Harrassed By Ftpa In Walking Street

[Jareddiving]

Who are you?? I am tourist police.. <snip>

Edited March 5, 2009 by soundman
Removed inflamatory comment. No more.

[sriracha john]

Wow what a shocking video... I'd half expected the lad to be beaten to a pulp the way things were being described.

Obviously he was stopped from filming prior to documenting the other aspects contained in his Letter to the Editor, but he certainly did capture a lot of them.

He never said he was beaten, but do you expect him to still be holding a camera and filming it while it was occurring if he had?

Edited March 5, 2009 by sriracha john

[Gary A]

Some people get quite upset when someone is filming them. I'm not real fond of being filmed myself but I normally just flip them the bird. Makes their video clip a little more exciting. I have finally convinced my friend that he could get in serious trouble smashing cameras. Now he just points, yells and tells them to stop. Since my friend weighs about 240 pounds, they always stop. He would likely go back to smashing cameras if they didn't stop.

[Zodiac]

Is it correct that many of these "tourist police" are ex-cons and have criminal records from their own countries?

[suiging]

The concept of Europeans helping in a mediation role in the volotile atmosphere of WS is a good one. Many drunks and their attitudes can be mis-intrepreted by people from a different culture armed with guns, so what's not to like about someone trying to help before it all ends in tears ?

However, kiddy psychology one o one, will tell you that being aggressive in appearance and attitude, may not help. Got to say the black garb and snarls must be like red rags to bulls on occasion and if the guys doing the job are genuine in their motives, should have gone from the onset.

[PattayaParent]

What I don't understand is if these TPV guys are there to assist Farangs in dealings with the local BiB and to translate / explain what's happening in a particular situation then why do they have to be built like Rambo to do that?

Why do they have to be so intimidating? Can't a person of average size and build use his mouth and brain just as effectively as a musclebound guy to 'assist' his fellow Farang?

If it's a question of presenting an imposing authority figure in case there's trouble then I'm sure the BiB with the gun stood behind any normal sized person would certainly get a 'perps' attention and get him to behave.

Edited March 5, 2009 by PattayaParent

[prefabs]

Howard, I asked if you could provide a simple answer to the 5 questions which a previous poster brought up. LtCol also brought up few pertinent points. By declining to answer, you are losing the high ground.

Seems like these guys are causing a lot of unnecessary problems for themselves, they sure aren't trying to keep low profiles and it may all end in tears on day.

[alexth]

Obviously I don’t expect anyone to believe this and I now don’t get involved with FTPA related posts on any forum anymore because they normally contain so much BS that any attempt by me to give my side of the story is normally a fruitless task.

The incident began when it was pointed out by one of the Thai Tourist Police Officers that a man sitting in the front of the Black and White Bar next to the Mobile Unit appeared to be taking some sneaky pictures of us. He told me to go and have a word with him as he was not happy. I VERY POLITELY approached the man accompanied by Mr. Harrison who was not on duty and had come down to see me. He was not in uniform and was not wearing his ID badge. I POLITELY asked him what he was doing and saw that my approach frightened him so I became even more polite in fear of upsetting the guy who, at this point, was shaking a bit. I asked him why he was filming us in that manner and he denied that he was filming in a covert fashion. I suggested to him that he was and told him that if he wanted to take some better pictures of us, he could do so, all he had to do was ask as most people do. He agreed to stop filming and that was the end of the incident.

At no point did I put my hands on his camera or person or did I order him to stop filming. I politely suggested that filming in that manner was not good and was upsetting the Thai Tourist Police Officers who initially spotted the man. Because if this I wanted him to stop to avoid them from approaching the guy which may have caused an unnecessary scene.

And that was it….much to do about nothing and another incident blown completely out of proportion by people who know nothing about what we do and how we have helped thousands of people over the years.

I will not be responding further and fully expect the usual idiots to come out and play on this thread. If it makes you happy then go ahead.

Howard

Thanks for taking the time in clearing things up, even though, it was all pretty clear.

Personally, I didn't find anything insulting nor intimidating in your approach. It was just a question, the kind of question I would ask anyone who is filming or taking pictures of me, even if I represent no authority. a simple clear and honest answer from the OP would have straightened things up, no biggie. But it's easier to go bashing on TV, in the end of the day, some people have a lot of time on their hands...

[IanForbes]

Let me put ANOTHER perspective on this...

If someone was following ME around and taking videos of me without my authority then I might say something. Just WHY was the guy filming the police? From the police perspective it could be a guy with connections to hit-men planning a "sting". The guy was obviously taking video of JUST the police. Why was that done? It is one thing to be panning a video of local scenery and having the occasional policeman in the home movie. It's entirely DIFFERENT to be intentionally seeking out video of one specific group... whether it's police, army, or some private citizen. How would YOU like it if someone set up a series of video cameras around your home? I doubt if very few people wouldn't say something about it.

