I am wondering if anyone here can talk to me about the history of organized crime groups in Thailand. I know that the Chinese have been in Thailand in numbers for quite sometime so I assume that the Triads are working in the Kingdom. I also know that the number of Japanese have increased in Thailand over the last centuy so does this mean a stronger Yakuza influence? Also, what about the local boys? Has Thailand ever had a traditional organized crime group like Yakuza and Triads? If so, have these groups worked with for fought Triads and Yakuza? Thanks!!

I don't know thaibebop, but it is an interesting question.

From my experiences, I know some people will have you believe that Koh Phangan is a seething bed of organized crime, and that the mafia controls everything here but well, that is just not true.

Not saying there aren't criminals or bad guys (plenty of those) just that there isn't some organized criminal system running all illegal activities on the island. Pockets of influence is more the story here. I don't know, but suspect that the smaller places will be like that. The bigger places will obviously have much bigger fish. Kamnan Poh is a notorious example.

However, what I do see here is more of a patronage system. Not always done in a negative manner with negative consequences but who you know and how you are connected to them is far more important than anything else.

An example. My husband's cousin's son has moved back to the island (they moved to Chumphon years ago) and got a job with a distant relative. Now, he is a good kid, hard working and wants to learn so its not that he is in trouble or anything. Just poor. So my husband gave him some money as a "new year's present" to buy a uniform for his job. He helped him get the job and has helped him from time to time. (mainly because he's a good kid who wants to work).

Now, as the cousin grows up, he will remember this kindness and will, no doubt, feel an obligation to my husband. Not that he did it to earn an obligation (although many do) but that has occurred. So, for instance, if my husband decided to run for office some day (not that he will, neither one of us likes the idea--tad too dangerous anymore) then this cousin would obviously not only vote for my husband but encourage his relatives to do so as well. This way, obligations are created, alliances made and relationships forged.

Another example. A few years ago, we wanted to rent a building in an advantageous location in town. Several people had talked to the family that owned the building already. My husband went and talked to the adult kids and was told the family would talk about it and to come back on Sunday. So, sunday he returned and met the dad. The father looked at my husband, said "You are Keo's son, aren't you?" When he replied yes, the dad said, "You can have the building". My father-in-law had helped him out years before and the dad knew that he could now return the favor. Others had offered more money for the building but that wasn't the point.

And while my examples are all legal you can easily see how they could also be used for illegal ends. So that has been my experience of the way Thai business is done, at least on my little island.

I don't know thaibebop, but it is an interesting question.

From my experiences, I know some people will have you believe that Koh Phangan is a seething bed of organized crime, and that the mafia controls everything here but well, that is just not true.

Not saying there aren't criminals or bad guys (plenty of those) just that there isn't some organized criminal system running all illegal activities on the island. Pockets of influence is more the story here. I don't know, but suspect that the smaller places will be like that. The bigger places will obviously have much bigger fish. Kamnan Poh is a notorious example.

However, what I do see here is more of a patronage system. Not always done in a negative manner with negative consequences but who you know and how you are connected to them is far more important than anything else.

An example. My husband's cousin's son has moved back to the island (they moved to Chumphon years ago) and got a job with a distant relative. Now, he is a good kid, hard working and wants to learn so its not that he is in trouble or anything. Just poor. So my husband gave him some money as a "new year's present" to buy a uniform for his job. He helped him get the job and has helped him from time to time. (mainly because he's a good kid who wants to work).

Now, as the cousin grows up, he will remember this kindness and will, no doubt, feel an obligation to my husband. Not that he did it to earn an obligation (although many do) but that has occurred. So, for instance, if my husband decided to run for office some day (not that he will, neither one of us likes the idea--tad too dangerous anymore) then this cousin would obviously not only vote for my husband but encourage his relatives to do so as well. This way, obligations are created, alliances made and relationships forged.

Another example. A few years ago, we wanted to rent a building in an advantageous location in town. Several people had talked to the family that owned the building already. My husband went and talked to the adult kids and was told the family would talk about it and to come back on Sunday. So, sunday he returned and met the dad. The father looked at my husband, said "You are Keo's son, aren't you?" When he replied yes, the dad said, "You can have the building". My father-in-law had helped him out years before and the dad knew that he could now return the favor. Others had offered more money for the building but that wasn't the point.

And while my examples are all legal you can easily see how they could also be used for illegal ends. So that has been my experience of the way Thai business is done, at least on my little island.

Thanks for sharing sbk, that was most informative. Can't say I blame your husband for wanting to stay out of politics. I wouldn't get involved in them here in America.

