced by 50% because I receive a Comsuper pension from my employment. In fact, I'm only $600 a month better off than someone who never paid a cent in taxes. Fair?

[LosLobo]

28 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

A single person who rents can have just over half a million in assets, and still get the full age pension. Not much in Australia, more than enough in Thailand.

 

The rate of full pension is by a full asset test then an income test of financial assets. Whatever is the smallest is what you get.

 

Financial assets are deemed.

 

I would suggest if your assets are mainly financial, super, bank etc you may not get full pension with 500k.

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by LosLobo

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, giddyup said:

And yet, myself having worked and paid taxes all my life, is penalised by having my OAP reduced by 50% because I receive a Comsuper pension from my employment. In fact, I'm only $600 a month better off than someone who never paid a cent in taxes. Fair?

Centrelink assesses either assets or income, your Comsuper probably is counted as income.

I'm not getting into a debate on what is fair, I am content with my part pension. It would not even be needed if ASIC and the ACCC had not been asleep at the wheel before and during the GFC, I would be self-funding.

What's unfair? In my book, lying incompetent toads such as Tudge, Morrison and Robert getting fat parliamentary pensions after wrecking the lives of so many people.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, LosLobo said:

The rate of full pension is by an full asset test then an income test of financial assets. Whatever is the smallest is what you get.

 

Financial assets are deemed.

 

I would suggest if your assets are mainly financial, super, bank etc you may not get full pension with 500k.

Agree, my pension is assessed on deemed income.

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

And yet, myself having worked and paid taxes all my life, is penalised by having my OAP reduced by 50% because I receive a Comsuper pension from my employment. In fact, I'm only $600 a month better off than someone who never paid a cent in taxes. Fair?

No,

just as I have paid taxes etc all my working life, saved where I could, didn't blow my earning on booze, fast cars etc., but now because my wife works my pension is being reduced to nearly zero - I would have been better off blowing it all enjoying myself rather than looking to the future - is that fair?

[giddyup]

16 minutes ago, Artisi said:

No,

just as I have paid taxes etc all my working life, saved where I could, didn't blow my earning on booze, fast cars etc., but now because my wife works my pension is being reduced to nearly zero - I would have been better off blowing it all enjoying myself rather than looking to the future - is that fair?

That's why people get divorced and have separate bedrooms, just so they can get what they rightly deserve.

[LosLobo]

14 minutes ago, giddyup said:

That's why people get divorced and have separate bedrooms, just so they can get what they rightly deserve.

Yet, I divorced mine and had separate bedrooms coz she was a lazy b*tch.

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/12/2023 at 5:31 AM, Olmate said:

Point being the same idiots no doubt were responsible for KH, s "doomsday residency tax proposal" 

Well said.

 

They couldn't care less if the small fish are caught in the net for the big fish.

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/12/2023 at 7:46 AM, Lacessit said:

True. Having said that, I would suggest that cohort of people is a small minority, although it may get larger with the creeping casualization of work.

Casuals pay tax.

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/12/2023 at 8:05 AM, giddyup said:

And yet, myself having worked and paid taxes all my life, is penalised by having my OAP reduced by 50% because I receive a Comsuper pension from my employment. In fact, I'm only $600 a month better off than someone who never paid a cent in taxes. Fair?

"How good is Australia"  - Scott Morrison.  "Centrelink, living the dream."

[Olmate]

22 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

"How good is Australia"  - Scott Morrison.  "Centrelink, living the dream."

"I believe in miracles! ",,      "where the bloody hell are you?" Scott who? ????

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Casuals pay tax.

So they do. However, I was making the point with fewer full-time jobs around, it is highly like the pool of permanently unemployed people will grow, because the casuals who pay tax may be getting less than if they were on the dole.

COVID has brought about a change in attitude to work among the Millennials. Many worked from home, and found it was a lot easier than being in rush hour traffic or crowded public transport for several hours every day. They are saying to employers if I can't work from home, I am not interested in working for you.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

So they do. However, I was making the point with fewer full-time jobs around, it is highly like the pool of permanently unemployed people will grow, because the casuals who pay tax may be getting less than if they were on the dole.

COVID has brought about a change in attitude to work among the Millennials. Many worked from home, and found it was a lot easier than being in rush hour traffic or crowded public transport for several hours every day. They are saying to employers if I can't work from home, I am not interested in working for you.

Interesting points of course, however many high performance companies will say that the live interactions* / discussions* in the workplace within* and across teams* have great value, produce innovation and creativity and competitive advantage which brings higher revenues and if reduced costs can also be achieved this brings higher margins and is a winning formula.

 

In my consulting work I had contact with employers who would agree to some 'work at home' but found it took too much time and resources*** to keep that work focused, to achieve productivity targets and achieve deadlines  (and avoid delays regarding outputs being delivered late to another department*, even to customers.  

*** Which is a cost.

 

In Singapore I'm aware of companies which manufacture and market their products; in times gone bye the Mfg. Dept, and the Mkt. Dept. operated quite separately, even ignored each other** but nowadays they sit in the same room and the staff from both departs deliberately sitting alongside each other (mixed together) and sharing valuable discussions and building of strategies, including a winner - continuously building competitive advantage.   (And sharing resources, which if structured can also bring cost savings.)