[CGW]

I don´t need to have a disput with these "black sheriffs, nor do I need to a disput with their defenders. Problem is - as usual, the Thai police act an an very unprofessional way, to allow foreign men to act in public in these uniforms.

These uniforms make certain kind of impressions, which is not good! Uniform is not just some kind of dressing . It is a special dressing with certain meaning.

I think, in my country, police would never allow untrained foreigners to act this way. Problem is, the Thai Police act totaly unprofesional to do this. If their own staff do not speak english good enough, they should train them ! And they can use people to translate, but not uniformed "black sheriffs" for doing this job!

Excellent point Sir, instead of professionals we have a bunch of guys flouncing around with nothing better to do! makes one wonder?

[bkkpartyguy]

i had a chocolate muffin for breakfast.

Did a YouTube search ,but cant locate ,, Have you posted yet

[anothertorres]

i had a chocolate muffin for breakfast.

Did a YouTube search ,but cant locate ,, Have you posted yet

you are NOT going to believe this. that dog that i was talking about? yeah, she confiscated the footage and now i have to go down to Soi 9 to get a police statement requesting a duplicate copy. seriously though, i'm on it. first thing in the morning.

[jtp]

i had a chocolate muffin for breakfast.

Did a YouTube search ,but cant locate ,, Have you posted yet

you are NOT going to believe this. that dog that i was talking about? yeah, she confiscated the footage and now i have to go down to Soi 9 to get a police statement requesting a duplicate copy. seriously though, i'm on it. first thing in the morning.

Well,we are waiting...Just how long does it take????Jeez......... You guys are crazy!!

[PhilHarries]

I wonder how many people on this thread proclaiming the guy's rights to film where he likes just because he is on holiday spend the other half of their time sounding off about how their home country has big brother watching your every move via CCTV's? Anyway I wonder what would have happened to him had he been filming the police, or any uniformed organisation, in other countries in the region? I bet if you went to the UK and started videoing the police going about their duties it wouldn't be long before you were "helping them with their enquiries".

I'm not defending these volunteers, I don't know too much about them but they certainly look like jumped up nightclub bouncers, but you have to admit the way the guy went about videoing them was an invite for unwelcome attention. Maybe that's where he gets his kicks, being the martyr for the cause of personal freedom. Certainly there are a few guys I've known who would have cheerfully shoved that camera right where the sun don't shine.

Anyway I'll let you two guys get back to your muffins and your dogs but please remember Muffin the mule is illegal in Thailand.

[arachne]

Obviously I don't expect anyone to believe this and I now don't get involved with FTPA related posts on any forum anymore because they normally contain so much BS that any attempt by me to give my side of the story is normally a fruitless task.

The incident began when it was pointed out by one of the Thai Tourist Police Officers that a man sitting in the front of the Black and White Bar next to the Mobile Unit appeared to be taking some sneaky pictures of us. He told me to go and have a word with him as he was not happy. I VERY POLITELY approached the man accompanied by Mr. Harrison who was not on duty and had come down to see me. He was not in uniform and was not wearing his ID badge. I POLITELY asked him what he was doing and saw that my approach frightened him so I became even more polite in fear of upsetting the guy who, at this point, was shaking a bit. I asked him why he was filming us in that manner and he denied that he was filming in a covert fashion. I suggested to him that he was and told him that if he wanted to take some better pictures of us, he could do so, all he had to do was ask as most people do. He agreed to stop filming and that was the end of the incident.

At no point did I put my hands on his camera or person or did I order him to stop filming. I politely suggested that filming in that manner was not good and was upsetting the Thai Tourist Police Officers who initially spotted the man. Because if this I wanted him to stop to avoid them from approaching the guy which may have caused an unnecessary scene.

And that was it….much to do about nothing and another incident blown completely out of proportion by people who know nothing about what we do and how we have helped thousands of people over the years.

I will not be responding further and fully expect the usual idiots to come out and play on this thread. If it makes you happy then go ahead.

Howard

Okay. Time I introduced myself. I'm the guy who was confronted by Mr. Miller and his "friend".

First of all, I'm 55, a long time resident of Pattaya and I'm raising a family here. I consider myself an ordinary, responsible, easy going guy enjoying life in Thailand. I've never been in any trouble, nor have I had any altercation in or outside of Pattaya. I sample the nightlife occasionally and frequent the bars.

I must thank Mr. Miller for taking the time and trouble to respond.

I'm a keen videographer and photographer. Some of my work has been used commercially in the past but I'm no papparazzo and I've never filmed or photographed "covertly" (however you wish to define the term). Everyone in Pattaya, however, is being "covertly" filmed by surveillance cameras which are becoming more and more prevalent, including in the bars. I've never seen any signs warning of CCTV, and my permission has never been requested - but, there again, it really doesn't bother me.

