I have grow real sick of these Free Tibet @&^$&^*@^$*($!!!! I keep having to encounter them and time and time again they prove rude, crazed, and in dreadlocks!! What did these people come from? Why are they here? Why does the Lama tolerate them? Why won't they just go away!!!!!!!

same as PPP in Bangkok !!

I have grow real sick of these Free Tibet @&^$&^*@^$*($!!!! I keep having to encounter them and time and time again they prove rude, crazed, and in dreadlocks!! What did these people come from? Why are they here? Why does the Lama tolerate them? Why won't they just go away!!!!!!!

hey Bop. Don't hold back, tell us what you think.

CB

Is there a solution?

Chill mon.

there are many misguided ppl in this world looking for a cause to champion

there are many misguided ppl in this world looking for a cause to champion

Yes, sadly. I am over the burst though. They are just a group that always show up in my life to cause problems, mostly when I disagree with them. The same as all the lovely Yanks who start talking about pedos and whores when they find out my wife is from Thailand.

I'm afraid you just don't understand the art of support for noble causes.

The bluddy South Africans went and freed Nelson Mandela and went democratic.

The stupid b@st@ds tore down the Berlin wall.

Burma and Aung San Suu Kyi are just so passe these days besides which the generals meditate which makes them cool.

US troops out of Iraq attracts the attention of violent undesirables and the security services.

So all the in crowd are now getting on the latest in chic bandwagons. Tibet.

Well that Dalai Lama is such a cool dude and the Tibetan flag makes a real fashion statement as headscarves.

Dig it man?

I'm afraid you just don't understand the art of support for noble causes.

The bluddy South Africans went and freed Nelson Mandela and went democratic.

The stupid b@st@ds tore down the Berlin wall.

Burma and Aung San Suu Kyi are just so passe these days besides which the generals meditate which makes them cool.

US troops out of Iraq attracts the attention of violent undesirables and the security services.

So all the in crowd are now getting on the latest in chic bandwagons. Tibet.

Well that Dalai Lama is such a cool dude and the Tibetan flag makes a real fashion statement as headscarves.

Dig it man?

First, their is a point that is still being debated, which is who owned Tibet. The PRC says it sent the PLA into Tibet to bring it back into the fold as it was a part of China through out the Qing Dynasty, same issue with Taiwan right? Tibetan government in exile says that was not the case, PRC says it was and tends to back it up with documents from the Qing. So, whose right in that point? This first point makes this issue completely different from the other cases you have cited, not as clear cut as white people invading.

The whole world knows that violence was done in Tibet, thanks to the Tibetans themselves, regardless of the source I think we can say that is the case. High points of violence have been made clear in the PLA coming to town in the 1950's and then again during the Cultural Revolution. Now, everyone says that the PRC is the cause of the violence and that they are trying to destroy Tibetan culture, right? When the Communists first showed up Tibet, yes clear as day I believe. Why? Well, look what they did to China proper when they fought for power. They viewed the monks as the rich oppressing the poor. Even the Lama himself has said that Tibet didn't have a fair economic balance. That of course does make the violence right, but they were driven by Maoist thought.

Now, Cultural Revolution the other time when violence spread across the land......the PRC's fault....or just Mao's? The Cultural Revoultion was not a government supported movement. Mao started this as a means of keeping his ideas and ego alive, because others had pushed him from real power. We have all heard about the Red Guards, right? These were not government people, but mostly college students getting carried away in the romanance of revolution. Heck they fought with each other as much as they abused 'enemies of the people". A good account of this is in the book To The Storm which talks about 'gang wars' between Red Guard groups on the campuses of Beijing Collleges. So, the PRC decides it is better to let this movement play itself out as a bunch of smaller movements rather than stepping in and having everyone turn against them. So, most of the violence done is not the government but the people themselves. This changes how the government really views Tibetan culture if most of the violence between 1965-1975 was common people of China attacking what they saw as anti-proletariat not the PRC itself attacking.

Another to consider is why out of all of China's minority groups were the Tibetans singled out for such harsh treatment as so many claim?

If the PRC really wants to see them die out why is money spent on rebuilding temples? Why are monks and nuns allowed at all? Why build a railroad into the haert of Lhasa? If Han is replacing Tibetan why allow their culture to survive at all? Why didn't the PRC just go Nazi style and start gathering them up to kill them, they have had five decades to kill off the Tibetans in Tibet, yet they are still there? Why is it that all the photos of videos people got of riots in Lhasa don't show a real crackdown? Why is a British journalist, who was there during the riots saying that the big scary Chinese crackdown never happened? Why are the only people saying how bad Tibet is, is a group of monks that were beaten and jailed over twenty years ago? Were are the new refugees? What are their stories?

I have seen too much from both sides that destroys any hope of this issue being as black and white as you suggest. Which is why I refuse to jump upon either side if the debate and I am greatly confused by those that do. It is clear that the Tibet that was is not now yet no one outside China is willing to figure out what has changed and if it is better or worse. We just think the worse and play up a slogan just cause that Lama guy seems pretty cool. I think Harrison Ford is pretty cool myself but wouldn't jump on a cause he supports just cause he supports it.

It seems to me that the oppressed most of the time have clear reasons that reason itself can't deny when they call for freedom, yet in this case it has been the PRC who has used reason more than the government in exile or it's western supporters. I am not making a judgement here on the issue itself, for I believe not all the cards are on the table and I will not say one way or the other until they are. I want more truth first, why doesn't everyone else?

The best book to read about this is Patrick French's Tibet, Tibet.

The best book to read about this is Patrick French's Tibet, Tibet.

What's his bent on it?

If memory serves, he was one of the founders of the Free Tibet Campaign in London in the mid-80s, after time spent there, whilst researching a range of subjects relating to his biographical works. His view might be poorly summarised that the Chinese communist ethos has no place within the complex cultural history that is Tibet, especial since it strives to dilute, to be polite, the traditional cultural infrastructure.

Regards

/edit, apologies wires crossed, the book aforementioned was written considerably later, after the formation of the campaign//

The best book to read about this is Patrick French's Tibet, Tibet.

What's his bent on it?

He was with the Free Tibet Campaign for a long time but came to believe the way they were doing things wasn't getting results. The book attacks the Shangrila syndrome that many Westerners suffer from with regards to Tibet and gives a balanced account of what Tibet and Tibetan Buddhism were like before the Chinese invasion. French seems like a realist to me.

it's funny that most of the Free Tibet crowd support democracy, but the rule of the Dalai Lama in Tibet was actually a Theocracy(Ruled by Religion), that's how out of touch they are with reality.

That big drug bust in the Carribean really starting to kick in eh Bopski, looking back they'll be calling this 'The Great Ganja Famine of 2008'.

No worries bro', just keep on searching and you will find peace and happiness....

That big drug bust in the Carribean really starting to kick in eh Bopski, looking back they'll be calling this 'The Great Ganja Famine of 2008'.

No worries bro', just keep on searching and you will find peace and happiness....

Isn't this post better suited for the Organized crime thread, Robski?

Somebody wants to talk to me about Tibet I ask them "when was the last time you were there ?". When the almost inevitable answer "I've never been there" comes back it usually quietens them down.

Bumped!

The bluddy South Africans went and freed Nelson Mandela

Now that reminds me of another thread I posted somewhere else,