Returning To Visit Family In Thailand

[geoffers]

my wife got her setlement visa recently, i just wanted to know, can she go back anytime for holidays etc to thailand, or does she have to stay here for so many years etc, before she can return.

[geoffers]

settlement

[Richard W]

my wife got her setlement visa recently, i just wanted to know, can she go back anytime for holidays etc to thailand, or does she have to stay here for so many years etc, before she can return.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Short visits are no problem, so long as the Home Office doesn't have her passport, as it will at the end of the probationary period and while any application for naturalisation is being processed.

[geoffers]

settlement

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks for the reply, the home office dosnt have her passport, shes only been in london 2 weeks, you say short visits, how long do you mean, could she go for say 2 mths, then come here again, thanks

[the scouser]

Your wife can come and go as often and for as long as she wishes within the validity of her leave to enter. During this period she does not require another visa to re-enter the UK providing that her circumstances have not changed; i.e. you are still married and live together. Should her passport ever be with the Home Office when she wishes to travel she can ask for it back to facilitate this. Alternatively, plan your trips around the likely dates when the document will be in the Home Office's possession.

Scouse.

[Richard W]

Should her passport ever be with the Home Office when she wishes to travel she can ask for it back to facilitate this. Alternatively, plan your trips around the likely dates when the document will be in the Home Office's possession.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course, if she does ask for her passport back her application will be deemed to have been withdrawn and the fee will be forfeited - see Making an Application. So plan your trips round these dates!

Edited January 3, 2005 by Richard W

[the scouser]

Of course, if she does ask for her passport back her application will be deemed to have been withdrawn and the fee will be forfeited

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Technically not so. It is only on leaving the UK that an outstanding application lapses. Asking for your the return of your passport, per se, does not cause the application to be deemed withdrawn. Also, an application for naturalisation would continue to be considered once a passport had been returned even if the individual were to leave the UK.

Scouse.

Edited January 3, 2005 by the scouser

[Richard W]

Also, an application for naturalisation would continue to be considered once a passport had been returned even if the individual were to leave the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is this a change?

[the scouser]

Is this a change?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'Twas ever thus as a nationality applicant is not seeking leave to remain. In order to qualify the applicant will already hold ILE/R, no "higher" status of LTR being attainable. Indeed, an applicant need not submit his/her original passport as a certified copy suffices.

Applications for leave to remain which are under consideration are deemed to have lapsed if the applicant leaves the UK because by its very nature it can only be granted if the individual is present in the UK.

Scouse.

[Richard W]

Your wife can come and go as often and for as long as she wishes within the validity of her leave to enter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's Section 8 Part 1 Instructions Paragraph 4.5 about? It reads:

There is no specific requirement in the Rules that the entire probationary period must be spent in the United Kingdom. For example, where an applicant has spent a limited period outside of the United Kingdom in connection with his employment, this should not count against him. However, if he has spent the majority of the period overseas, there may be reason to doubt that all the requirements of the Rules have been met. Each case must be judged on its merits, taking into account reasons for travel, length of absences and whether the applicant and sponsor travelled and lived together during the time spent outside the United Kingdom. These factors will need to be considered against the requirements of the Rules. Spouses serving in HM forces and living together abroad would, for the purposes of the probationary period, be deemed to be living in the United Kingdom. Further information on spouses of HM Forces and others who benefit under this provision can be found in paragraph 7 below.

The emphasis is mine. (Aside: 'He' is the pronoun for an indefinite person of unknown sex.) It seems oddly worded if the doubt is on whether the spouse is settled and present in the UK. I have wondered what the situation is with couples who overwinter in Thailand and spend the warmer months in the UK. I knew a Welsh builder with a Thai wife who was doing that - he was worried that their child's schooling needs would put a stop to that.

[the scouser]

Richard,

Should the holder of probationary LTE/R spend most of that time outside of the UK then, in general, the Home Office would be unconcerned about it providing that the individual is still married and cohabiting with their spouse. Yes, they could, in theory, refuse LTR in such circumstances but would have difficulty justifying such a course of action as the holder will have presented them with a fait accompli; i.e. the person is living with their spouse which is fully in accordance with the rules, even if, for example, they have just spent 18 months apart. To emphasise your emphasis the paragraph says "may be reason to doubt that all of the requirements of the Rules have been met". In practise this is a little-used part of the Rules and when utilised is normally a secondary reason for refusal used to bolster the principal one. The bottom-line is that if, at the date of application, the applicant is together with their spouse and the public funds criterion is also fulfilled, then the Home Office cannot refuse the application. What they can do is grant a further period of probation.

Incidentally, should the Home Office attempt to refuse such an application there would be article 8 human rights considerations; i.e. the right to a family life. Again, it would not matter that the individual making the breach of human rights claim has not been living a family life in the UK for the larger part of their probationary LTE/R as they can enforce their right at any time should the prevailing circumstances allow it; i.e. they are married to a Brit and they intend to live together.

Scouse.

[geoffers]

Your wife can come and go as often and for as long as she wishes within the validity of her leave to enter. During this period she does not require another visa to re-enter the UK providing that her circumstances have not changed; i.e. you are still married and live together. Should her passport ever be with the Home Office when she wishes to travel she can ask for it back to facilitate this. Alternatively, plan your trips around the likely dates when the document will be in the Home Office's possession.

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP SCOUSER, ON HER RETURN TO THE UK, SHE WOULDNT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS AT IMMAGRATION WOULD SHE, IF SHE TRAVELLED ALONE, AS I WOULDNT BE THERE TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS FOR HER

[the scouser]

The chances are that she wouldn't have any problems but if there were the immigration officer would come and speak to you.

Scouse.