Walking Street is a major international tourist attraction. Every night you'll see hundreds of videos and photos being taken. I myself, and no doubt all of you, have featured in many of them, knowingly or otherwise. For most people this is no big deal.

Before I continue I must make a few things clear:

- This is the first video I have posted on Youtube

- I very rarely partake in Internet forums. In fact this is my first time on Thai Visa

- I've got nothing against Mr. Miller personally, and I have no ulterior motive

- I acknowledge that the Volunteers' intentions are generally good and that they have no doubt helped many tourists

- My original communication was sent to the Pattaya Daily News as the two other major Pattaya news sites are owned by the team leaders of the two groups of Pattaya police volunteers

In reply to Mr. Miller's comments:

If one of the "Thai Tourist Police Officers" was not happy with my filming why didn't HE accompany you to speak to me instead of your civilian clad sidekick who had nothing to do with the situation. Perhaps you can provide me with his name so I can contact him personally and he can confirm that what I was doing is illegal, as you yourself have chosen to avoid this question. I will take take this opportunity to apologise to the Thai Tourist Police should I have caused them any worry or upset as Mr. Miller states.

I repeat again, I was NOT taking sneaky pictures. I held the camera on my lap as I always do when sitting down because it's heavy, easier to support and hold steady, and more comfortable. How I hold and use a camera is my own business, and certainly no concern of yours. If I wanted to take "sneaky" pictures, I could have done so quite easily, and you would have been none the wiser.

I didn't say you weren't "POLITE" (Miller's capitals). I didn't say you were abusive or offensive, if you were I'd have told you to &lt;deleted&gt; off. I said you were arrogant, authoritative and intimidating - which you fail to deny in your reply. You were instructing me emphatically what I could and couldn't do. At no time was I informed that I was breaking the law or breaching any regulations

Mr. Harrison was not in uniform, had no ID and was not "on duty", so why was he with you? Again you fail to answer this and I think it was a bad judgement call on your part. He said he was "Tourist Police". Which he is not. Was that a slip up, or is that the general way you identify yourselves to the public? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe impersonating a police officer is a crime in Thailand. Also from his past exposure in the media I'd have thought Mr. Harrison would be keeping a low profile and certainly keep away from any off-duty situations. Or perhaps he thought I was working for the media, and he was the one to instigate your actions, and which is why he accompanied you? I merely speculate.

You say your approach "frightened me" - yes, I admit I was startled and taken aback at being approached by 2 guys, one in a black uniform covered in quasi official emblems and insignia and a belt full of bells and whistles, and another guy who, well I didn't know who he was. And yes, you bet I was shaking. I was very angry at being embarassed in front of a crowd of people, in whose company I had to remain after you left.

Both you and Mr. Harrison were continuously talking over each other. Your manner was nothing short of harrasment. Your main concern was that I was working for the media, and that you would be subject to more bad pubilicity.

Mr. Miller may think this is much ado about nothing. It may have been a small incident, but I think this is just one symptom of a big problem that concerns many expats and tourists alike, as is clearly indicated by the interest generated every time the issue of the Police Volunteers is raised. Sooner or later this will have to be addressed.

[sriracha john]

Many police departments run video cameras in every squad car on patrol. No permission is requested to film any and all that pass in front of it's windshield.

Several main questions remained unanswered, which is par for the course with this organization shrouded in subterfuge and obfuscation. First, is it illegal to video on Walking Street? In the absence of any definitive yes, I say no, or if it is, the police have a lot of other people to arrest.

Walking Street is a zoo with many different attractions and just like a zoo, with so many different potential subjects to chose from, some people's video efforts there focus on one particular type of animal, eg. hippopotamuses, rather than try to capture the entire zoo on film. That he chose to focus on one particular type of activity, the PFTPA, is no different. They are an unusual looking group in an unusal type of activity from what many of it's visitors are expecting. It's not suspect in and of itself to chose to video, unless as is pointed out in the OP, the group is currently very suspicious of any untoward press. Having just had one of their men accused of assault:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Lady-Boys-Ac...Po-t245781.html

Lady Boys Accuse Pattaya Foreign Police Volunteer Of Assault

(coincidentally, it's the same man as being identified as being involved in this incident, as well)

perhaps that's almost understandable, but certainly not every non-involved person would know they are under the microscope.

Apparently this recent adverse publicity even has them concerned (falsely and egotistically) that international media like CNN or BBC would actually consider doing an expose' on their group. Hence their over-sensitivity to the issue results in a presumption of someone "up to no good", when, in fact, he's doing nothing illegal in the first place.