 

** A hangover from centuries old military structures, where it was seen as productive to keep different army/military functions apart. Perhaps the worst example - 99% of the time the Air force operates totally alone with zero/close to zero contact with the army, then for a few minutes coordinates bombing or whatever with the army on the ground, then instantly the air force goes back to 'no contact' with other parts of the military, perhaps for years. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by scorecard

[Lacessit]

29 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Interesting points of course, however many high performance companies will say that the live interactions* / discussions* in the workplace within* and across teams* have great value, produce innovation and creativity and competitive advantage which brings higher revenues and if reduced costs can also be achieved this brings higher margins and is a winning formula.

 

In my consulting work I had contact with employers who would agree to some 'work at home' but found it took too much time and resources*** to keep that work focused, to achieve productivity targets and achieve deadlines  (and avoid delays regarding outputs being delivered late to another department*, even to customers.  

*** Which is a cost.

 

In Singapore I'm aware of companies which manufacture and market their products; in times gone bye the Mfg. Dept, and the Mkt. Dept. operated quite separately, even ignored each other** but nowadays they sit in the same room and the staff from both departs deliberately sitting alongside each other (mixed together) and sharing valuable discussions and building of strategies, including a winner - continuously building competitive advantage.   (And sharing resources, which if structured can also bring cost savings.)

 

** A hangover from centuries old military structures, where it was seen as productive to keep different army/military functions apart. Perhaps the worst example - 99% of the time the Air force operates totally alone with zero/close to zero contact with the army, then for a few minutes coordinates bombing or whatever with the army on the ground, then instantly the air force goes back to 'no contact' with other parts of the military, perhaps for years. 

Apps such as Zoom, Meet and Line were a boon during COVID. I revised my Australian will with a lawyer sitting at her home desk in Australia, from my condo in Thailand.

Horses for courses, obviously it's a bit different integrating a manufacturing division with marketing etc. Having said that, the times they are a'changing.

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/18/2023 at 4:53 AM, Lacessit said:

So they do. However, I was making the point with fewer full-time jobs around, it is highly like the pool of permanently unemployed people will grow, because the casuals who pay tax may be getting less than if they were on the dole.

COVID has brought about a change in attitude to work among the Millennials. Many worked from home, and found it was a lot easier than being in rush hour traffic or crowded public transport for several hours every day. They are saying to employers if I can't work from home, I am not interested in working for you.

The ABS classifies someone as "employed" if they work more than 1 hour a week, which is ridiculous.

 

The reason casual employment is preferred by employers is because it gets around the unfair dismissal laws.  You don't have to fire anyone, you just don't ring them and give them hours.

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/18/2023 at 5:59 AM, scorecard said:

Interesting points of course, however many high performance companies will say that the live interactions* / discussions* in the workplace within* and across teams* have great value, produce innovation and creativity and competitive advantage which brings higher revenues and if reduced costs can also be achieved this brings higher margins and is a winning formula.

 

In my consulting work I had contact with employers who would agree to some 'work at home' but found it took too much time and resources*** to keep that work focused, to achieve productivity targets and achieve deadlines  (and avoid delays regarding outputs being delivered late to another department*, even to customers.  

*** Which is a cost.

 

In Singapore I'm aware of companies which manufacture and market their products; in times gone bye the Mfg. Dept, and the Mkt. Dept. operated quite separately, even ignored each other** but nowadays they sit in the same room and the staff from both departs deliberately sitting alongside each other (mixed together) and sharing valuable discussions and building of strategies, including a winner - continuously building competitive advantage.   (And sharing resources, which if structured can also bring cost savings.)

 

** A hangover from centuries old military structures, where it was seen as productive to keep different army/military functions apart. Perhaps the worst example - 99% of the time the Air force operates totally alone with zero/close to zero contact with the army, then for a few minutes coordinates bombing or whatever with the army on the ground, then instantly the air force goes back to 'no contact' with other parts of the military, perhaps for years. 

Covid showed big companies that many of their staff could work from home, with little loss of production and profits.  The effect of this was the company could rent a small premises and save a lot of money.  Many companies downsized out of the Sydney CBD, so there were many vacant office blocks. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/18/2023 at 6:34 AM, Lacessit said:

Apps such as Zoom, Meet and Line were a boon during COVID. I revised my Australian will with a lawyer sitting at her home desk in Australia, from my condo in Thailand.

Horses for courses, obviously it's a bit different integrating a manufacturing division with marketing etc. Having said that, the times they are a'changing.

With the advent of 3D printers, the day will come when a business in Australia wishing to manufacture something in China will just send the details to the manufacture's 3D printer at the factory in China and then say, "I want 10,000 of these." 

 

No need to fly to China with samples, or courier them over. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/18/2023 at 12:24 AM, Olmate said:

"I believe in miracles! ",,      "where the bloody hell are you?" Scott who? ????

That's why Australia is "The Lucky Country."  Working is a lifestyle choice, not a necessity.

[LosLobo]

12 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

That's why Australia is "The Lucky Country."  Working is a lifestyle choice, not a necessity.

Definitely not lucky, as we are not, to be "blessed" with someone's presence.
 

301 pieces of unnecessary padding for a once informative forum.....and still counting.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by LosLobo

[KhunHeineken]

4 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Definitely not lucky, as we are not, to be "blessed" with someone's presence.
 

301 pieces of unnecessary padding for a once informative forum.....and still counting.

 

Troll.

 

Why don't you just put me on your ignore list if my posts are such a problem for you? 

[Will27]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

Troll.

 

Why don't you just put me on your ignore list if my posts are such a problem for you? 

Your posts are a pain in the <deleted> for most of the posters here I'd imagine.

 

You're the only one who can't see it.