[Rinrada]

After 22 Emails i am still getting the run around from the 2 "top gun"depts.at OUR Home Office

eg. a simple question about a right of abode stamp in a Thai Nationals Passport

(I dont think that such a stamp actually exists? but still cannot get answer from top dogs)

Also not talking about replacement indefinate right to remain Visa

Between Home Office Liverpool and Croydon.

From ........IND

Dear Sir,

To obtain a right of abode stamp,you will need to contact the Nationality Directorate.Tel: 0845 010 5200, .

Yours sincerely.....

Managed Migration

Answer...

From ..Nationality Directorate.

This is a Nonsense.

We do not endorse passports in this office.

Our responsibility is solely for persons overseas wishing to travel to the UK.

It is IND who have responsibility for persons already in the UK.

If IND cannot endorse the passport in this way,then you could try the Passport Agency. ...wot the...???

But I would not be hopeful.

No ...........they dont either.... .

[the scouser]

A certificate of the confirmation of the right of abode is a sticker which is placed in a passport and which tells the immigration officer that the holder is to be treated as being British. The relevant law is sections 2 and 3 of the Immigration Act 1971.

Those who qualify are those who are British citizens but who don't travel on a British passport, the C. of E. being stuck in the "foreign" document. If the applicant already has indefinite leave to enter/remain and has been naturalised there is no real advantage to be gained in obtaining a C. of E. It's primary advantage is for those who have an entitlement to British citizenship but who are also nationals of a second country which does not recognise dual nationality. The holder can then prove he is British without actually having to hold a British passport.

If in the UK an application should be submitted to IND in Scouseland and if abroad to the British embassy.

Scouse.

[Rinrada]

A certificate of the confirmation of the right of abode is a sticker which is placed in a passport and which tells the immigration officer that the holder is to be treated as being British. The relevant law is sections 2 and 3 of the Immigration Act 1971.

Thats the one

Thanks Scouse.

I will get right back on to them again first thing tomorrow morning. and hit them with it.....

Last time I had a prob.with them I ended up asking our local MP to get a backdoor response but on this one would rather handle it myself.

heres a fun extract from earlier e-mail no.15 or so,,,

from home office -Croydon.

Unfortunately that stamp is not acquired at this office

You will need to contact the Nationality office in Liverpool.

I have included their contact details below :-

General Enquiries Section,

Room 311, 3rd Floor,

India Buildings,

Liverpool L2 0QN.

from home office -Liverpool.

I am sorry, you have addressed your message to the wrong office. We in UKvisas deal solely with immigration matters arising overseas. It is the Immigration & Nationality Directorate (IND) of the Home Office that has responsibility for persons already in the UK.

You will need to contact the Ind Office in London

I have included their contact details below :-

Public Enquiry Office

Immigration & Nationality Directorate

Lunar House

40 Wellesley Road

Croydon CR9 2AT

[Rinrada]

Dont you just love dealing with government Depts...

Right ...Home Office again ...what the score...Got a feeling that i am going to get scuppered again at the first jump....Annex 3.1 versus Annex 3.3 however lots more races ahead...

Immigration Act 1971..lets see

DIPLOMATIC SERVICE PROCEDURES

ENTRY CLEARANCE VOLUME 1

GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS

(07/03/03)

ANNEX 3.1

PERSONS HAVE THE RIGHT OF ABODE IF IMMEDIATELY BEFORE 1.1.83 THEY WERE:

a)

a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC) who had that citizenship by birth, adoption, naturalisation or registration in the United Kingdom or in any of the Islands*(Section 2(1)(a) of the 1971 Act); or

ANNEX 3.3

CERTIFICATES OF ENTITLEMENT : EXPLANATORY LEAFLET

1.

Your passport has been endorsed to show that you have the right of

abode in the United Kingdom. (yes)

You will keep this right unless you change your present citizenship.(er Yes)

2.

If the endorsement is in a United Kingdom Passport (other than one which describes you as a British subject) you will, when the passport is replaced, be issued with a passport showing that you are a British citizen, which will in itself suffice to indicate that you have the right of abode in the United Kingdom.

3.

If you have a certificate of entitlement to the right of abode endorsed in any other country's passport, you may have a further certificate of entitlement endorsed in any subsequent passport (subject to the conditions in the first paragraph above)....yes sounds about right ...

[Richard W]

I think you mean you're scuppered by Section 3.3 of the Diplomatic Procedures

3.3 - Proof of Right of Abode

Under Section 3(9) of the 1971 Act, as amended by the Immigration Act 1988, a person claiming right of abode in the UK must prove it by presenting either:

a British citizen passport; or

a passport endorsed with a Certificate of Entitlement (see following sections for details).

This requirement supersedes earlier legislation which allowed the production of other documentation in some cases.

What's the problem in obtaining a British passport?

Have you read Section 3.11?

3.11 - Certificates of Entitlement for Dual Nationals

[...]

Caution should be exercised where a dual national applicant already holding a British passport showing right of abode in the UK applies for a Certificate of Entitlement in his/her other passport. Although there may be good reasons for the dual national to hold what is in effect a superfluous Certificate of Entitlement, if the applicant has no apparent reason for possessing both a Certificate of Entitlement and a British passport showing right of abode, you must consider whether there is an intention to misuse a Certificate. If so, the application should not be accepted.

[Rinrada]

Richard ..Thanks for the additional info on section 3.3 which actually looks good....but will see....anyway..

Just gave the Home Office in Liverpool a tinkle but a recording tells you that the service cannot be connected.

This is a major Government Dept.costing Billions of Pounds but sounds like somebody forgot to pay their telephone bill.

No wonder David Blunket jacked it in

Email no 25 on hold....