[anothertorres]

i had a chocolate muffin for breakfast.

Did a YouTube search ,but cant locate ,, Have you posted yet

you are NOT going to believe this. that dog that i was talking about? yeah, she confiscated the footage and now i have to go down to Soi 9 to get a police statement requesting a duplicate copy. seriously though, i'm on it. first thing in the morning.

Well,we are waiting...Just how long does it take????Jeez......... You guys are crazy!!

obviously you have never experienced Soi 9. your patience is ridiculously awesome. here, in the meantime enjoy this picture of a bunny with a pancake on it's head:

[britmaveric]

Why would you be afraid of Howard? Howard is most laid back TPV posted on Walking Street. TPV whether they are wearing a uniform with a utility belt or not is highly threatening? HM told you what the problem was and how it was being perceived by the Thai Tourist Police. I'm sure if you would have asked he most likely would have taken you over to the Thai in question who had concerns on what you were doing. Any rate stop whinging about pretty much nothing.

Edited March 5, 2009 by britmaveric

[sriracha john]

Obviously I don't expect anyone to believe this and I now don't get involved with FTPA related posts on any forum anymore because they normally contain so much BS that any attempt by me to give my side of the story is normally a fruitless task.

The incident began when it was pointed out by one of the Thai Tourist Police Officers that a man sitting in the front of the Black and White Bar next to the Mobile Unit appeared to be taking some sneaky pictures of us. He told me to go and have a word with him as he was not happy. I VERY POLITELY approached the man accompanied by Mr. Harrison who was not on duty and had come down to see me. He was not in uniform and was not wearing his ID badge. I POLITELY asked him what he was doing and saw that my approach frightened him so I became even more polite in fear of upsetting the guy who, at this point, was shaking a bit. I asked him why he was filming us in that manner and he denied that he was filming in a covert fashion. I suggested to him that he was and told him that if he wanted to take some better pictures of us, he could do so, all he had to do was ask as most people do. He agreed to stop filming and that was the end of the incident.

At no point did I put my hands on his camera or person or did I order him to stop filming. I politely suggested that filming in that manner was not good and was upsetting the Thai Tourist Police Officers who initially spotted the man. Because if this I wanted him to stop to avoid them from approaching the guy which may have caused an unnecessary scene.

And that was it….much to do about nothing and another incident blown completely out of proportion by people who know nothing about what we do and how we have helped thousands of people over the years.

I will not be responding further and fully expect the usual idiots to come out and play on this thread. If it makes you happy then go ahead.

Howard

Okay. Time I introduced myself. I'm the guy who was confronted by Mr. Miller and his "friend".

First of all, I'm 55, a long time resident of Pattaya and I'm raising a family here. I consider myself an ordinary, responsible, easy going guy enjoying life in Thailand. I've never been in any trouble, nor have I had any altercation in or outside of Pattaya. I sample the nightlife occasionally and frequent the bars.

I must thank Mr. Miller for taking the time and trouble to respond.

I'm a keen videographer and photographer. Some of my work has been used commercially in the past but I'm no papparazzo and I've never filmed or photographed "covertly" (however you wish to define the term). Everyone in Pattaya, however, is being "covertly" filmed by surveillance cameras which are becoming more and more prevalent, including in the bars. I've never seen any signs warning of CCTV, and my permission has never been requested - but, there again, it really doesn't bother me.

Walking Street is a major international tourist attraction. Every night you'll see hundreds of videos and photos being taken. I myself, and no doubt all of you, have featured in many of them, knowingly or otherwise. For most people this is no big deal.

Before I continue I must make a few things clear:

- This is the first video I have posted on Youtube

- I very rarely partake in Internet forums. In fact this is my first time on Thai Visa

- I've got nothing against Mr. Miller personally, and I have no ulterior motive

- I acknowledge that the Volunteers' intentions are generally good and that they have no doubt helped many tourists

- My original communication was sent to the Pattaya Daily News as the two other major Pattaya news sites are owned by the team leaders of the two groups of Pattaya police volunteers

In reply to Mr. Miller's comments:

If one of the "Thai Tourist Police Officers" was not happy with my filming why didn't HE accompany you to speak to me instead of your civilian clad sidekick who had nothing to do with the situation. Perhaps you can provide me with his name so I can contact him personally and he can confirm that what I was doing is illegal, as you yourself have chosen to avoid this question. I will take take this opportunity to apologise to the Thai Tourist Police should I have caused them any worry or upset as Mr. Miller states.

I repeat again, I was NOT taking sneaky pictures. I held the camera on my lap as I always do when sitting down because it's heavy, easier to support and hold steady, and more comfortable. How I hold and use a camera is my own business, and certainly no concern of yours. If I wanted to take "sneaky" pictures, I could have done so quite easily, and you would have been none the wiser.