I am better at explaining things by example

I am wondering if anyone here can talk to me about the history of organized crime groups in Thailand. I know that the Chinese have been in Thailand in numbers for quite sometime so I assume that the Triads are working in the Kingdom. I also know that the number of Japanese have increased in Thailand over the last centuy so does this mean a stronger Yakuza influence? Also, what about the local boys? Has Thailand ever had a traditional organized crime group like Yakuza and Triads? If so, have these groups worked with for fought Triads and Yakuza? Thanks!!

Yes - they are called the "police".

There are numerous articles written by both Thai's, foreigners and long term expats on the evolvement of what we know as the "police" in Thailand and how at the height of their power (mid to later half of last century), controlled all sorts of illegal activities.

Yes - they are called the "police".

Dam....... beat me to it.

Good book on the subject:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-gW9Z0-q_xwC

Or you can Google "chao pho".

I would say those foreign organized crime bodies you mention have very little influence in Thailnad and only exist at the pleasure of local persons of influence.

Yes - they are called the "police".

Dam....... beat me to it.

and me

I think the police here are the biggest mafia, also they milk money from ALL other mafia activity

Yip, judge, jury, executioner and fine collector all rolled into one neat little package ....... with a gun..... on duty or not.

Good book on the subject:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-gW9Z0-q_xwC

Or you can Google "chao pho".

I would say those foreign organized crime bodies you mention have very little influence in Thailnad and only exist at the pleasure of local persons of influence.

Cool! Thanks a lot!!

Yip, judge, jury, executioner and fine collector all rolled into one neat little package ....... with a gun..... on duty or not.

Is it really that bad? Is this certain areas or all over? If it is that bad how does any thing in the system get taken care of?

Sorry Bops, what do you mean by 'anything in the system' ?

Sorry Bops, what do you mean by 'anything in the system' ?

Sorry, I meant the legal aspect of the government, as in how do any criminals see justice? It would seem that nobody could trust to call the police for help and any one in trouble could find a way out of it with police like this. I would almost hazard a guess that those in prison couldn't come up with enough money for the polices needs? Some of the criminal justice system has to work, right?

You can pay your way out of any crimnal situation here!, and you are correct, the ones in Prison are the ones that couldnt pay

Shouldn't this thread be about Thai "disorganised" crime. If crime in Thailand was organised it would be the only thing which was.

Sorry Bops, what do you mean by 'anything in the system' ?

Sorry, I meant the legal aspect of the government, as in how do any criminals see justice? It would seem that nobody could trust to call the police for help and any one in trouble could find a way out of it with police like this. I would almost hazard a guess that those in prison couldn't come up with enough money for the polices needs? Some of the criminal justice system has to work, right?

See Boats post above this one, that pretty much sums it up.

Around here, we farangs are very lucky as we all know the ex-police chief for Buriram, you can't help it as he comes around and introduces himself as soon as you move into the area, he like to practice his English language skills on us...... any time one of us gets stopped, we wind down the tinted window and just get waved along as soon as they see our pasty white (red) faces, actually none of us get stopped any more as they are used to the registration numbers.

It works for ours wives too, but I would dread being an ordinary member of the public without any connections, your life is controlled by anyone in a uniform, the brown one being top of the pile.

Had pretty much the same thing when I was driving down 304 from Khao Hin Sorn to Kabin Buri every day. I was driving a white Vigo 4x4 (not too many of them around) and the police used to stop me just to practise their English.

When I rolled it across 304 at 3:00am I happened to have in the car a plaque given to me from the Kabin Buri police for a donation I'd given. No questions asked about the accident. Police organised the towing and put me up in a 5 star hotel. Great guys. I still play golf with them and they joke anout how if I'd hit anyone how they would have to blame the accident on them.

WOW! While I believe that justice is an important factor in a free society.......wouldn't it be great to be white in Thailand!!!!

WOW! While I believe that justice is an important factor in a free society.......wouldn't it be great to be white in Thailand!!!!

In the area that you are known, yes, elsewhere it can be different.

Had pretty much the same thing when I was driving down 304 from Khao Hin Sorn to Kabin Buri every day. I was driving a white Vigo 4x4 (not too many of them around) and the police used to stop me just to practise their English.

When I rolled it across 304 at 3:00am I happened to have in the car a plaque given to me from the Kabin Buri police for a donation I'd given. No questions asked about the accident. Police organised the towing and put me up in a 5 star hotel. Great guys. I still play golf with them and they joke anout how if I'd hit anyone how they would have to blame the accident on them.

Yeah, the police in Kabin are great until they start turning up at your business expecting "freebies".

"freebies" are always a good investment provided they don't hurt the bottom line too much.

Sterling Seagrave's book Lords of the Rim covers ethnic Chinese organized crime in Thailand and is an easy read.

Sterling Seagrave's book Lords of the Rim covers ethnic Chinese organized crime in Thailand and is an easy read.

Yes, I have this book on my Amazon wish list, but it is like $75!!! I am waiting for a special time.......and extra money.