I didn't say you weren't "POLITE" (Miller's capitals). I didn't say you were abusive or offensive, if you were I'd have told you to &lt;deleted&gt; off. I said you were arrogant, authoritative and intimidating - which you fail to deny in your reply. You were instructing me emphatically what I could and couldn't do. At no time was I informed that I was breaking the law or breaching any regulations

Mr. Harrison was not in uniform, had no ID and was not "on duty", so why was he with you? Again you fail to answer this and I think it was a bad judgement call on your part. He said he was "Tourist Police". Which he is not. Was that a slip up, or is that the general way you identify yourselves to the public? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe impersonating a police officer is a crime in Thailand. Also from his past exposure in the media I'd have thought Mr. Harrison would be keeping a low profile and certainly keep away from any off-duty situations. Or perhaps he thought I was working for the media, and he was the one to instigate your actions, and which is why he accompanied you? I merely speculate.

You say your approach "frightened me" - yes, I admit I was startled and taken aback at being approached by 2 guys, one in a black uniform covered in quasi official emblems and insignia and a belt full of bells and whistles, and another guy who, well I didn't know who he was. And yes, you bet I was shaking. I was very angry at being embarassed in front of a crowd of people, in whose company I had to remain after you left.

Both you and Mr. Harrison were continuously talking over each other. Your manner was nothing short of harrasment. Your main concern was that I was working for the media, and that you would be subject to more bad pubilicity.

Mr. Miller may think this is much ado about nothing. It may have been a small incident, but I think this is just one symptom of a big problem that concerns many expats and tourists alike, as is clearly indicated by the interest generated every time the issue of the Police Volunteers is raised. Sooner or later this will have to be addressed.

Thank you and welcome to Thaivisa...

I see that we were simultaneously composing our posts at the same and that both of our results shared some of the same exact concerns and raised similar points.

Edited March 5, 2009 by sriracha john

[JimmyTheMook]

i had a chocolate muffin for breakfast.

Did a YouTube search ,but cant locate ,, Have you posted yet

you are NOT going to believe this. that dog that i was talking about? yeah, she confiscated the footage and now i have to go down to Soi 9 to get a police statement requesting a duplicate copy. seriously though, i'm on it. first thing in the morning.

Well,we are waiting...Just how long does it take????Jeez......... You guys are crazy!!

obviously you have never experienced Soi 9. your patience is ridiculously awesome. here, in the meantime enjoy this picture of a bunny with a pancake on it's head:

That Bunny in question is a guinea pig unless you can prove otherwise.

[syd barrett]

Obviously I don't expect anyone to believe this and I now don't get involved with FTPA related posts on any forum anymore because they normally contain so much BS that any attempt by me to give my side of the story is normally a fruitless task.

The incident began when it was pointed out by one of the Thai Tourist Police Officers that a man sitting in the front of the Black and White Bar next to the Mobile Unit appeared to be taking some sneaky pictures of us. He told me to go and have a word with him as he was not happy. I VERY POLITELY approached the man accompanied by Mr. Harrison who was not on duty and had come down to see me. He was not in uniform and was not wearing his ID badge. I POLITELY asked him what he was doing and saw that my approach frightened him so I became even more polite in fear of upsetting the guy who, at this point, was shaking a bit. I asked him why he was filming us in that manner and he denied that he was filming in a covert fashion. I suggested to him that he was and told him that if he wanted to take some better pictures of us, he could do so, all he had to do was ask as most people do. He agreed to stop filming and that was the end of the incident.

At no point did I put my hands on his camera or person or did I order him to stop filming. I politely suggested that filming in that manner was not good and was upsetting the Thai Tourist Police Officers who initially spotted the man. Because if this I wanted him to stop to avoid them from approaching the guy which may have caused an unnecessary scene.

And that was it….much to do about nothing and another incident blown completely out of proportion by people who know nothing about what we do and how we have helped thousands of people over the years.

I will not be responding further and fully expect the usual idiots to come out and play on this thread. If it makes you happy then go ahead.

Howard

Okay. Time I introduced myself. I'm the guy who was confronted by Mr. Miller and his "friend".

First of all, I'm 55, a long time resident of Pattaya and I'm raising a family here. I consider myself an ordinary, responsible, easy going guy enjoying life in Thailand. I've never been in any trouble, nor have I had any altercation in or outside of Pattaya. I sample the nightlife occasionally and frequent the bars.

I must thank Mr. Miller for taking the time and trouble to respond.

I'm a keen videographer and photographer. Some of my work has been used commercially in the past but I'm no papparazzo and I've never filmed or photographed "covertly" (however you wish to define the term). Everyone in Pattaya, however, is being "covertly" filmed by surveillance cameras which are becoming more and more prevalent, including in the bars. I've never seen any signs warning of CCTV, and my permission has never been requested - but, there again, it really doesn't bother me.

Walking Street is a major international tourist attraction. Every night you'll see hundreds of videos and photos being taken. I myself, and no doubt all of you, have featured in many of them, knowingly or otherwise. For most people this is no big deal.

Before I continue I must make a few things clear:

- This is the first video I have posted on Youtube

- I very rarely partake in Internet forums. In fact this is my first time on Thai Visa

- I've got nothing against Mr. Miller personally, and I have no ulterior motive

- I acknowledge that the Volunteers' intentions are generally good and that they have no doubt helped many tourists

- My original communication was sent to the Pattaya Daily News as the two other major Pattaya news sites are owned by the team leaders of the two groups of Pattaya police volunteers

In reply to Mr. Miller's comments:

If one of the "Thai Tourist Police Officers" was not happy with my filming why didn't HE accompany you to speak to me instead of your civilian clad sidekick who had nothing to do with the situation. Perhaps you can provide me with his name so I can contact him personally and he can confirm that what I was doing is illegal, as you yourself have chosen to avoid this question. I will take take this opportunity to apologise to the Thai Tourist Police should I have caused them any worry or upset as Mr. Miller states.

I repeat again, I was NOT taking sneaky pictures. I held the camera on my lap as I always do when sitting down because it's heavy, easier to support and hold steady, and more comfortable. How I hold and use a camera is my own business, and certainly no concern of yours. If I wanted to take "sneaky" pictures, I could have done so quite easily, and you would have been none the wiser.

I didn't say you weren't "POLITE" (Miller's capitals). I didn't say you were abusive or offensive, if you were I'd have told you to &lt;deleted&gt; off. I said you were arrogant, authoritative and intimidating - which you fail to deny in your reply. You were instructing me emphatically what I could and couldn't do. At no time was I informed that I was breaking the law or breaching any regulations

Mr. Harrison was not in uniform, had no ID and was not "on duty", so why was he with you? Again you fail to answer this and I think it was a bad judgement call on your part. He said he was "Tourist Police". Which he is not. Was that a slip up, or is that the general way you identify yourselves to the public? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe impersonating a police officer is a crime in Thailand. Also from his past exposure in the media I'd have thought Mr. Harrison would be keeping a low profile and certainly keep away from any off-duty situations. Or perhaps he thought I was working for the media, and he was the one to instigate your actions, and which is why he accompanied you? I merely speculate.

You say your approach "frightened me" - yes, I admit I was startled and taken aback at being approached by 2 guys, one in a black uniform covered in quasi official emblems and insignia and a belt full of bells and whistles, and another guy who, well I didn't know who he was. And yes, you bet I was shaking. I was very angry at being embarassed in front of a crowd of people, in whose company I had to remain after you left.

Both you and Mr. Harrison were continuously talking over each other. Your manner was nothing short of harrasment. Your main concern was that I was working for the media, and that you would be subject to more bad pubilicity.

Mr. Miller may think this is much ado about nothing. It may have been a small incident, but I think this is just one symptom of a big problem that concerns many expats and tourists alike, as is clearly indicated by the interest generated every time the issue of the Police Volunteers is raised. Sooner or later this will have to be addressed.

Good post. I agree with everything you have said.

The problem with these so called volunteers, is that they are unregulated, and are on some sort of uniformed 'power' trip. At heart they are just bullies and cowardly bullies to boot. They are no stranger to nefarious activities in Pattaya and probably volunteered for 'hidden perks' in the first place.

I doubt they volunteered for altruistic reasons, if they were back in their home countries, they would be attempting to join the volunteer police force there and would be rejected at the first stage. In fact they probably wouldn't even be given a scout leaders uniform.

The only volunteers in Pattaya doing a good and worthy job are the volunteer ambulance men.

[misslovise]

Hey Mr. Miller !!

As we have recently seen Mr. Harrison in civilian clothes on more than a few occasions does this mean he's been promoted to Detective?

[norrona]

Just who have these people bullied???

Christ on a bike....people on here feeling sorry for pepper sprayed ladyboys, wait till you are accosted by them with them trying to get into your pockets and then i'd like to hear your genuine thoughts....

If you haven't done anything wrong and aren't planning to do anything against the law then really what is your issue with these people who give up their free time to do this?

Big problem as far as I can make out is people in Pattaya seem to have a bit too much time on their hands and if the fact that they wear a cowboy uniform bothers you that much then why not approach them on walking st and tell them your views....film it and put it on youtube without their permission just like this video if it really floats yer boat.

Now if this guy had 2 black eyes and a broken nose then i'd say you all had a point, he hasn't and was asked just what he was up to, acted shakey and suspicious and was given a stern talk...for all the FPV know he could be filming them on behalf of someone for something sinister...see even I am jumping to conclusions just like the majority on here now

[The Philosopher]

i had a chocolate muffin for breakfast.

Did a YouTube search ,but cant locate ,, Have you posted yet

you are NOT going to believe this. that dog that i was talking about? yeah, she confiscated the footage and now i have to go down to Soi 9 to get a police statement requesting a duplicate copy. seriously though, i'm on it. first thing in the morning.

Well,we are waiting...Just how long does it take????Jeez......... You guys are crazy!!

obviously you have never experienced Soi 9. your patience is ridiculously awesome. here, in the meantime enjoy this picture of a bunny with a pancake on it's head:

That Bunny in question is a guinea pig unless you can prove otherwise.

Sorry its a short eared pancake rabbit

[wackysleet]

>>>Demonstrates the arrogance of the Foreign Police<<< Did I miss something on the video???????

If you missed it then so did I, but the truth is that someone did touch the camera as it's plain to see, as for filming covertly and the question raised as to why he was filming with the camera on his lap, he gave an answer, that looking at the quality of his filming he seems reasonably competant at it and if he's comfortable why not, but it would appear that he had in fact been videoing for sometime as evidenced by the continual turning around and staring of one volunteer in particular.

[Jingthing]

The guy on top looks as if he loves puppies.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[Gerry290]

Very Interested Thread, reading both sides of the "debate".

I do not know any of the people involved personally other than seeing them around Pattaya.

While everyone has a right to video within the laws (whatever they are in Thailand, on this issue? anyone know? Is it

illegal to video (blatantly & obviously lets assume, video a Thai Police Office on Duty?).

If I look at it personally, if I was sitting in a bar in Walking Street, & someone I did not know or perhaps did not like, was blatantly & obviously filming me (video, mobile phone etc, not that I am a sight worth videoing LOL! ) above & beyond the normal "tourist on walking street" level "people watching" type video.

I more than likely would feel "violated" or uncomfortable for sure, & would politely ask them to stop, or if someone questionable, I may ask them why or what they are up to?

I do not like a stranger asking me for example, what my home address is, or a stranger asking me out of the blue a personal question, or a "need to know & you do need to know" nosy question, I would not answer them, & if they persisted, tell them to mind their own business (politely or if needed in a more assertive vocal manner) so to speak, if necessary. (Interesting to note, there is a lot of nosy strangers in Pattaya LOL!)

I would feel if someone was making a video of me, blatant & obvious, then it would be a similar potential violation to a pushy stranger asking me nosy personal questions, & I would ask them to stop, or question their motive.

More than likely, I would just leave the premises, & go some where else for the evening.

(Of course, I am not saying the Video Man on this Thread was being blatant or obvious. etc).

I did not think the Tourist Police guy in uniform was rude or aggressive ( though hand over camera lens or in front of lens, may not have been the best idea, in Ireland, a civilian could potentially press that as a potential case of assault.)

The Tourist Police Vol did say it was Ok to film if the Video Man asked. ( So, why did he not, ask there and then for permission to keep on filming?) Thats is what I would have done, if I had issue, with the situation or felt violated by the Pol Vol questioning of me &, turned back the "debate" & politely asked permission to keep filming ? (and if answer was "no" could i have a reasonable answer why not?).

Sometimes, when working in security, or close protection, or as most of us self defense instructors have done, our stint "working doors/bouncer" (boring mind numbing job), deal with drunks all night, you can on occasion get a little short with people, when a more polite response would be more fitting.

You will find in Ireland, for example, more often than not, if your pulled over for driving too fast, or a minor traffic violation in Dublin, our Police (An Gardai) can be a bit more aggressive in voice than necessary, & even with a zipped lip, as well as getting a traffic ticket, you more often than not, will get an almighty bollocking & telling off from the Garda (police officer) that would leave you feeling, your turning your car left where no left turn is allowed, is up on the level of a serious heinous crime. LOL.

(Being a decent clean citizen we should realize, while the cop might have been overly aggressive in voice, on a small matter, all they long their getting lied to, verbally abused, or patience pushed to the max, & since most people follow the law. on the bigger picture, its nice to know the criminals or street petty criminals in Dublin are not getting soft treatment either). Sometimes in general. times, need harder policing, & if your not up to anything, you got nothing to worry about, & a stiff bollocking for an illegal left turn, & Euro 15 ticket is not the end of the world ;-)

Another example, akin to someone OTT videoing you with permission, would be if you out with the wife/GF for a night & some drunk gives unwanted advances to your lady , you may move to another part of the venue to AVOID, or leave the venue, but if it persisted very soon, you would tell the drunk with his unwanted advances in a firm way, to push off, as he is now becoming a violation. (perhaps he has assaulted your lady with a touch (grope) , or called her a rude name since his advances are getting no attention , verbal assault).

Either way you will stop the violation, before it goes too far, either ask a nearby policeman to intervene with an official complaint, if its on the street, or perhaps ask the manager of the venue to remove the "drunken nusience" or quietly leave the venue as soon as there is a sniff of trouble. (usually the best policy, rare is there a real winner in a confrontation, be it verbal or physical, even if your the man left standing).

Point is when you out minding your own business within the law, your not going to put up with violations & let them walk all over you.

Not, that my opinion really matters, but since its an interesting thread, I think the Police Vol, he did, give the man with the camera, the opportunity to ask permission. (Ok the guy with no ID who dropped by to visit, other Vol in the incident. If no ID, should have stayed out of it, there was enough uniformed Police on duty.)

I think in general, while no one likes getting a parking ticket, or getting in any country a police office (or LEO Official) that is a bit on the ruder side, we must consider, it would be a hel_l of a lot worse, as a wild example, if you own a bar & worked your nuts off the build it up , and the Kray Twins turned up (or IRA or similar) turned up and informed you if you do not get out of "their" bar within 5 minutes, your going to get .45 blasted through the back of both knee caps! :-)

(and please do not slam the door on the way out, & oh yes, leave the keys to your new BWM also!)

My question is, based on reading Pattaya Newspaper articles of recent weeks, re appointment of new Immigration Police boss, he commented that Tourist Police Vols (Foreigners) were only for translation & language purposes, & other than that had no power to do anything else, detain, carry a weapon etc?

That seems to contradict many observations, of Police Vols (Foreigners) some dressed in commando SWAT gear on walking street, with what appeared to be telescopic batons on their belts etc?

Can anyone give a straight answer to that question please?

Thanks

Gerry

[LtCol]

The next Training for Police (real Government appointed Officers with a rank of Asst. Superintendant & above) I am to present is 23rd March , I will be showing some of this material, as , I believe that it is pertinent to "Authority" as part of the International Interest in Tourism. The Training by the way , is for Government Officers only.

No judgement on my part as a Trainer , just the incredible emotiveness that people without ANY Authority can produce when all that is real .is what appears to be Commercial lnterests . Don't know if that is a fact , purely an observation.

I find it absolutely fascinating that people can 'Volunteer' a public service that has repurcussions of alleged intimidation "hands across a camera" etc, questioning of members of the public without a 'just cause' & a total lack of substantive Government Authority.

In fact , a statement by the Police Chief in a public Newspaper (Pattaya Times) stated that these 'Voulunteers' Have "NO Authority" except as Translators. But, that is not what is being demonstrated by them from what I have seen on the posts & videos.

An Observation.

I am always looking for material to use in classes & I have to admit that ALL the "POLICE ? Volunteer " groups provide a plethora of material here in Pattaya , some serious , some levity . Thank you for that.

I still have to ask though , are these organisations purely Civilian with Police approval within a very limited capacity??

I would appreciate an answer from someone with managerial knowledge & no boat to row nor axe to grind.

But, it is none of my business , just asking. I doubt I will be answered anyway.

We have Volunteer SES (State Emergency Service ) personnel in Australia & they can always be found attending emergencies affecting & assisting the public in Bush fires , Missing Children , Overdue Boating incidents etc . They have the Publics respect & Thanks for their services, in the USA it is the same with missing people , aircraft lost etc , &lt;deleted&gt; is going on here ???............by the way , we all have to produce CERTIFIED National Police Clearances Annually from whatever Country we reside in or lived in in the previous 5 years , or from our Country of Birth , does that apply here ??? Again , none of my business , just asking.

Personally , I can see that a Volunteer Group to assist Tourists is a great idea , it just appears that the structure from vested commercial interests seem to think that a Uniformed Authoratian group is required . WHY ??? is 'power' a prerequisite??

Just asking !! No judgement , No sides

[Changian]

This paragraph from a Bangkok Post report on the Pattaya Volunteer Tourist Police last month includes all you need to know about the mindset of people who join up to serve and protect:

Mr Miller says new recruits undergo three days of training before the three-month probation period and are from countries as diverse as China, India, Norway and Pakistan. Some undergo further training to qualify as parachutists and undergo a practical pistol shooting course, said Mr Miller, although these skills are not necessary for the job. A few of them even sported badges showing they had qualified in these areas on their uniforms.

Badges, cool. Couldn't hack it as a Boy Scout, then join the Pattaya Tourist Police.

[britmaveric]

And you wonder why Howard won't have a civil discussion on TPV at TV? (mocking him with photos and being disrespectful for starters) I'm waiting for him to be burned at the stake for much to do about nothing.